1. No good deed goes un-punished.
2. Non Iligitimus carborundum.

Good Jeepin'

Larry

 

I think everyone is correct in what they said about the Ethan virus. Teamrush, I don't know squat about engines, ignitions and so much of that other stuff that you know so well. I'm a computer guy. The problem is in the confusing terminology tossed around by us PC's guys. I hate to snip emails, I usually end up pulling things out of context, I will try to do it this time properly.
"This virus is not self replicating, so it's distribution has to be done manually." What is Self-replicating? A good example is the Miissa Virus. It would create new email messages to people in your address book. "distribution has to be done manually" What this means is: I manually open or create a document (remember, Milissa would be doing this on it's own) the virus surreptiuosly attaches itself to the file.
"I was unaware about it." What this means, is that your network guy is doing a good job, and his isn't. Your running an Anti-Virus program and he is not. Without a anti-virus program, he would have never known. Of course, by stating this, I looked at his response in the original thread. It looked like he was trying to make amends for his mistake. So, I believe he did it unintentionally, when manually creating the attachement.
He should have been running an Anti-Virus program. To me, AV programs are common sense, It's my fault if I leave my guarddown and get hit with a virus that destroys my information. Other people should not have to deal with my lack of AV protection, by getting a virus sent by me, becuase my AV was non existant.
I really hope I did not step on anyones toes here.

 

Arron,
Actually, I've studied computer viruses, and some of those guys are amazing. I actually modeled one of my first programs after a virus I read about and got the code for. It was an ugly hodgepoge of a program, but as I got better at de-coding virii, I found some that were sheer genious. One, slowly ate away at your hard drive's free space every time you re-booted your computer. It was called the half virus. Every time it reduced your free space by half, it left a message on the screen. The best part of it was that the program loaded itself entirely into memory, and only took up 1024 BYTES of storage. I still haven't figured it out and its been 5 years. But believe it or not, it was because of a virus that I got my first job. I never actually wrote a virus to distribute, but I did write a few decoy's and backdoors.
Today with the Word Macro viruses, the worst I've seen them do is not let you print... Microsoft has come up with several productive stragities to keep macro's from running amock, and people are more interested with getting information rather than wrecking somebody's computer. If you ask me, Windows98 is a virus... Its soo full of holes that it does itself harm.../wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Oh well... Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

I told you people to stop with the "no illegitimate carburetors" comments, ok? /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

 

Hey there bfeller I don't know squat about computers would the short simple version be that it won't hurt your computer?

 

Fl Mud CJ,
We have a disk here with 15,000 live viruses on it.
Our computer guy uses it for new, custom definitions.

There are at least 25 macro viruses on it that do every thing from making your CD's eject every time you activate them, to DELETING THE 'C' DRIVE....
I'd say that deleting your hard drive is a bad thing!

WORD macro viruses aren't as destructive as those that destroy your BIOS, or self replicate and forward themselves to everybody that has, or will, come into contact with your computer, but they are serious anyway...

But if your C drive is deleted, how dead is dead?
Aren't you just as injured as if it had been fatal?
It's like debiting how much of a part someone had in a murder... The victim is STILL JUST AS DEAD, so guilty is guilty, no matter if they guy ONLY used a knife instead of a gun...

If this guy didn't do it with forethought and malice, I gave him a way to bow out gracefully, but he chose to be a wise ass...

As for computer virus writers, they are no different than graffiti 'Taggers', They can't do real art, so they screw things up for the rest of us.
Like biological terrorists, can't do any real good in medicine, so they do harm.
Like Street punks, they can't get on the police force or into the military, so they run around doing drive by shootings...
I have no use for the loosers, and I have no admiration for anything they can do either.
That's like saying, " I know he killed 3 people with a rusty hammer, but we should only give him two years because he sings so well..."

If they could do real programming, they would own their own company, or work for some place like Microsoft and have million dollar stock options.

It's the same old adage, 'If you are not part of the solution, You ARE the problem'
Not PART of the problem, the problem it's self.
I don't differentiate between one cancer cell and another.
I don't differentiate between 'pre cancerous tumor, and cancerous tumor'.
They are all tumors, and need to be destroyed.

I'm not mad at you Fl Mud CJ, you have been nothing but polite and helpful, and I can see why you feel the way you do, but I don't share your feelings.

I just feel really strongly about this subject.
Urban rot has to be dealt with like a cancer, no amount is acceptable, and everyone should be accountable for his or her actions., with no excuses.
Zero tolerance.

It's like convicting someone of computer hacking, doing millions of dollars worth of damage, giving them probation, and letting them go to work for someone making a ton of money supposedly stopping what they used to do...
They should be forced to reveal all of their techniques for hacking to the professionals, or rot in jail, and should never receive any type of compensation for their criminal ways.
Never be allowed to use that information for profit.

Guess I'm not a liberal...

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

Steelerfan. You mean the ethan virus? Will the ethan virus not hurt your PC? Or viruii in general? Most virus's cause problems. The whole situation that is being discussed has cause problems. TeamRush probably could have been working instead of asking his computer guy "what the heck the Ethan Virus was doing." ScoutsMotorsports would not have been embarrassed. Will this virus turn your PC into a smoking wreck, like ignoring TeamRush's advice on building up a AMC 360, No. Differnet variations of this virus abound, one try'e to delete a particular file, another tries to put text into documents you created in MS Word, yet another tries to disable the macro warnings in Office. All of these are certianly troubling and time consuming situations to fix. The variations tend to use the a file called normal.dot, which is a template, normally that template can't be repaired. Replaced, but not repaired. Think of this normal.dot being a template that you would use to make valve cover gasket. You may have made changes to the factory template, to make custom gaskets. If this template is infected, unless you have a backup, you have to toss the infected one away, get your stock template and modify it again. then you have to make sure that the template doesn't get infected again. All of which can be a RPITA.

 

I wish someone had put OT at the top of this post! /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

84 CJ7 / 258

 

Arron,

I myself own a small computer company that I run on the side and do consulting work and networking. It hasn't been steady, or very profitable, but its fun, and means I have a backup if my family's history of Diabetes catches up with me and grounds me from flying ever again.

The first program I wrote was an operating system. The first computer I built with off the shelf parts was faster and cost half as much as any of the name brand computers. I'm basically a natural at computers. I don't type all that fast, so programming isn't my forte', but I can read sourse code and actually execute it in my head. The reason people used to write virii was to challenge themselves. Some deranged highschooler locked himself into his bedroom and started coding to see what he could do to the "Pro's" software. Years later, after examining his predicessor's software, its strengths, its weaknesses, he designes a better operating system.

How do you build a better engine? Do you pull a graduate from MIT and hand him a computer and have him CAD/CAM a totally new concept, or do you pull a wrench-head from a local university who's got a nitrous 454 in his street machine?

What about your dist-gear oiler? You found a weakness in design. To totally exploit it, you would run the AMC at high RPM with a rusty distributor to see exactly how long it will run before it self-destructs, and how badly the damage can be. Then you design your MIG tip oil jet as a fix.

The fix is the easy part, finding the fault is the hard part, and that is what 95% of virii author's are trying to do. Its like treehuggers spiking trees to prevent slash and burn ops, or a pair of good'ole boys tearing up a farmers pasture because he left the gate open and there were no 'no tresspassing' signs. To find a problem, you must challenge the rules. To prove to the masses that the problem you found is real, you do something to attract attention. What's the best news? A fuzzy bunny crosses the road unscated, or a computer virus cripples the eastern section of the internet.

As for the word macro virii, in Office 97 and later, before any macro is executed, a warning screen pops up and alerts the user that the current document contains a macro, and has the option to unconditionally not execute it.

but then again, what do I know... I don't have 10 years in the industry beacuse I'm only 21. or do I?

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

bfeller,

I own the joint, so taking care of a virus on our network IS MY JOB.
I was at work when I was talking to our network man.
I'm not completely computer illiterate either...
I'm not a network engineer, or a top notch programmer, but I get by pretty well, and I employ one of the best engineers and programmers I have ever seen.
The term my network guy uses for me is, "Power User"... And I wear that badge proudly considering where it came from.

Also, my abilities are not limited to one field.
I was described in the local new paper as, "A True Renaissance Man" in a recent article about local business men that had made good.

I'm also taking issue with your actions, bfeller...
I don't like being told what I should, and should not be doing with my time.
Especially by someone that does not know me, or what my situation is.

This is a metered response that didn't get personal, like telling me what I should be doing, or doing with my time... Which is personal...
=======================

If scoutmotorsports didn't want to be embarrassed, he probably should have kept his mouth shut, and not been a wise ass.
I don't take too kindly to smart asses, especially when they have cost me time and money.

Like I said repeatedly, I gave the guy a way out, but he CHOSE to be a wise ass.
Now I choose to call him on it, and rake him across the hot coals awhile...
I didn't make it personal by insulting his manhood or mother or anything like that, I didn't fabricate anything, and I didn't jump to any conclusions.

It was a metered response to a distasteful situation.
I'm a firm believer in ACCOUNTABILITY....
I am holding him accountable for his actions, both in posting a live virus, and for his flippant response to my notifying him of his actions.

If his computer abilities are so lacking he can't use an anti-virus program to scan incoming downloads, he really needs to refrain from sending anything out, and certainly should read something before he comments on it.
---------------------------------





"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

Fl Mud CJ, I wasn't trying to insult you, I just don't agree with your views on viruses or virus writers.

Finding ways to screw up someone elses systems is one thing, but turning them loose is an entirely different matter.

If you find a weak spot, buy all means, explore it, BUT, make some money off of it by pointing it out the company that wrote the program so it can be fixed in later versions...
Don't just kill as many computers as you can just to make a point... That's just plain wrong, and it shows something is wrong with you on a very basic level.
Normal, thinking people don't try to destroy property of people they don't even know.

I can completely ruin every engine I come into contact with, every car in every parking lot, every car that is parked on the street... But does that mean it's right in any way for me to do just because I can?
It takes me about two seconds, and about two cents to do the deed...
Should I, just to make the auto makers safeguard against an artificial threat?
What about the thousands of people that have to pay up to $4,500 each for new engines?
Is it their tough luck that just because they were parked where they were, they should pay for my anti-social behavior?

Why should the rest of us have to pay for the anti-social behavior of virus writers...?....

Virus writers are cowards, and loosers in my opinion.
I have no use for anyone that isn't trying to pull forward with the rest of us...

Sorry if you don't agree,
And this is by no means a personal attack on you because you believe differently, it is absolutely your right to believe what ever you want to.
Sorry if I made it sound otherwise.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

I am not going to try to inflame this any more, but since this all started off of my post and the document in question was posted to me (yes, I know everyone else can open it), I feel like I should (well, maybe I shouldn't, but I am going to) add my $0.02.

First let me say that I agree that basic virus protection is essential to any one on the net. Period. And I am not trying to ding TeamRush, escalating this on the board and alerting ScoutsMotorsport was absolutely the right thing to do.

However, the first time that I read the post from TeamRush, I also thought he was accusing ScottsMotorSports of deliberately sending in this virus. While TeamRush did say "almost always passed on knowingly by the sender" he also said "(t)his virus is not self replicating, so it's distribution has to be done manually." While that may be true in the strictest sense, I thought it sounded harsh, and very much like an accusation.

To be fair, this virus propogates buy attaching itself (as has been correctly pointed out in other posts here) to the Normal.dot template in Word. It then attaches to all subsequent documents created. While it doesn't self-replicate, it does propogate. I think that "manual distribution" over states the way this virus spreads. It attributes malice to the sender, where ignorance seems to be more the case.

I only wanted to point some of this out so that the message trying to be conveyed doesn't get lost:
Being on the net without virus protection is like being on the trail without tow hooks.

Get and use virus protection.

'74 CJ-5
Send Money
...and a beer

 

I wasn't accusing anyone of deliberately spreading the virus.

I WAS accusing scoutmotorsport of being stupid by not using an Anti-virus program in the second post, after he wised off trying to make like he had an excuse for passing a virus that has been around sense early '97.
Three years is a lifetime in the software world, and it's 6 lifetimes in the anti-virus world.

I didn't accuse anyone of doing it intentionally.
I'm very direct, if I suspected scoutmotorsports, I would have said I though he did it intentionally.
I suspect where ever he got the document from initially was infected when they created the document, that means who ever created the document was a dumb ass too.

The point is, I tried to give facts about the virus, where it's point of origin was for the BBS, and exactly where it was.
I posted warnings on the BBS, and I notified the BBS administrators, (they will get around to it in three or four months),
and I notified the sender through his listed e-mail and his BBS private mail account.

It is a manually replicated virus, it does not send it's self out to everyone on your contact list.
I didn't open it in WORD, so my infection was minimal.
Word Pad or Note Pad aren't macro capable, so it didn't invade my systems.
It did, however, cost me 1 hour and 45 minutes while the virus scanner ran all drives, and made sure nothing else was infected on the network.
It did cost me 2 hours of my network engineers' time.
And the network was down for over 2 hours because of the virus, so I had 22 office people sitting on their thumbs that still got paid...

Who do you think cause all those problems?
Who should I bill for that down time and aggravation?
Not to mention having to take crap from the guy that posted the virus !!!
Beginning to see MY POINT??

Then, for trying to help, I get second guessed, corrected, and criticized because I didn't sugar coat the facts enough to not offend the liberals in the bunch...

LEVE is correct, and my grandpa used to say the same thing,
"NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED".

P.S.
For all you guys sticking up for scoutmotorsport,
AS OF 11-Aug-00, 09:28 AM Eastern Time, THE INFECTED DOCUMENT WAS STILL IN PLACE.
This is after scoutmotorsport e-mailed me back, being a wise ass, saying it was an accident, and he would delete it on 9-Aug...
Something else to think about?...Eh..?..

 

Easy TR. Read Bfeller's post again. He was agreeing *with* you, not being critical of you.

 

Jeez, you make it sound so romantic and noble like Robin Hood or something. /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif I gotta agree with TR on this one. *Some* virus writers are truly talented individuals, but once you cross that line and unleash your creation upon the masses, you are scum in my book. There are plenty of security and bug search operations up & running that do some of what these virus writers do, but there's a difference. They NOTIFY the software maker and industry magazines/web sites of their findings so that they can be corrected. Causing innocent people to lose valuable data, time, and money is terrorism, plain and simple, there's nothing noble about it. As the IS supervisor for a major midwest energy retailer, I don't appreciate having to shut down my e-mail server for a day and stay at work until the wee hours of the morning to mop up rather than being at home with my wife and son. Time is money, and we lose money when there's down time. That means our net profit is lower, which means I get a smaller bonus at the end of the year, which means I can't buy as many Jeep goodies /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif.

 

TR - I am in full agreement with all you have said, except for this:

"It did, however, cost me 1 hour and 45 minutes while the virus scanner ran all drives, and made sure nothing else was infected on the network.
It did cost me 2 hours of my network engineers' time.
And the network was down for over 2 hours because of the virus, so I had 22 office people sitting on their thumbs that still got paid...

Who do you think cause all those problems?
Who should I bill for that down time and aggravation?"

I hardly think you can argue that anyone but yourself was responsible for any down time...
You chose to surf this site from work, and if YOUR actions cause network down time (I hardly think the ORC BBS is "work" related), then although placing a virus here is wrong, he didn't make YOU open the file from YOUR work, causing YOUR network to be down...

Not trying to be rude, just calling it the way I see it /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 

Jeepskate,
Yes, you may be correct.
If that is the case, bfeller, I apologize.
I just feel like I'm taking it from all sides on this issue.
--------------------------------

DRM,
That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet on this thread!
That really is the panicle of stupidity so far on this tread. You are at the top.

Thats like saying when someone gets shot in a store robbery, it's the victim's fault for being in the store at the time of the robbery....
It's like saying if a drunk crosses the center line and hits someone head on, it's the victim's fault for being on the highway when the drunk was coming down the road....

I have every right to be here, and every right to do it any time I see fit to be here.
I should also have a reasonable expectation of not getting a virus while here.
I make every reasonable effort to make sure I do not receive, or pass a virus.
It should be expected of others also.
I expect my neighbors to have their dogs vaccinated against rabies, and their computers vaccinated against virus threats.
Not only is it against the law not to vaccinate your dog against rabies, it's against the law to pass on a computer virus. Check federal criminal code.

So, not only is ScoutMotorsports ignorant of anti-virus programs, and federal laws, but he's a criminal in the technical sense of the word, mainly because he left the virus on the BBS even after being notified of it's existence.
He's also a smart guy when someone trys to keep him from looking like an even bigger ass than he already is.

You, on the other hand, have even more problems than he does...
You are not only ignorant of the situation, but you lack the good sense to keep your mouth shut, and you have no concept what so ever 'Reasonable Expectation' as provided by society in general, and by the law in specific.

You are also mentally ill if you think it's the victim's fault he or she was the victim of a crime. SEEK HELP!!
I guess in your world, hate crimes are OK, because the victim was black, or gay, or Jewish, or a woman, or someone that speaks out.
Because they are not you, they deserved what ever happened to them?
How about someone knowingly passing the Hepatitis C virus to restraint customers that complained about the food?
Is that the customers fault because he choose to eat at the restaurant where the deranged typhoid Mary worked?
How about choosing an AIDS infected dentist that infected at least 19 patients in Florida?
Would it be your fault if you got aids from a dentist you didn't know was infected?

You really need to grow up and figure things out...
--------------------------------

FACT, as of 11-Aug-00, 09:28 AM, Eastern, The infected document is still attached to the post, and neither Red Sand Dog, or ScoutMotorsport has edited their posts to warn of the virus.
--------------------------------

FACT, I know ScoutMotorsport got my e-mail about the virus, because he e-mailed me back being a wise ass, and saying he would delete the attachment.
That was 9-Aug-00
There is a copy of his post on this thread.
---------------------------------

BOTTOM LINE,

If RedSandDog would go in and edit his original post with a warning that the next post has an attachment that contains a virus, that would help.
--------------------------------

If scoutmotorsport would go in and edit his post, and/ or remove his infected document or include a warning the attachment has a virus, that would help.

If he removes his document like he said he was going to on 9-Aug when he was busy being a smart ass, then the problem would be solved.

If he can't remove the document, he should post a warning that the document contains the Ethan. A virus, that would be a big help.
---------------------------------

But NO ONE has done anything except me.
I chased down the virus, and collected the information on it.
I posted the warning ahead of the infected thread, that had 350 hits before they got to the infected thread.
I e-mailed the ORC staff (they will look into it in three months or so...).
I e-mailed the offending party and notified him he infected the BBS.
And...
I'm the one that took heat for pointing out that there was a virus, and how it was passed...
I'm the one that took time to go check and see if the virus was still there,
I'm the one having to spend time defending myself because so many people stick up for virus writers and spreaders...

Hell, don't you think my time would be better spent trying to solve problems people are having with Jeeps?

I'm done with this thread.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

I do not know TeamRush but he has extended me personal attention to my mechanical problems on more than one occassion. Although I have never met the man I have read MANY of his posts. I believe by reading someones posts you can gain insight on that person. I wholeheartedly believe that Aaron will say exactly what is on his mind. Many people that I feel are pretty thin-skinned take his OBSERVATIONS and turn them into accussations. His recent post was than a "Beware of dog" sign. He presented the information he had found and left it at that. I once believed that Aaron was a little harsh and quick to jump someone case but exactly as he stated he does not like people not being held accountable for their actions. If people would take his observations for waht they are (an attempt to help) and leave him alone. We wouldn't get into these long ramblings about _______ (fill in the blank as it applies). TeamRush may be brash but he was trying to help. Stop being so childish you can't take a few harsh words.

Can you fix it?
I got a welder and a grinder. Heck yeah I can fix it./wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

TeamRush, I don't know what your problem is, but you just showed your ass in a big way...

I don't even feel like replying point for point to your post becasue I can see (and you said so yourself) that you feel like you are getting it from all sides on this. I will let it slide for the most part...

But I don't appreciate the personal comments towards myself that you just made. If you are so immature that those type of replies to my comments are all that you can muster, I truly feel sorry for you. You tell me to grow up while you are acting like a 3 year old taking this to a personal level trying to degrade me? How about YOU grow up.

You've got issues that have nothing to do with my post - get over them...

That facts are this:

Any time YOU go on the internet, YOU are at risk of things like virus infection. YOU chose to surf from work, thereby endangering YOUR work's network. If YOU had not been on the BBS, YOUR network would not have seen down time. How about YOU take some personal freakin' responsibility for YOUR actions, ok?

If I crash the network here at work because I am surfing a site and get a virus, I will be glad to have the boss call you and you can explain how it was not may fault - that ok with you?

Go ahead, pass the buck... and make a mountain out of a mole hill while you are at it...

 

Anyone who opens a *.doc from the internet does so AT THEIR OWN RISK.
Be a little computer saavy. Be responsible for your own actions!
'nuff said!
Let's move on to another subject!

RocknCJ /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif
Good judgment comes from bad experiences, bad experiences come from bad judgment.

 

Hold the phone there sunshine

Excuse me there big guy, but I did post a message in the thread alerting readers to the fact that there was virus in the previous post.

'74 CJ-5
Send Money
...and a beer

 

Re: Hold the phone there sunshine

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gifcan't we all just get along/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif.....sorry couldnt help myself!!!!

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif Boldly going where no jeep has gone before!!/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

 

My mother use to tape record my brother and I fighting when we were little. Man was that embarrasing when I got to listen to it. I just read this post, all the way through for the first time, and it brought back memories of the tape recorder. Sure the guy who posted the infected document should have made sure that it was clean...its federal law...etc...etc...etc...

My question & sort of idea is Why did the ORC not incorporate virus scanning software into the posting part to of the BBS?

Being a "tech" guy my self I can understand the frustrations behind viruses. When "Melissa" came through two of our servers here at work went down, but the E-mail server didn't because of the virus check programs that scan all attachments. This type of software isn't new. It has been around for a while. It would have been smart to include it in a BBS system that enables participants to post files to the BBS.

Viruses are nothing to get this mad about. If you've got something important on your PC at home/work make sure that you have it backed up with either a tapedrive, CD's or other device. That is the responsible thing to do. Yes it is convient to assume that everyone out there keeps their virus software updated, but most don't. Just as new cell phone users are having to learn when it is polite to use their phone, new computer users need to learn about virus programs when they get a new computer. Just think about all of the new computer users out there, all the people buying PC's every day that have no clue what a virus does. Then they find out that a virus may have infected their system and then overreact. The best advice I can give about viruses is don't download an attachement unless you trust the sender/poster. Most viruses come with a .exe extention. Word Macro viruses are a whole different story. But they are not hard to fix, assuming that you are in posession of the installation disks. Like mentioned before, macro viruses, most, are not very harmful to your system, just MS Word documents.

the moral of the story is...be responsible. If you posted a virus, lets assume not intentionally, then own up to it, apologize and get rid of it. End of story...If you find out that someone posted a virus...ask them to take it off, politely. There is no need to argue over who said what. Macro virus...I've accidentally made a couple my self...easy to do b/c I use a lot of macros when I am at work to do menial tasks...macros save a lot of time. I also recieve a lot of emails from people over seas that have viruses in them. You get use to getting them.

And this is the the ORC systems administors...Come up with a system for dealing with posted viruses. Heck, make a BBS specifically for notifying the admin about possible viruses and virus infected documents. You people are here to keep the BBS from having infected attachments on it.

Robert87yj/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif
4.2 w/(4.0 head & MPI)
Process of a moonguy after beer
/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif