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TR, I thought my dad had a bad job. Actually he does. He’s a pastor and he’s the guy that would have been called in to tell that family that their 3 year old was dead. When I first got my Jeep, he was furious. It took a few weeks to get all the forms adjusted, and in that time, he warmed up to the idea of my owning a Jeep, but only after he taught me everything he knew about driving a high profile vehicle. He was a pastor in the valley (Shenandoah valley) and had lots of four wheel driving parishners. To this day, I credit him with saving my life. Three months after he taught me not only how to drive a Jeep, but how to do so in BAD conditions, I hit black ice going into a turn. I was able to keep the Jeep in control long enough to avoid oncoming traffic and a very steep ravine. I couldn’t resist the force of momentum well enough to prevent my going off the road into the shallower part of the ravine. Even though my Jeep was destroyed, I was fine, and so were the other people on the road. I was going 30mph on an otherwise dry road. The Highway patrolman who came out said flatly that it was amazing I survived at all. I wasn’t charged for anything because everything proved that I did my best to prevent an accident at my own vehicles loss. I called my dad who came out to get me, i’m just glad somebody else didn’t have to.

Peace and TR, don’t let that trucker get hurt.

Extinct


 
What scares me after reading TR's account is that I've bought a modified Jeep 4 years ago and I still can not figure what modifications have been performed. The good thing is that I spent 3 years with this Jeep and didn't even add 50 miles to the spedo. I know the thing inside and out from a garage point of view. I just started replacing questionable parts; axles, brakes, u-joints, fuel system, etc....

Hope I'm never in that situation...

(ps: I do have an engineering degree and I still dont feel comfortable designing anything that could possibility affect my life or health. I only have the ability to analyze the modification designed by someone else. It's never worth the risk, be smart)


Archie Gallup
Bath, Maine

78 CJ-7 HT, 304 V8, 3spd, ? Lift, 33x12.5's, Rust. "JeepHeap"
79 IH Scout II, 304 V8 Auto, Stock.

Round Headlights have more fun.....
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
I own a large chunk of a hot rod suspension company, and I won't trust my life to my own welding.
I will trust my life to any of the guys that work here! They are pros, and love working for someone that nothing half A$$ed goes out the door.
We use the best of everything, and all parts like bolts and air line, and fittings are just not DOT approved, but approved for aircraft also.

I'm very proud of that fact. We risk no one for a buck.

Our kits cost about $100 more than the competition, but you get what you pay for.
Stress tested steels, Every batch, not just one, then order more of the same size.
Every fitting and every bolt, and every air line is DOT approved, most is approved for flight ratings.

We are the top of the line, and if the lives of your family, and your lives aren't worth the extra $100, then get thee to the discount houses that use cheap line and plastic fittings, and bags that self destruct when they air down....

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
 
H8monday,
I have seen the lime green YJ, it is one of those jeeps that I drool over when I see it.

I have met Jake. I was at 4wpw when they were all looking at the magazine that Jake was in and they were all congratulating him. He went on to tell me about all the things he has done to it and I was very impressed. There is very little sami left, it is mostly Toyota and Suzuki Sidekick.
What a sweet machine he has built, it deserves every bit of praise it gets.

From what I have seen, your jeep is quite nice too.

Have fun.
Mizu


 
Excellent points about mods TR, sounds like you have quite a job ahead of you with the lawsuit. It figures that the professional truck driver caught in a bad situation gets sued. Can't they sue the real cause of the accident? (The dipsh*t that was intoxicated, and speeding) Sounds frivolous to me to sue the semi-driver. Well, maybe not. You can probably squeeze more money out of his business than some drunk loser with no insurance. Can you say GREED...

I think the main problem is that people think they can drive any car like a Corvette if they are in a hurry. I know that you will never see my Jeep go over 50 unless it's on a trailer!

Anyway good luck!

Steve M
1976 CJ-7, 304, TH400, Q-Trac, 4:10's, 33x12.5 Goodyear MT's, rotten floorboards, cheesy aluminum tub overlay, you get the idea....

"Heavy guns - Reach out and touch someone"
 
After reading the aforementioned it seems that this paranoid consciousness TR seems to be perpetuating is slowly taking up the strings to weave for us all the perfect protective bubble. AM I THE ONLY ONE LEFT ON THIS PLANET WHO ISN'T SCARED SH%TLESS OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT?

This terrified way of looking at the world will soon propagate so many regulations governing our society.. YOU WILL NOT KNOW IT TILL YOU WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND THERE IS YOUR DOCTOR WIPING YOUR ASS AND FEEDING YOU GERBER BECAUSE you have just regressed back into your happy place.

The survival of off-roading will depend on our ability to fight this exact way of thinking. Our society must start taking responsibility for our own actions. These United States are hardly a war zone. Any human with any common sense and an ability to adapt to his/her surroundings has a great chance of surviving.

In no way am I implying that the above case (doing 70 mph w/40" tires) should resolve any responsibility from the driver. I think it is pretty safe to say his day will come.

I will modify my vehicle past the legal limit if that is what I desire (CT is so tightass, pretty soon you are going to need a permit to step out of your house)

TR, your plea to make the world a safe harbor is in part helping to soak up all of our rights to freedom as citizens of the greatest country there is.

i.e. There is a lake where we all used to go cliff diving and swing out from ropes. A girl fell from the rope swing and broke a couple bones because she ACCEPTED the risk. Now there is no more rope swing, no more reservior for the nearby houses to enjoy, and no more waterfall.

Intelligence, common sense, love, and a third eye to watch out for those who have neither, is all that is necessary to prevail in this world. It is so easy to blame your disposition on your environment. If anything blame it on Charles Darwin.
 
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif You have to be a little careful about where you take that line of thinking MGX1.../wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif.... After all, SOME accepted form of regulation is what makes it possible for us to actually meet and pass someone on the hiway since we have AGREED to drive on a certain side of the road./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Likewise we have AGREED to stop at a country road intersection where there is an old, rusty stop sign. Personally, I'm not in favor of making restrictions on mods to vehicles; AS LONG AS THEY ARE HALF-WAY ENGINEERED; Otherwise the guy might just as well BE driving on the wrong side of the road./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif I wouldn't put three-ply in as a floor because it could unduly splinter in a severe crash, but in your Jeep I don't worry about it because the splinters would be IN YOU and not in me or in someone else. So you see, there is a difference between a society like the one Algore wants for you and for the hapless citizens of this country; and simply AGREEING to drive on one particular side of the road; or AGREEING that everyone's brakes should actually work./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif As you can see from the results of the wreck that was noted, driving a patently unsafe vehicle IS NOT really a God-given right or a Constitutional right in this country, since it involves the potential destruction of lives and property. Agreeing to rules for survival is a very different thing than living in the pablum-fed, Geo Metro driving, gunless, riskless, GUTLESS, society that Hillary and Al want you to give them permission to foist upon the U.S./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Quadra-Trac Team./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 
Mizu,
Check out this pic.
Its taken at the top of Cadilac Hill(Rubicon).
It was taken 4th of July weekend, Joe rolled his YJ that weekend, after I had criticized him for spending money on a fancy new paint job, before spending it on a roll cage. He ended up rolling, and was lucky he or his girlfreind didnt get hurt worse, the winshield collapsed on the passenger side , but his girlfreind who wasnt buckled in, was thrown from the rig. scarry
Anyway I/we were able to talk him into installing a roll cage immediately after that.
It is a nice Jeep, Jakes mechanic Brian at Donnys has done most of the work to it, he is also running my old D30 front end with the Warn hub kit, 4.56 gears,and ARB. Those guys are a lot of fun to wheel with.
Anyway here is a pic of all of us.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
I take my Jeep "On the Rocks",usually "With a Splash of Addrenalin"
 
CJDave,
Hardly was implying a free for all. CJ, the current regulations and restrictions just within the realm of off-road vehicles are blatantly obvious and undoubtedly excessive. We are all being asked to bend down and grab the soap for anything that's sacred!
 
Jeff, I guess I don't understand your point (maybe the picture would help?)

As Magoo said below, the guy made a CHOICE to paint before adding roll bar... Should we make it a law he do the roll bar first, or should we just let him live with the consequences of his CHOICE?

Just trying to clear that up /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 
After reading all 30 or so posts I'm still unsure of the reason for this post. Ever heard the saying,"Preaching to the choir"? I'm sure you have. I feel very bad for the victims of the referenced accident, but it seems to me that ONE of the reasons people use this board is so that they don't make those kind of mistakes. I'm not sure where TR has gotten his holier than thou attitude lately, but it's getting kind of weird. It seems to me there was a certain complaint lately about taking up space with unneeded stuff...

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
http://www.off-road.com/land
Vice-Pres. Rock Garden 4 Wheelers, Farmington, NM
 
I think the point is being missed here. This is a relevant topic as well, and sometimes the choir gets out of tune, so it needs a little refreshing.

Remember the Mike, the guy that was killed from rolling down a hill on his CJ? Well, it brought the dangers of wheeling very close to home, realizing this could happen to any one of us. The same thing has happened, only this time it's on a paved way and not on a trail. All TR is saying is to watch your modifications and don't assume the stock gear is sufficient for what we do, take it into consideration when doing a mod, and do the mod correctly. Your rig can come apart at any time, heck, I would lose a wheel just going home tonight, I don't inspect them every day, but I shouldn't have to.

I'm not advocating a new set of laws on lifted or altered vehicles, there are enough out there, they should just be enforced, kinda like handguns isn't it.

I'm glad he posted this, it's a reminder of what can happen, even when it's least expected, and the resulting consequences. Take nothing for granted.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7" Lift/33" Swampers/REP 8000/RS9000's/Scout II D44's F&R w/4.10's & Lockrights
 
MagooXI,

I really wish you hadn't posted on this subject, especially in such a condescending manner. This thread will now probably turn into a ego-measuring pissing contest (and TeamRush is getting really, really good at these.) If you had been around here long enough you would know a little more about who your dealing with, and more importantly where he is coming from when he writes something like this.

I think its safe to say he was venting when he wrote the original post, and who could blame him? He spends a lot of time helping people do the job right, so that they can drive a reliable, safe vehichle. All anyone has to do is ask for a little help and he gives it without asking for anything in return except that you act responsibly. Time and again all he asks for is responsibility when making changes to your vehichle, so that people wont get hurts, and laws wont be passed that limit everybody's freedoms.

Of course after seeing what he has just seen he would come on here and write a post like that with the clear intention of scaring some sense into people! If I wasn't scared of what would happen I might consider going out and doing everything I could to make my Jeep look big and bad and never consider the safety aspects of what I'm doing. Every once in a while you have to be reminded of what can happen when you screw up. Remaining ignorant of the consequences won't make them any less severe to you and those around you.

Wait until you have children of your own, as many on this board do, and see how willing you are to stick them in your giant Jeep with weak axles and terrible steering geometry, that you could have fixed for fairly little with the information provided on this BBS.

I'll get down off my soap-box now and just hope this doesn't turn into another flaming war, although I'm sure once Aaron reads your post with your un-founded personal attacks, he will retaliate.

Restoring a '74 DJ-5C /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif It was running good, so I messed with the carb to make it run better. Now it wont run at all! /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif
 
JEEPN, I guess I saw a different post by TR then...

As I said in my post "So what's yer point?" I did not see any sugegstions of "watch out" or "we should do this"... All I saw was TR complaining and offering no resolution, suggestions, etc.

And from the tone, it sure sounded like legal action was the course he was supporting...

 
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif I didn't see TR's post in quite that way....... I saw him warning the less-technical bunch about some of the hidden dangers to just jacking up a Jeep and increasing the tire size. TR; as most of us do; TAKES EXCEPTION to someone rolling down the road in a vehicle which has been modified beyond what common sense and good engineering would allow, and endangering everyone he gets even remotely close to. TR isn't saying "Watch Out" because we ALL have to "watch out" when we do things with Jeeps that the mfg did not intend.......and some things that they DID intend. TR's post just reminded me; for one; about how far-reaching the consequences of a seemingly simple upgrade or mod can really be. I consider TR's post to be an On-Topic, Jeep-Specific post, and I don't see what all the fuss is about?/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Tracs modified While-U-Wait by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Quadra-Trac Team./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 
there is a valid point here, but the problem lies in the solution..
what are you going to do??
1) pass a law that states lifted vehicles can't go over a certian speed
2) """"lifted vehicles need certian strength axles for certian tires
3) make lifting vehicles illegal(like germany)
the problem with 1 is that if you corner an unsafe vehicle hard at 40 mph, it's more dangerous than a sencible driver doi9ng 65 down the freeway
number 2 is impossible to regulate, and thats the last thing i want anyway.
number 3 is what will happen. it is happening allready all around us and it will not get better.
as far as safety for the individual driving.. i couldn't care less.. it falls into the same ideas of helmet or seat belt laws.. i really dont care if you wear a seatbelt, but i do care if you wheel bearings finally come apart in your dana 30 and your 44" bogger hits me at 70mph.
my brakes will stop my jeep faster than stock(no comment from those who saw me rear end the sniper!). i believe that a dana 44 front axle with all new components should safely handle 35" tires.. especially since i don't drive like an idiot. driving like an idiot and lack of maintenance caused the wreck. the truck being improperly lifted isn't actually a concern since he was an accident waiting to happen anyway. the other people got hurt.. it wasn't their fault, the DRIVER is to blame.. not the truck

~~Elusive~~
tj-7..tellico tested, uwharrie safaried, FOR SALE!/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif..see it at http://www.jeepgod.net
oh yeah, and a 2000 tj, 4.0, dana 44, nv3550
 
1) pass a law that states lifted vehicles can't go over a certian speed
2) """"lifted vehicles need certian strength axles for certian tires
3) make lifting vehicles illegal(like germany)

Well, 1 wouldn't be so bad, especially if I could modify it more.

2 we already have, and it's based on tire size and GVWR of the axles. It's one of the reasons I went to the 1/2 ton Scout II axles over the jeep ones. I can go up 2 more inches legally due to the larger GVWR.

3 would be terrible, but that's the reason for 1 and 2.

The lift laws are currently left up to individual states. Imagine not having them, it would be more of a disaster than it already is. Sure, some of them are stupid, and as 4 wheelers we want what we think is best for us. But imagine the morons that just want to look cool, if they're putting tires that large on their vehicles now, what would they do without any restrictions?

driving like an idiot and lack of maintenance caused the wreck.

That's what TR has to determine. Would the steering knuckle have given out if new? Maybe a culmination of factors was involved.

the truck being improperly lifted isn't actually a concern since he was an accident waiting to happen anyway. the other people got hurt.. it wasn't their fault, the DRIVER is to blame.. not the truck

Yes, the truck was also to blame. With a properly set up suspension/steering, the knuckle would have had a better chance of surviving the turn, due to it's larger size. I understand the driver set up the truck, but if you or I were driving it, the consequences would probably still be the same (common sense comes into play here, we wouldn't have been drinking or doing 70 mph). If he had been in a Mazda Miata, he probably would have made the corner.

I think we're getting to things confused. There is a fine line between an "accident" and "negligence". An accident happens unexpectedly and unintentionally. Negligence happens through neglect (duh, right?), which means he failed to give proper attention to a particular area of the vehicle, he was reckless and careless.

Mangler:

I saw it as Dave did, a warning to us as jeepers. I guess I didn't read any more into it. Yes, it may have had a negative twist to it, but it's understandable, I knew there was more behind it than he first let on. I guess I saw the "corrections" as understood, there was no need to go into them ad nauseam.

I've been affected by "similarly built vehicles", ones that never should have been on the road, and I thank my lucky stars I still have any family left. Kinda sobering when I think about it for any length of time.

BTW, if this makes little to no sense, please forgive me, my bloodsugar is running low due to working late tonight. Coherent sentences and spelling tend to become a little befuddling, and there isn't a place to get something to eat within 15 miles.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7" Lift/33" Swampers/REP 8000/RS9000's/Scout II D44's F&R w/4.10's & Lockrights
 
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