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ok..first things first...i have about 15000 into my 84 cj-7 over the past 10 years.....but with that said, let me address something that has been bugging me here..everytime someone asks a question like"what axles should i use?" everyone sez "go get currie" or something like that..or even what seats..."buy new"..i agree that sometimes nothing compares to the quality of new parts, but often that is not the case..ever replace a windshield by yourself?? it's only flat safety glass..ever make a wiring harness for your jeep? almost anyone with a few evenings and a good sevice manual can. why do people buy brand new radiators for their jeeps? or aluminum? i see the point about"not having to hassle with it", but the only time i EVER hassle with my radiator is when i shove something through it..there is no way anyone should ever have to buy new rims, between ford jeep and dodge, there are enough aluminum and chrome rims in the world to shod every jeep ever made..if they look crappy, polish them. while quadratech is a fantastic place for extremely hard to find parts, i think people are using it cause they are too lazy to go to the junkyard...
now i'm rambling...sorry..


~~Elusive~~
it's sort of still a cj thingy....
 

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To a certain extent this is true, but it does not pertain to everyone. I have done all the mods myself, in my yard, with minimal tools and between rain storms. I am sure a lot of others are the same way. Personally I like doing it this way, it gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment. I also like running with the people that have $50K invested and being able to do just as well (or better than some).

When a question, such as what axle to buy, arises, if a cost limit is not included, the best answer will be given, regardless of cost. If someone asks what the cheapest route to upgrade their axles would be, and they describe what they have and what direction they're heading, then the answer will reflect that. I did this when buying my lift. I called many different companies, and found a very helpful fellow at Desert Rat. He took the time to answer my questions and actually listen to me. When I mentioned what I had for a rig (stock '81 CJ-8, 151, SR-4), he recommended one particular 4" lift. When I mentioned the mods I would make (winch, 350, SM465, NP205, D44's with 35's), he said the lift would suck and I'd hate it, so he specified a different one. The lift sucked before I made the mods, but it works much better now.

So part of the key rests with the person making the post, providing enough information. If cost is an issue, make mention of it at the beginning of the post. I have in the neighborhood of $4K invested in the Scrambler (2 years), including the purchase price, and I'm proud of it. We don't have a lot to spend, as most people, but we make due. Sure, we have 5 jeeps, but only one of them is a daily driver, so guess which one gets repaired first and which ones sit for months. Also on the converse, if you're going to make a mod, you don't have the money to make it again, so you want it to be right the first time. It might take a little more money up front, but it won't be addressed again.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205/7" Lift/33" Swampers/D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif VERY good answer, Jeep "N"... It's true that lot of Jeep guys have more money than time, and that's OK. Also, not everybody has patience enough to do a frame-up restoration in their garage. Also, some neighborhoods just simply don't permit Jeep work, like maybe apts, where as soon as you turn your back the stuff is stolen. EVERYBODY does it a little different, and it would be hard to say who is right or wrong. Some projects turn out better, but most work at least OK. If the truth were known it's almost harder to job out all the work because then you have to concern yourself with what has to go first, then next, etc, all the while dragging the half-done Jeep here and there to have work done, etc....AND put up with other people's mistakes. Just because you paid for it doesn't mean it was done right. When I read a post on this board I try to get some idea about where the Jeeper is as far as ability, finances, and available mechanical resources. There is no sense attempting an engine swap in the front yard of a condo, but on the other hand, getting in slightly over their head on a viable project is the best way to really learn something./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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You cannot tell some of these people anything. It is not what they do to the truck it is how much they spend. They have to have the best like the dana 60 which is a overkill for 99.9 % of the rigs. Alot to do not understand the 20 is a good axle till it breaks, which maybe never. My pet peave is the advance adapter steering conversion. It is $700 for a bracket, then they go looking at every CJ for a saginaw box when every Gm in the yard has one then those who go for the arg box which is $400. I did my whole conversion for $125 and it will last twenty years. I love junkyards you can buy your 60 for $1500 I get them all day $75.Rear disc check out the cadallics. I only have $700 in mine. King of cheap My opinion only

Ya know where I live, All flames are welcome, just be nice
brownbagg
 
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I agree with elusive. I refrain from asking alot of questions because many people respond with the most expensive aftermarket solution when I would rather take the approach that JEEPN has, make it yourself and find it in junk yards. I know it's hard to determine what type of person is asking a question like do they have a garage, shop with tools and time to accomplish certain projects and how much $ are they willing to spend but ask yourself what you would do. That is how I answer questions on the fews things I know about because if I've done it,I'll tell what is the safest, cheapest and best way (IMO) to do a particular mod. But when my model 20 is gone a $4K Currie HP is not an option for me. I seem to remember alot of post when something breaks the advise is GO EXTREME with the easiest most expensive solution.

Like when I was doing my front 44 swap, I needed to know how to convert bolt patterns and use good hubs and strong brakes. My answer was ship it to Currie or Dynatrac. So I called and asked how much and got quotes b/w $4-5K and I still had to ship the axle across the country. So I figured it out on my own and I'm finally close to getting it done (after 8 months).

I guess my point is answer questions on what you would do......

Lee

/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif
 
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There are times to skimp and there are times not to skimp. Junk yards and other used part sources are great for alot of things. It all depends on what your goal is. If it's a complete resto, go for the new shiny stuff. If it's for everyday, if the junkyard has it, why not; stuff like seats, brackets, bumpers, trim, switches and other stuff should work just fine. I usually stay away from mechanical or electric stuff from junkyards. For example, alternators, starters, power steering, etc, get them new or rebuild your own. If you need a wiring harness it might be more difficult to rip out one from a junk yard rather than ordering one. On some things it's better to spend a little more now to save the same or more later. I love those "pick and pull" type of yards, that way you know what the part came off of and how it looked before it came off.

 
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I for one am glad that somebody spoke up about this money thing. No matter where you go or what you do, every body thinks your made of money. "That will only cost you $3500 please" Yeah, o.k. let me sell my left nut. I am sure there are alot of shadetree mechanics here that have to scrimp and save every penny that they can in order to buy a set of spark plugs. I for one am that way. I have a two year old, one on the way and I am doing my project in the driveway between rain storms and when I have the few extra bucks. It's not easy to do things this way, but that is the only way I can do it and it is really frustrating when you ask advice and someone tells you to spend a boat load of money that you dont have. I want to do my jeep the right way the first time but the cash just wont allow it. So, I guess what I am saying is... Not every body is allowed an unlimited expense account to play with their jeeps. Take that into consideration when you suggest spending $4000 to fix an axle.

Cut to shape, hammer to fit, paint to match /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
Project '51 willy's total rebuild /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif
 
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Well, I guess I'll throw my $.01 in here (see I'm already short changing you a penny)
Other than the cost of my Jeep, I only have about $1200 invested in it. And my new tires were half of that.
I subscribe to a mailing list for those of us on a "Taco Bell" budget. It's the [email protected] list that was started by someone from the Jeep-L.
I always look for the cheapest way to get the job done.....

_____________________
John
95.5 YJ with "stuff"
http://SonsofThunder4x4.com
 

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Necessity is the Mother of Invention is the truth. When the open stock axles were holding me back from wheeling, I made my own dual E-brake assembly. It was easy and cheap, just seemed to work, even though I had never done one before. Recaro seats? How about the ones from a VW Rabbit, they're comfy, just fab some mounts. When a friend wanted to go wheeling and wouldn't fit in the Scrambler, I found a way to move the seat back 6" so he could fit (he's 6'8" and 350 lbs, and working on his own early CJ-5) How about the hard top? Tired of slamming it everywhere but also tired of taking the bolts in and out? How about $12 worth of boat latches for a homemade quick release system that still seals out water and is just as tight. It's amazing what we can do when pressed for money or time. I didn't have the money to cut an axle down for the front of the Scrambler, so I made my own mounts to move the springs outside the frame. I have to say you couldn't buy one as good, or as tough, or for only $40.

From what I have seen on this board, very few actually have the money to go out and slap some Currie High Pinion 9" axles with ARB's and discs under the 'ole CJ. Granted some do, but let's face it, we're mostly a bunch of backyard mechanics sharing knowledge so we can measure twice and cut once, the first time. From what I have seen, a lot of the answers ARE geared towards the low-buck jeeper. Some of the mods are out of my league, but then again I may just be too chicken to try them. I use the caster correction for a D44 as an example. I know someone on here did their own, but if I screw it up, I'm dead in the water, so I probably won't try it. My alternatives? Have someone else do it ($$$), or live with it the way it is and make due. Sure, I'd love to drop a 350 in place of the 151 I have now, but I'm too sensible for it. I need tires on the TJ ($600) and Trooper ($875), so it'll have to wait, the family comes first.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205/7" Lift/33" Swampers/D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
 

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Dudes, there's lots of situations together here /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif :

The internet is a big place. Some people with families and jobs, scrounging junkyards when they can to build their jeeps and keep shoes on their kids, some guys with big bucks who sit in the corner office, mail ordering their jeep axles at $4000 each not thinking twice, and everyone inbetween. Some guys want a nice looking jeep, some guys think that's crap, and it's function only. Some guys like to scrounge junkyards, build it, and sell it when it's done, to do it all over again, some guys like to drive it, and just fix it when it breaks. Some guy may work somewhere at $4 an hour, some guy may work in LA or some big city making 6 figures... and on and on and on.

Keep an open mind that ALL sorts of people are out here. Put as much info in your question as you can "Money is an issue." "I don't care how it looks." etc. And know that you may get an answer from every person in the above range. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Pete

88YJ,4"susp,33"BFGMT,9kwinch,homemade swingout,258,999,4.10,weber32/36,GMHEI,one moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 
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/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifIsn't part of the jeepin thing to daydream about what you want, rather than what you can afford? /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifWhen reality hits, I can't afford a 3k Curry axle either... at least not without scrimping and saving and missing a few meals for a LONG time.

I simply don't have enough tech experience to set up an axle. Not only that, I don't have time break down on a trail... Nor do I want to impose on someone I don't know to fix it. If I can't do it, it's going to a shop.

To date, I've only got 1500 into the thing, but Wednesday will change that.. (new rims and tires)... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Most of the rims were paid for by my wife telling my family to get me gift certs for America's Tire Company (a sub-division of Discount)... does that count? It's still money spent!/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

This board has both saved me and cost me a lot of money... and that's why I'm here!/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Another Jeepgeek!
Jon YJ94
 
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one of the things that ticks me off the most is when people critisize others for either what they have or maybe how they choose to put together their jeep. every one of us knows that if we had a million dollars, we would be using the best parts we could find. a good point is made about the environment that people have to work in be it a garage or an apartment complex. So maybe the millionare can afford front and rear dana 60's from dynatrac with dual arb's a tpi chevy 350, in cab adjustable rancho 9000's, atlasII tcase, nv4500 tranny (with the granny low first, and all chromoly tie rods and linkages, but doesnt know how to change a spark plug. I wouldnt give a penny to get rid of these people. because they are the ones who make me smile the biggest when they get stuck or break down and have know idea what to do next. at least they are out there, and they will learn just like the rest of us did, it will just cost them a little more. those who can set up their own gears get to hook up the strap and pull him out. anyway, there are a lot of different situations out there and people jeep the only way they know how. not everyone was brought up with a dad who was a mechanic and taught them everything they knew. I am in college, and although my jeep was paid for, all the mods and repairs come out of my pocket. so i am learning to do things on my own. I could do a lot more if the resources were there such as welders and tools. I think we should just be happy to have a variety of different people in four-wheeling to make things interesting. anyway, whether the advice is for people with loads of money, or a shadetree mechanic... thanks, it all helps keep jeepin alive.

'95 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
33"s, snorkel, 1000+ RTI, Warn xd9000i
 

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ok.. who crammed a spark plug up elusives butt? must be one of his students, again. well ill add my rantings also... i believe in doing it yourself.. no matter how.. of course i prefer the cheapest way.. but yes if i had a million dollars i would be getting my d60 from ole boy back home for a axle swap. yep.. money wouldnt change me that much. To much statisfaction in doing it myself.. kinda like driving to the trail.. doing the trail.. and driving home. well ill get off this... and head to work now.. i know i made no real point here.. but just do it yourself.

survival is instinct, but living takes guts
 

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I don't have too much $$$.

I spent it all on my Jeep.

P.S. I have a son in college and my daughter will be too this fall. Somewhere along the line, my wife and I got the idea that we should put them both through college so they'll have the same advantage as everyone else. This is the reason my Jeep is rather stock and I put the snow blade on it to make it "a usefull tool". Just wait till 4 years from now, Dudes!

Loose nut behind the wheel
Another right-wing conservative.....
Born and raised in Jeep-Town
 
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I agree with most of what has been said. I started as one of the people who had no clue and no money.
I learned from LOTS of mistakes. Now I build my own axle housings and can set up ARB's. I still own
the Jeep I made all my mistakes on and am slowly fixing them.
One other thing to keep in mind is sometimes you save money in the long run by spending more up front.
I know of a guy that said $750 for a wide ratio t-18 rebuilt already adapted was too much money(from a
local shop). He said he could do it cheaper himself. He spent $150 for the tranny, then $500 for the adapter,
Found out he had the wrong case so that was another $75. Then found out the wrong input, that was another
$75. Then had to rebuild it and put it together. Had $200 into rebuild kit and misc. parts (I think he had
a bad gear). So he totalled it up and had $1,000 into his cheap tranny. The moral is think ahead and
research thoroughly before laying out money on any parts. Especially one that seems like a good deal.
Of course he learned a lot in the process. Nickmil.

 

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not really responding, just some ramblings about my hobby (i mean obsession):

i learned awhile ago that more/faster/bigger is not always better, and the fun and enjoyment for me is in the process (of building my jeep) not the finished product. (it never will be finished) some of my projects start at "Johnny's U-Pull-it's" and others start with Mr. VISA.

but when you look on the "greener side of the fence" (for to long) and focus on the end results, you will always be left wanting more. I think that more seems better, but when i get more it doens't seem to be enough. to Quote "Guns 'n' Roses" who said it good, "i used to do alittle, but a little wouldn't do it, so the little got more and more".

3/4tonYJ
My Jeep Page
 
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See, what a lot of folks fail to realize is that overbuilt $50,000 machines are necessary for some fools to overcome their total lack of driving skill. A buddy of mine just returned from a big run with tons of 60 front & rear Jeeps, & his little rustbucket on mostly stock stuff. He ran rings around most of those idiots (the video proves it). Now, that's not to say that everyone with big $$ mods is an idiot who can't drive. But, it does point out that all those mods aren't necessarily necessary. Take a trip to Colorado sometime when there is NOT an event going on. Most of the local CJ's run around on 31's or /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gifeven smaller! Most are open front & rear with spring-over axles VERY rare. A decent driver doesn't need anything more than that for 95% of the trails out there. But, if you plan on the other 5%.................

BTW, I personally find myself skimping on some items, but not on others. One area that will always receive whatever $$$ it takes is my tires. Granted, I run in competition, but I think it's fair to say for most 4-wheeling that on a $$ vs. performance basis, premium tires (appropriate for your need) are the best money spent.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Loosenut.....where you really excell is in the purchase department. Your equipment buys have been, well......exceptionally economical, to understate it./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gifHeh heh...our Yalie graduates in May "00, and our Art College kid in May '01. After that, well.....we MAY just have more spendable dough to dump into Jeeps. In retrospect, however, almost everytime we thought we had it picked out of a catalog and were ready to send the check, this BBS taught us another way, and we saved, saved, saved, saved,.....well, you get the idea./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 
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Ok.....I kinda agree with this all...I have 1 more year of college and have done 99% of my jeep my self....didn't know how to set the clearances in the crank....end play etc......that the only thing. I really enjoy fabricating parts and using my imagination. I hope there never comes a day whe there is not enough time in my schedule to design Jeep parts and make things better and original! Maybe I should take my engineering degree to chrysler??? hmm...the I could work on Jeeps the rest of my life and get paid for it! As for alluminum radiators...I had to go with one, but bought a generic one, and fabbed some brackets...got $200 into it....the rest of the high performance stuff I bartered, traded, retraded, swapped, fabricated and found! There is something more valuble in a bumper that you made from scratch than a creit card bill and 1/2 hour of installation. My whole Jeep was built on initiative and pure blood sweat and tears......PEACE

~~TIM~~

CJ-7 10"lift

 
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Good points. I am a cheapo, I admit it. I know two people that are spending 9K and 11K to dana 60 their wranglers. WOW!. Sometimes people get so into the rigs that they forget about the beauty of just being out there! Heck, if I can't make it, hopefully I get close enough to walk and see it! Just use 'm, fix 'm and use 'm again! KEn

http://members.home.net/nosweat/
 
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