[Guest]

Hello fellow Jeep owners and Weber Carb Owners.

I would like to hear from any Weber Carb owners for the 4.2L 258 I6 engine. My Jeep is the 89 Wrangler YJ. I have installed the new Weber K551 on my 258 and due to unclear instructions I am left with some "am I doing this right" type of questions. I would really like to talk with someone via the phone since I have to get my Jeep back on the road ASAP... and know it is setup properly. Also this would be one long post if I asked everything... so I will try to ask just a couple of questions.

I installed the K551 Weber a couple of weeks ago and was left with some of these questions:

1)Do I use my EGR and if so how exactly should it be connected? The instructions I had were not clear.

2) The instructions said I wanted the IDLE between 700 and 900, however the Weber tech support said it needs to be 400 to 500.
Anyone who knows the Weber and the low idle circuit knows you can't have the idle speed screw turned in more than 2 turns or you expose something called the progression port. And the mixture idle screw needs to stay between 1.5 and 2.5 turns out. If you are beyond these settings then you would need to change out the Idle Jet to a larger or smaller size.
Ultimately to get my Weber to idle at 520 RPMs without turning the idle screw in more than 2 turns I had to jump up 2 sizes to 85 in the Idle Jet. With absolutely NO load 520 RPMs at idle it sounds very good and very smooth, however put the AC on, headlights on, and the Automatic transmission into drive then the RPMs drop to about 400 RPMs or just below 400 if it has not warmed up yet. At this point the lights dim at night and you can see the battery gauge drop like there isn't enough charge going back to the battery. This just seems to me that the idle needs to be a tad higher. Anyway, Ron at Weber Tech support has helped a little, but mostly he doesn't want to talk unless you can give a HARD problem. He doesn't seem to have the time to answer the "is this correct" type of problems. He always says "What is the problem". Well I don't know exactly what the problem is, I just have questions about is it correct or not. Sorry... I started to vent. The last time I talked to Ron he told me to he thought I had a vacuum leak somewhere or I needed to advance my distributor. I currently am at 5 BTDC. He suggested going to advancing to 0.
Regarding the vacuum hoses I have replaced all hoses with new ones.. and in reality there are only a few that are still being used with the Weber. Basically the only hoses connected (vacuum or otherwise) to the weber are:
PVC Hose, Hose from air filter to rear hole on valve cover, fuel hose, vacuum advance from left side of Weber to the vacuum on the distributor, hose from the fuel bowl vent to the gas purge canister.
Other hoses still in use not connected directly to the Weber:
From a port on the CTO to the gas purge canister is what some call the Purge Signal vacuum. All other ports on the CTO are capped off. Well there is one port that seems to have a filter cap on it.

Sorry for the long post, but anyone who wants to respond or who is willing to talk to me via phone please reply here or send phone number and I can call on my dime via email.

Also here is a link to the exact email I sent to Weber with my comments and questions in case you want to read it and comment on it as well.

http://www.geocities.com/gmanhere79/weber.html

pics of my jeep at:

http://www.geocities.com/gmanhere79/jeeppics.html

diagram of current vacuum and hose hook up:

http://www.geocities.com/gmanhere79/myconnections.html

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Guest]

One thing I'm a little confused about is the idle speed, it seems mighty low. I have a 32/36, idles great at about 700 which is what
the instructions said when I installed it a couple years ago.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

 

[Guest]

Brad... hows this for instructions... Ron at Weber told me the instructions are wrong and I should only be idling at 500. It just doesn't make sense to me either as I think 500 is a little to low. Especially after load is placed on it. I said the same thing to Ron about the instructions saying 700 to 900 and he said no 400 to 500. You now understand my frustrations.
By the way... at 700 RPM's how many turns after contact is the Idle Speed screw set on yours??? Are you beyond 2 turns???
Thanks in advance.
Greg (New to Jeeping)

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure on the number of turns, its been a year or so since I messed with the idle. I'll check when I get home tonite. BTW,
sounds like you have it all hooked up correctly hose wise. The Weber, when running properly is IMO as close as you can get to FI.
I've been at some weird angles where I've seen other carbureted vehicles have a heck of a time, but I can just keep on idling right
through. BTW, you are running a fuel pressure regulator I hope.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

 

[Guest]

I think it sounds great at 500... just can't go much below. I think 650 to 700 would be perfect in mine... and then with load it would be just right.

I would greatly appreaciate you checking the turns in for the Idle Speed Screw... I am very interested in what you have it set for.

I have only had this about 3 weeks so the fuel pressure regulator I need to check on. I replaced all the fuel and vacuum hoses in the engine compartment and as well as the fuel filter. Where would I find the fuel pressure regulator?? Does the 89 YJ have one??

Also, when I start the vehicle as a cold start... meaning it hasn't ran in the last 4 hours, how do I get the choke to work. I thought it was electric and would automatically set. This is probably a stupid question anyway.

Do I have to depress the gas pedal before starting to activate the choke??
Should it automatically work being that it is electric??

FYI: The ambient temperature outside was about 60 degrees during the cold start. I have yet to get the choke to set without manually closing the butterfly plates and opening the throttle.... and as soon as I press the pedal again the choke is off... as I would expect it to do. Is it possible with an ambient temperature of 60 degrees that it isn't cold enough to set the choke??

Thanks again

 

[Guest]

I bought my pressure regulator at NAPA, good unit, about $25. Set it at 2.5 lbs. When I set my choke, I installed the carb in the
middle of the summer, had to reset it when winter came along. One push on the pedal ought to set it when cold. FYI there was
a post a few days ago about fine tuning the choke, you might want to read it.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

 

[Guest]

Greg,

I'm no expert, but I have to agree with the other post, 500RPMs sounds awfully low. I have mine set to [email protected][I think that was the last timing setting I used--I've been experimenting]. Anyway, it seems to run great with these settings. [although I'm running a HEI ignition]

As far as all the other hoses, etc., I have the EGR connected to the vacuum port on the engine-side of the carb, closest to the firewall. It used to be T-ed with the line going to the evap canister, but the canister is shot and I've since unplugged it. If you intend to use your canister, the vacuum line should be routed through the CTO valve because that line should not be drawing on the canister valve when the engine is cold.

The hose going from the air filter to the rear of the valve cover should be the crankcase breather--not the PCV line. Is your PCV valve plugged into the rear hole in your valve cover? Regardless, it should be in front and definately should be plugged into the hole in the carb adaptor, not the air filter.

I personally have the dist vacuum plugged into the manifold port. I recently did a GM-HEI upgrade and that's what suited me for my setup. It just took some experimenting to come to that conclusion. You may find it better at the carb port.

Have you bypassed your computer? If not you might consider that. You're basically voiding most of the computer input/output by putting the Weber in anyway. See http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jnutter1.htm

I looked at your vacuum diagram and everything looks OK, from what I know, except that the CTO is doing nothing with that setup. There needs to be a vacuum source hooked to one side of the CTO. When the engine heats up, the CTO opens and vacuum gets drawn to wherever the hose on the other side is going--in your case, the evap canister. Right now the canister is plugged in, but there's no vacuum source. Make sure your purge valve isn't faulty or it will cause problems. That's why I unplugged mine. See http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/tech/258bbd/evaporat.htm

I hope this helps!

Chris

 

[Guest]

Greg,

One thing I forgot, Idle mixture. Again I'm no mechanic, but this is what more knowledgeable folks advised me:

With the screw turned almost all the way out, I set the Idle to 700 with the engine warmed up. Then I slowly turned it in, while watching my tach. Eventually the idle slowed and the engine started missing. At this point I turned the screw back out to the point just where it previously hit top RPM [only about .75-1 turn, I think.] Every now and then I fiddle with this setting. Probably always will. Drives my wife nuts.

Hope this helps!

Chris

 

[Guest]

Am I correct that I do not have a pressure regulator by default??? Where do I install the pressure regulator on the Jeep??

Any instructions online for this??

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Regarding the choke... if the ambient temperature outside is 60 to 70 degrees and the Jeep hasn't been started in a day should the choke activate???

Am I correct that when I press the gas pedal before starting it moves the linkages which moves the high idle scree back and then if the temperature is right the choke cam should rotate with the high lobe to the high idle screw which should allow it to be choked... and then once it warms up if I tap the pedal the cam moves out the way and I idle at normal speed??

Just trying to clarify the whole process.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Hey Chris,

Why does one choose manifold vacuum over ported vacuum???

And what is the main difference??

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Yes, when you depress the gas pedal the choke is activated when the engine is cold. The problem is that the choke may not be properly adjusted at the factory ( as I found out when I install my 32/36 on my 89 YJ ). The electric function of the choke is to allow it to open slowly as the engine warms. The electric device on the choke has no part of the choke closing, that is all mechanical. As far as kicking down the idle speed, the way I have mine adjusted, I get an initial fast idle (1800 rpm), then after starting and idling for a few seconds, I can depress the pedal and the idle will drop to about 1100 rpm until the engine warms, then it will drop to normal idle, about 800 rpm. I have my base idle set a little higher since I live in Fla and run the AC a lot.

I left a post on Monday on how I set my choke, if you can't find it let me know and I will send it to you.

 

[Guest]

No, you don't have a pressure regulator, you will have to install one in the fuel delivery line after the filter. Factory fuel pressure is
too high for the Weber, plus the bouncing around off road is murder on your float valve and fuel level. You will be amazed at the
difference a pressure regulator will make.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

 

[Guest]

Hey Brad,

Here is a pic of my weber just before I completed the install (See attachment above). I don't have the gas feed connected here, so I painted it RED like it is there. Would the regulator go about where the Green square is painted it? This is after the fuel filter and before going into the Weber.

Just confirming... thanks

 

[Guest]

That is exactly where I put my pressure regulator.

 

[Guest]

What temperature is considered cold??? 60, 70, 100, 200 degrees??

Speaking of temperature... Ok here is a joke for you:

A group of folks were asked what they thought the best invention in the world was. After hearing a dozen or so responses one fellow stood up and said "I believe the best invention in the world is the Thermos. It can keep cold drinks cold and it can keep hot drinks hot..." and with a puzzled look he finishes with "But how do it know?".

Ok... I'm not a comedian.

Is the internals of the choke heat sensitve and it expands and contracts based on the overall temerature being transferred to it through the carb and engine?

And I think someone said you could adjust it if it wasn't activating at the correct temperatures.

 

[Guest]

Not everyone may agree with me, but I consider a "cold" engine anything below normal operating temp. All I know to start my Jeep easily in the AM, I need my choke to close completely, which is usually about 75 degrees.

There is a metal coil inside the electric choke device that is heat sensitive. After start up, the metal coil is slowly heated by the 12V electric current you should have connected to the device. The heating of this coil slowly opens the choke. I suppose the rise in underhood temp would do the same thing, but would probably take longer. I haven't checked to be sure, but considering the physics that the choke is designed by, I suppose if you are starting a partially warmed engine, the partially heated metal coil would not allow the choke to be completely closed.

So you see it is not actually an "on/off" kind of thing. Once you have the choke fine tuned, it will close only as much as your engine needs it to.

I left a post on Monday in response to a Weber startup question describing how I adjusted mine.

 

[Guest]

Hey Brad,

Did you happen to check the number of turns your idle speed screw is turned in after contact to the throttle linkage???

If there is anyone else who knows how many turns in theirs is please let me know.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Why manifold over ported? Dunno! I had changed over to an HEI ignition, following several articles on the web. Some folks use manifold, others ported. I tried both and manifold worked better for me. Keep in mind though, the HEI unit has a vacuum diaphram with a slightly different advance curve then a stock Jeep distributer. That's why I had to play around. I think I stuck with ported while I had the old dist in there.

I think the only difference is that manifold vacuum pulls more than ported.


Chris