NEWS PARTS JEEP & 4x4 ATV & UTV

Welding with batteries & tobacco juice.

863 Views 21 Replies 5 Participants Last post by **DONOTDELETE**, Feb 10, 2000

CJDave

Discussion Starter · Feb 6, 2000

5

/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif In the last issue of JP magazine they had an article about welding D.C. stick electrode using a group of auto batteries. I have to admit, it was an intriguing possibility. I have noticed the similarity between what a stray battery cable can do and welding rod....they both can arc the heck out of everything. I have a box of what they call Quick-Trik disconnects for welding cable left over from the "old days"; when all my underwear had holes burned in it; and it would not be too tough to set a Jeep up for welding by connecting the battery group WITH the Quick-Triks, and then re-arrange them for welding in just a few minutes. If you had a Jeep buddy, do both Jeeps that way, and you would have one-to-four batteries to connect, depending on the weld you had to make. The best part is that it adds little or no extra machinery or weight, especially if you are running dual batteries anyway. Can't you just see this.....you break your Jeep on the trail....along comes a pair of Jeeps...out steps the grizzled old "Uncle Jesse"-type guy in the lead Jeep...he walks up...looks at your Jeep....turns slightly...spits out a shot of tobacco juice...and says:"Well kid,.....(spits again) ....looks like a four bat-rey job t'me." He then goes back to his Jeep; he and his buddy circle the Jeeps, some Quick-Triks are manipulated, and out comes the welder leads out of the tool box. You see, the ONLY adjustment you will have is the number and size of the batteries, other than just changing rod, so it would take a little practice to make the decision up front as to how many batteries to connect./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Well....I guess I'll go see if I can find that box of Quick-Triks./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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G

· #2 · Feb 6, 2000

4

That article was interesting. I always wondered if welding with batteries was possible, especially on those days when my moonguys are lazy "Nah, I don't need to disconnect the stinkin' battery" and I end up dragging a wrench across a hot lead and causing an arc a foot long/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. I still won't believe it until I see it, though. I think if I broke something and Uncle Jesse offered to help with his West Virginia welder I'd gladly accept, but take cover under the biggest boulder I could find. Of course, in the aftermath I would have one hell of a campfire story!/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Is there any risk to the batteries when doing this? I am seriously considering piecing together a kit like they mentioned (the kit cost about $150 I think), but am worried about an exploding battery. Anyone out there actually welded with their batteries?

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CJDave

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 7, 2000

4

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif The BIG risk is getting the batteries too close and getting a gas explosion. HOWEVER, Uncle Jesse set his up so that the batteries never left the Jeep, using the Quick-Trik connectors to re-arrange the cable configuration. Larry Van Every had a great post a while back on battery types, and before I did this I would wnat to check with him and get the battery with the beefy insides, since the last battery in the string is carrying a crapload of AMPS. The other thing is the connections. MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT on the battery post, and maximum footprint on each and every connection, using welding cable throughout./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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G

· #4 · Feb 7, 2000

I can't seem to find JP magazine on any of the racks around here in Calgary .. do you know of a website where I could order in a couple of issues to check it out?

Laters!

Vance - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
1985 4x4 S-10 and 1988 Jeep YJ

CJDave

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 7, 2000

4

/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Try www.jpmagazine.com/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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G

· #6 · Feb 7, 2000

Dave,

You set that web address as a Mailto: .. it should have been coded as http://www.jpmagazine.com .. but thanks for the info!

Laters!

Vance - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
1985 4x4 S-10 and 1988 Jeep YJ

CJDave

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 7, 2000

4

/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Er....we got it off the front cover. Mailto? Er....ah...sure....is that like a mail sack? Mail box? Mail truck? We are WAYYY behind on computer smarts over here. I'm really a fifties kind of guy./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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034

· #8 · Feb 7, 2000

4

For the regular clickable links, Dave, you'll need to put (url) (/url) with (&) replaced with [&], instead of the email and /email... /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"
/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4

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G

· #9 · Feb 7, 2000

Dave,

When coding HTML, use GreaterThan and LessThan to create the markup. I will use squigleys to show how GT and LT work.

{A HREF="http://www.yahoo.com"}www.yahoo.com{/a} and what would show to you would be www.yahoo.com.

Does that help out at all?

Vance - Calgary, Alberta, Canada
1985 4x4 S-10 and 1988 Jeep YJ

CJDave

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 7, 2000

6

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Er....we THINK we got it...right guys/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif??

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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13337

· #11 · Feb 7, 2000

Back when I still had the engine electric business, I had a customer that used 8-D batteries, (used in bulldozers, about 150 lbs apiece) and had them set up in so he could do welding on medical stuff.
He didn't use regular rod holders though. He said if you ever got into the connection (or became the connection) you would not have a chance to let go.
He said regular rod holders would arc back to his hands, so he used a big old thing that looked home made to me.
One day when I was there, he had about 12 batteries hooked together, (able to supply about 1,500 amps apiece for about half an hour) and he had an arc jump a 2-1/2 foot air gap and sustain it's self for about 25 seconds, with no sigh of weakening, until he got the power shut down.
I was impressed as all get out, but I just about wet my pants.
It was about a 1,000 Sq ft. room with about 10 foot ceilings, and the temperature went up noticeably in those 25 seconds. That arc was something!!
I don't get to see many DC arcs that last longer that 1000 micro seconds, and I damn sure never seen any, before or cense, that covered a 2-1/2 foot jump!!

I wouldn't be as concerned with footprint as I would be with the type of terminals that were used to connect to the batteries. The best we found were for heavy equipment, and were solid copper with a lead cadmium plating on them. I normally used the crimp type, and use a hammer crimper, then used silver bearing solder to seal the moisture out of the connections, then heat shrink tubing. Game over, you win.
It worked on over the road trucks that had exposed batteries to the road salt and crap.

I've seen people do it, so I know it can be done, but....
Be careful, the average car battery can sustain 750 to 1,000 amps for about half a minute, so there is real potential for electrocution here.

Later folks, Aaron.

When a fool and a wise man argue, Onlookers can't tell the difference...

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CJDave

Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 7, 2000

6

/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif The most vicious DC electrical injury that I have personally witness occurred in a substation that makes DC current for street cars. It was 700 volts DC, and that stuff arcs like crazy and STAYS arcing, just as you said. What started out as an accidental screwdriver sojourn onto some controls ended up with a severe burn on the guy's hand. DC can be risky, if there is enough voltage to drive it. Luckily, the DC welders are usually less than fifty volts./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif My personal choice for a rod holder is the Jackson rotary style. Used 'em fer years on pipeline welding./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif I just HAVE to try this battery thing./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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G

· #13 · Feb 7, 2000

If you're using batteries what keeps the current from going trough the roof when you strike the arc or fuse the electrode to the work?
As I recall the Stick and TIG processes use a constant current (CC) machine with a drooping output characteristic.
Using batteries kinda sounds like using a MIG welder which is a constant voltage machine as a stick welder.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done. I'm just a lousy stick welder and tend to get the electrode stuck all to easy. If I were using batteries would this fry the batteries or the holder?

13337

· #14 · Feb 7, 2000

2

I can't answer that one. All I can say on the subject is I sold the batteries, and I have seen it done.
It gives the smoothest stainless steel weld I have ever seen.
The only way to control amperage is to add or subtract batteries in parallel.
The only way to control voltage would be to add or subtract batteries in series.
(or have I got that backwards?)

LOOK DAVE! /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
A dozen people tried to help me with that, but when they did it, they all did the deed, and I got the faces instead of what they were writing!

When a fool and a wise man argue, Onlookers can't tell the difference...

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LEVE

· #15 · Feb 7, 2000

For those of you who do not have access to JP and want the article on "WELDING WITH BATTERIES", email me and I'll email you the article in three JPEG files. The article is good, and does cover ONLY the basics. Remember the things discussed on this form are USE AT YOUR OWN RISK... and this is one thing that can be plenty RISKY... (ie. You can DIE if you do it wrong).

Oasis Off Road Battery Welding Kit... This is the product reviewed and used in the article.
http://www.oasis-off-road.com/page12.html

For those who've not been to Jon's site.... It's well worth going through ALL of his stuff...
John's Jeep Page On the Cheap Welding Experiment (good read)
http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/portable-welder.html

Buld a $20 mounted welder...You'r on your own with this one! You can learn something from almost ANY source if you pay attention....
http://www.fament.com/Chip/weld/weld.html

Ready Welder... A pricey MIG alternitive to a Primere Welder, or Mobil-Welder. WOW, would I love to have THIS system!
http://www.fly-n-hi.com/readyweld.html

Good Jeepin'

Larry

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G

· #16 · Feb 8, 2000

I have welded with batteries before... 3 in a series seem to work best. I was able to get some really good beads. Be careful though when a battery is under a load it releases a EXPLOSIVE gas so you must be really careful.

Good Luck

Richard

G

· #17 · Feb 8, 2000

A buddy of mine has a bass boat with six marine batteries all hooked together and said he's game in the Spring /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. I can't wait! I guess I'll have to invest in some rubber underwear, though (for insulation...or to catch the mess when a Frankenstein arc sizzles by my head).

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elusive

· #18 · Feb 8, 2000

now wait.....remember the old i/e/r thing....if the current is constant(a bunch of batteries) and the voltage is fairly constant, couldn't you adjust the whole thing with a BIG potentiometer?

CJDave

Discussion Starter · #19 · Feb 8, 2000

4

/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif I know exactly what's going to happen. The marine deep cycle batteries don't have big connections so those will burn off.....OR the batteries will fail internally. Those batteries are made for a small current for a long time, not heavy amps for a short time. Better find a big rock to get behind when he strikes the first arc./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

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G

· #20 · Feb 8, 2000

Sounds like you folks have got this figured out. The problems and dangers are pretty well covered. I haven't seen the article, but I can say that I have done the welding. I've never used more than two batteries. I use very short 'beads', then quit, and see if anything is getting hot (like posts and connections). The 'kit' doesn't amount to much... just a few sticks, and eye-protection. The gloves, jumper cables, and batteries are already on the Jeep. First time I saw this done, was on a trip through South America (Darien Gap), something like 30 years ago. And, I don't believe the idea was 'new', then, either. Best wishes, and be careful.

bobH

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