Jim...I have the ARB in the rear of my AMC20...along with solid axles.
When unlocked...it is totally unlocked...totally open.
When you hit that switch and the air pressurizes it...it's LOCKED....just like a spool....and no clicking...

I have a Detroit Tru-Trak in the front of my D30. Quite happy with it....basically it's a limited slip but does not use plates...it has gears...no special friction additive needed. Very well manored on the street if I have the hubs locked....you almost can't tell it's there...on the trail, if I get any slip, I just need to apply a 'little' brake and any slipping more or less goes away.

I'm building up a flat top D44 (at the rate I'm going it's going to take a year)...I plan to put a full Detroit in it with locking hubs. But I 'might' go ARB if the price difference is not too much and skip the locking hubs.

 

Who is using a non-selectable front locker on a street vehicle, and what are your experiences?

Define "street vehicle"

I have a Detroit EZ (lunchbox) in the D30 w/ alloys & 297x joints... Zero issues when the hubs are unlocked on the road. OTOH, anything over 45-50mph is SCARY! (not inherently a "locker" issue )

 

My Aussie is reasonable on the road, but you know it is there. Powering through corners the front gets tight and when it comes to Icy roads I contemplate taking it out every year. It is not terrible, but it gets dicey on ice covered roads, but I also run MT tires so,,,, that could be as much the problem.

When I put together the HP 44 for the TJ I want to put a ARB in but the price makes it tough.

 

Define "street vehicle"

In the case at hand, it means licensed and insured for street driving, and not a trailer queen, although it does get trailered to distant events. It gets maybe 800 street miles and 200 trail miles a year, but the street miles include plowing snow.

 

Licensed = check
Insured = check
200 trail miles = check
800 street miles = I'm *way* too smart for that

 

Put lockouts on the hubs and you won't care what type locker you have in the front. Could be a cost savings.

:cheers:
Dale

 

800 street miles = I'm *way* too smart for that

It's been about 5 1/2 years (WOW, time flies!) since I finished the restoration, and the new speedometer shows 3900 something, so I guess that is an exaggeration. Sorry, Man.

 

JL... *I'M* way to smart to try 800 street miles in the Moss per year. Maybe with some suspension DE-tuning, a set of radials, and someone else's fuel...

Wasn't finding fault in your calculations!

I agree... lunchbox locker, unlock the hubs and even though it does ZERO for you on the street (unless your navigating a "technical" section at the house and need 2low)... twinsticks (hey, why not? you've got all the other goodies )

 

Wow.... Even my junk (both of them) get 1,500 to 2,000 miles per year on them each, the Scrambler may be a little less (no snow plowing involved). Maybe that is because I just don't want to drive the work truck on weekends unless A/C is required.

Put on some locking hubs and then just use a lunchbox locker in the front. Even better if you twin stick the transfer case. Trust me you will enjoy the difference after you get used to it.

:cheers:
Dale

 

I don't want to put unlocking hubs n the front. I like to keep things as simple as practical so there's less to maintain and less to break. I was mainly wondering how a front locker would behave in 2wd - apparently it will still cause problems. So I'll probably just leave it open. It looks like the only good alternative would be an ARB, and that's entirely too much complilcation for me to be comfortable. An E-locker would fit my concept of simplicity, but they only come with 3.90-and-up carriers.

As for other goodies, I really don't have any. The drive train is stock as far as the functionality goes except for the rear locker, and I'm not entirely happy with that. The clunking and clanging, the changing directions, the chirping tires, decreased gas mileage and increased tire wear don't seem to be worth the slight increase in off-road capability. But I haven't had it very long, so I may change my mind.

 

You could always put it in the front, see if you like it and if you don't, put the spider gears back in and sell the locker. You only have to pull one axle shaft to install or uninstall it. You can usually find a deal on a lockright on ebay if you keep watching for one.

 

Life is sometimes more complicated than you wish Jim.

Hubs are cheap and easy.

I'm the most lazy old fool that you know.

Yet you doubt the simplicity.

All in how you think about it or wish to use it.

Lockers on both ends, drive anywhere you wish (avoid ice with a Detroit in the rear), shift the front in/out on the fly on the trail, no load in the front when you unlock the hubs (fuel savings). And mostly you have all the oars in the water when you need them (locked both ends).

:cheers:
Dale


:cheers:
Dale

 

I have to agree with Dale on all counts. While the odds are low that you would ever break a Warn hub, it has happened. I ran the OEM Warn Lock-O-matics until the outer spindle nut backed of and boogered the hub... then ran a *plastic* OEM hub from a '73 Waggy for a while. Currently have a set of Warn "premiums". Still never broke one while wheeling... and the drive slugs take up a bunch of room in the toolbox! :laugh:

 

I broke 3 warn premiums last year, but I certianly wasn't plowing snow...

I also agree. lockright in the front with hubs. easy. cheap. effective.
I run ARB's front and rear, but you have to use them a lot to make them worth the cost.

 

A selectable locker is like the perfect wife!

When you've had enough you can switch it off!



Now that I've had a few selectables I'll never go back. (Still looking for that wife though.)

Jim - ARB really isn't all that much more complicated. You'll have on board air anyway, right?

 

Nope, no onboard air. My Jeep is pretty close to stock. D44s are the only significant powertrain mod, and they're stock width.

I wish someone could explain the logic of air activation. You need a compressor, electric motor, pressure switch, regulator, filter, reservoir, drain valve and wiring just to get the air. Then you need switches, electric valves, hoses and a diaphragm or piston to work the locker. And what really gets me is that they need 90 PSI to operate, but more than 115 PSI endangers the seals. It all seems like Rube Goldberg engineering. Particularly where a switch, wire, coil and armature will do the job.

 

It's simple really, especially if you go with the ARB compressor.
A small compressor under the hood with an integral motor, on top of it is 2 solenoids.It's small and can fit most anywhere.

On the dash is 2 more switches.

Activate the compressor power switch, the compressor charges up - about 8-10 seconds. When you aren't going to use the locker you leave it off - that's most of the time.

When you want the diff locked - hit the other switch, it opens a solenoid to let air go to the locker. Takes about 2 seconds. Now you are locked.
To turn it off, turn off the locker switch, the solenoid opens and bleeds the air out of the line to the locker, another 2 seconds. Fast, easy, simple to use.
The small solenoids is mounted on the compressor.
If you have ARB's on both ends, still just one compressor but with one more solenoid and one more switch - one for each end.

The nice advantage is like when maneuvering before you tackle a hill. Leave it off (open), it steers easy to get in position. Then when you are ready, hit the locker switch - you can make the hill when an open diff won't. Yes, it really does make a difference.
At the top, turn it off so you can turn to follow the trail.

If it's a lunchbox you have trouble getting lined up, then at the top you again have it fighting you to turn. To negate it you have to get out and unlock a hub - a PITA.

The hardest part about installing an ARB - deciding where to drill the hole for the airline - and bending the copper line inside to fit. But the instructions are clear. First one may take you an hour.

The biggest problem most folks have, they let the airline dangle from the body to the axle - it catches on things and snaps off. Just tie it up out of the way! Seems like they won't listen!

No on board air? Shame on you! The ARB compressor can double as OBA too - all you need is a quick coupler and hose.

The price isn't really all that much higher considering.

Electric lockers - I've heard good and bad, I have no experience with them.

My '03 Rubi has air lockers - stock. The difference is they are low pressure. They only use tiny compressors that are about 8 lbs pressure. $260 each!

ARB and the Rubi - When they lock, they are totally locked, not a partial lock like limited slip or others that do what they feel like doing at the time. They stay locked until you command them to unlock!

The difference off road? 2 wheel drive (open - one wheel on each end) vs a true 4 wheel drive. Night vs. day!

If you have an air tank you refill (PITA) - you can use a regulator on it to supply the air to the ARB. It doesn't use much volume, just the pressure.

It wants about 90 lbs, too much pressure can pop the seals inside - but filling a raft, air mattress or balloon you have the same problem. Use a regulator.

 

Sometimes you don't want it locked, like sneaking around boulders, twisting and turning up a wash etc. Sometimes you need it, then you don't, then you do, then you don't - think how many times you'll jump in and out to turn on, then off, then on, then off the hub?
That alone makes my decision. I no longer "jump" in and out, it's more like a painful stagger!

You have the best of both worlds with a selectable - from the driver's seat!

 

Yeah, I'd really like selectable on both ends, but my brain fries crispy thinking about all that complexity to do a simple job. Even though the ARB compressor is self-contained, it still has all of that stuff, and failure of any one of a dozen components will disable the system. I'd go electric if Detroit made them for 3.54 gears. A wire, a switch, another wire and a solenoid. That's simple.

As for not having OBA, wheeling here is probably quite different from what you get into. I doubt that I'm ever more than a couple miles easy walk to a highway, so a breakdown isn't life-threatening. And I almost never wheel alone, and never alone more than a half mile from civilization. Also I don't air down radically to wheel - 15 PSI or so. If I get a flat the tire's going to be toast. OBA won't help. It's the spare or nothing.

One of these days I may get around to it - I have a brand new compressor that JYG gave me a year ago, but there have been more pressing chores to deal with. OBA is pretty far down the list.

 

Jim,
I have cycled my ARB's literally thousands of times and to date I have had one solonoid failure ( I ordered 2 and carry a spare now) and I had to re-seal the front locker once, but the axle had sand, dirt, etc in it. My compressor needed a rebuild after only 7 years or service in the jeep.
ARB has incredible cunstomer service. I ordered the ARB seal and compressor rebuild kit tuesday night and the parts were on my doorstep the next day.
I also had a chromoly axleshaft explode insde the rear ARB and I couldnt get the piece out or remove the ARB. I had to cut the arb bearing surface off to get it out of the jeep. The entire case half was shipped to me for $80 and I got it in 2 days. They included a set of seals and air fitting grommets for free. They have also mailed me air grommets and fittings for free when I called and tried to order them.
ARB's aren't cheap, but customoer service like that is why I was willing to pay for the initial investment. Blow up a detroit and your just screwed.
I actually priced every part for the d-44 ARB and they do NOT charge a premium for them. it's the same cost to assemble it yourself as it is to buy the entire locker.
Like Rich said, most ARB failures are from a crappy installation. I did once drive in deep enough snow that it pushed the line up into the exhaust manifold and melted it, but I have never had one torn off.