Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

are your driveshafts out of algin?

RUN IN TO YOU LATER

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Mark, what have you done to the rig since you got it? It didnt do this before that i can remember, but i only drove it once and nothing vibrated more then the tape on the windshield at 80. By the way i checked the windshields again when i was at the yard, the one the has a decent frame, has some sort of rusty hole in the middle and it looks like something went there before. I dont pay attention to convertables so i didnt know what it was, but the hole has to be three inches wider or close to it. Its yours if you want it when you come down. I had bad vibrations a couple of times, one when i had it in gear and accellerated. Id let up then itd go away. Then it got so bad and loud as heck even when it was in gear and decelerating going down hill. That turned out to be the diff, that we changed at glenns right before zukin2k. Never had a problem since. Why would you all of a sudden need spacers? Is it a shimmy or a noise? My death wobble was tire balance. Proved that at paragon. went 80 with very little shake and no death wobble, but now im pimpin with my power steering and real rims so it should drive much better. of course 80 with 33's grs 1 and 5.12's probably means 65 or so. Does anyone know?

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Nope, just the acceleration vibration, and I haven't touched the Zuk since then, except for cosmetic stuff.

I'd be interested in the windshield frame, how much though?

I'll check the diff fluid, as well as all the fluids, but I haven't driven it much since getting it, just haven't had time, it's been raining, dad in the hospital, something else always comes up.

Those times have changed though, now it's getting run a lot more, along with the bike.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Make sure to use hypoid type gear oil in the diffs. Ujoints can be 'tight' when you feel them on the vehicle. You need to pull the drive shaft out and see if the ujoints flop around easily. If they do that, AND they are still 'tight', good news...its not the ujoints. If they dont flop around, good news...its the ujoints. hehe Ujoints are cheap and easy to replace. If you STILL have vibration during acceleration, you need to make sure you driveline angles are good, or atleast not really out of whack. Check t-case mounts for being tweaked, if your shifter cant stay in 4wd low, they are. Check the intermediate shaft between tran and tcase. Use same test on ujoints for it too. check engine mounts for possibly being in 2 pieces. They are prone to do that after a while.

ICQ# = 3859170
There's a new Sami website in town, and its...
http://members.home.net/micahis

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Jeepn,
I used to have this problem with my Samurai and it's 5" SR lift until I went to a double cardan rear driveshaft. Also,check your
T-case arms to see if they're bent and the rubber mounts.

rollerskate
(That's what I was told my Samurai resembles)/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

JEEPN,
My brother & I have a 94 & 95 sammy with the 5" Calmini lift kits.. The 95 has very low miles. Both never had a vibe on accel and both developed a nasty vibe on accel immediately after installing the kit. This vibe is especially noticeable in 2nd gear & under accel only. We were able to MINIMIZE but not completely eliminate the problem, by using steel shims in the leafpack. Do not use aluminum as it shifts and breaks, they must be steel ( Avail. From RRO )If I remember right they were 2 degrees . It didn't completely eliminate the prob but helped A LOT ... Maybe 3 or 4 degrees would do better..

Also, after about 500 miles on the 94 and 300 miles on the 95' the front drivesheft developed bad vibes. Try putting your sam on jackstands under the front axle with the full weight of the vehicle on them and turn the front driveshaft by hand ... I'll bet it binds...... Both of ours did....
We solved this by using one inch extended splines on the driveshaft and tossing the aluminim spacers. This decreases the steep angles caused by the spacers and returns the driveshaft to the correct length...

Our rear driveshafts have no spacers and plenty of splines available for articulation.. We found that one inch extended yokes do not fit in the rear with this lift kit as they bind up tightly when the suspension is collapsed. The stock driveshaft angles are pretty flat even with the lift..

However, I think running cv type shafts are definitely the best way to go. If I had known how much time & money we would spend experimenting and then finally installing extensions I would have done the cv driveshaft instead... Hope this saves you some grief.... Just my 2 cents..

rodnee

Kool ZOOKS Rule

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Jeepn'
It just occurred to me that you stated there are no spacers on your zook... The Calmini kit tells you to install These spacers on the front driveshaft only .. The 1/2" spacer on the transfer case side and the 3/4 " at the third member. No spacers are required on the rear driveshaft. If there are no spacers on the front of your zook then the driveshaft is probably over extended and wobbling at the spline...
rodnee

Kool ZOOKS Rule

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

But the front hubs are unlocked and the transfer is in 2WD.

I'll check on the oil tomorrow, as well as pulling the shafts and checking the joints, I'd like to be able to drive this with confidence.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Is it definitely drivetrain related? I've seen some vehicles with a miss under load/acceleration that felt like a drivetrain problem.

I'll be back.

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

I'm pretty sure. It feels like it's in the pedal, and only under acceleration. The harder the acceleration, the more vibration, and the easier I accelerate, the less vibraiton there is.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

OK, here's the scoop.

The good news:

I went out and checked all the diffs, transfer and tranny, and all are full of fluid. Man, these things are so small, the whole transfer is smaller than just the drain plug on the Scrambler, and weighs about 1/2 as much. I feel like I'm working on a Briggs lawnmower. That was obviously a joke, but it is smaller than just the PTO for the tranny, and the PTO has larger shafts as well.

I'm just amazed that these can suffer such abuse, my school of thought (which is gettin' some skoolin' now) is that bigger is beefier and to not break something, upgrade the snot out of it. The more I tinker on it, the more fun it becomes, like the jeep, but there's a WHOLE lot less wiring on the jeep, which is nice.

Anyway, I took the rear shaft off and both joints are fine, no problems.

The bad news:

I grabbed my handy dandy magnetic angle finder and put it on the driveshaft, 15 degrees, so no problem there.

Next I put it on the transfer output yoke on the driveshaft, making sure it was parallel to the ground, 2 degrees.

Lastly came the rear axle driveshaft yoke, also making sure it was parallel, 12 degrees.

Yep, they're off by 10 degrees, measured it twice to make sure I didn't screw something up.

Anyone have any shims laying around I can use?

Glenn, what did you do with the ones removed from Max's rear springs last year? You're a packrat like I am (saves EVERYTHING, never know when you'll need it for a project), so I'm hoping they didn't hit the can.

I'd rather not buy new if they are expensive as the springs are coming off anyway. If they are cheap I don't mind springing for them.

The other good news is the rear axle looks like it's very close to adding a CV shaft, with the angles it's sitting at. The perches don't look like they've been cut and rewelded though, could this be stock?

Oh, and there are no driveshaft spacers on the front axle, and there is no way they'd fit, there is very little splines there as it is.

That's funny, I just went to http:// http://www.puresuzuki.com/super_5.htm, which is the kit installed on the Zuk, and it does not show shims on/for the springs.

Am I way off base here or am I hitting the target?

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Max has the shims in his tool box. For a cv driveshaft you
will want the diff pointing just about at the t-case flange.
Hmm it sounds like they tried to improve the angle when they installed the kit. Stock they should be about parallel with the ground. Have your driveshafts been extended? Check for extra welds on the tubes there should only be welds on the
ends of the shaft.

Glenn
87' Zook Spoa,M/L 33's, 4.16 tcase,4.62 gears Camo,Header,2"exhuast, Cam.
Lockers, 8klb winch, -Wildweasel2 NE4WI- club http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

JEEPN,

You may just have an older 5" combo. From my understanding, The second generation kits used 5 leaf front packs which moved the axle forward 1". This is not true of the early kits. Because of the axle movement, the 2nd gen kits use spacers for the front.

The rear stays the same.

I too had wicked vibes when I first put the kit on, and only in 2nd under hard acceleration. I eventually learned how to drive around it.

Thing is, the u-joint angles at the t-case are pretty steep. No way around it without a CV of some type. It's that fast-slow-fast-slow thing that happens when u-joints aren't strait or close to it.

Shims should help, and so would a longer rear shackle (same net effect). Honestly, I only noticed the vibes when I shifted form 1st to 2nd and go on it. Once I was above 3rd, I didn't notice it much. I think it's a harmonics thing that makes it so bad at that RPM/Speed.

JEEPN, you're not going to be running that suspension for long, right? Want my suggestion? Leave it, live with it for now and worry about what noises pop up when you spring it over! No sense wasting effort, IMHO.

Yankee Tim/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Glenn, no drivehshaft mods done, I think the guy wasn't that good at fabbing. I'll need shims to reangle the axle when I go to a CV anyway, so the shim's will come in handy, I only need a few degrees.

Tim, adding longer rear shackles will only compound the angle problem, but they would help with a CV shaft.

So I have one of the generation I kits, great. It's nice to know they did all of the "research and testing" before they marketed it. If anything, I have to rotate the rear axle pinion down towards the ground to correct the angle. With weight on the suspension (me driving it), the angles are probably on the borderline of being OK, which is why I get no vibration at cruise. Upon acceleration, it would rotate the pinion up just enough to be out of tolerance and cause the vibration.

The problem is I want to drive it more and don't want to chew up U-joints, and shims are a simple and quick fix anyway.

I was talking with some jeepers and they recommended not going SOA with my setup, they said the cops are on a rampage about 4x4's. So I may play it safe and stay SUA. I'm going to build my own kit, so it'll have plenty of flex and still get me the height.

I am going to put a 2" body lift on it though, I think I'll need it to clear the tires. Any suggestions or things to watch when installing it?

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

If you have a small bit of lift now and plan on body lift, why not just do the spring over? You will have close to the same lift maybe a bit more. But if the cop sees big tires he is going to pull you over. he will not be able to tell what lift you have. And if you are in one of those states that does not allow SPOA let he it is stock. Chances are he won't know. Then I caould be way off on this???

Jason

I Work to Wheel, because I wheel, I work.
http://www.geocities.com/zuk_tonka/zuk.html

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

That's the reason, I am in one of those states.

Most of the cops won't know the difference, that is true. However, there are a select few that like to give wheelers a hard time, and they do know the laws. So while I may be able to get away with it for awhile, it's only a matter of time. The problem is also with the inspection stations. If they know their laws, then they will reject the vehicle and I'll have to go SUA then anyway. However, if I do go SOA, and get caught by the cops, they not only pull my vehicle and ticket me (possible impoundment, but I doubt they'd go that far), but they also go back to the inspection station and pull their license. Messing around and taking chances is fine with me, I can accept the responsibility, but I don't like messing with other people's livelihood.

It happened to a friend's jeep, he was in an accident, where the State Police always go over the vehicles with a fine toothed comb. He was fined $100 for not having a functioning E-brake (he ran over a Subaru, like it would have mattered), and they went after the garage for inspecting it without one. Luckily they avoided any problems, but the people that inspected the Subaru (rust) had their license pulled for 6 months. At a major dealership, that's quite a long time and a lot of lost revenue.

Yes it sucks, and there is no good reason for the law, but that's what it takes to live here. At least we don't have the emissions crap, that would truly suck.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Mark,As you know I run the same kit.I have had no vibration problems as of yet.I do not have extended yokes or spacers.Yes,I probably need them(the front mostly,Back seems fine)I also own the first gen kit,the one ZOOKY use to run.(no spacers).You say your angles are off.did someone do this?Mine is fine with the set up the way it is, Why are yours off?Hope you get it straight,Matt

88 Sam I AM(AKA-THROTTLE MONGER)- 1.3+.030,cam,462gears,locked,5in Calmini,2"body
31-10.50's.Yankee-offroad-Hood latches,Bumpers,Rails and armour,Tracker seats.................ECT.....

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Not sure as to why, it looks like everything is stock, no tampering that I can see.

JEEPN
Winter Harbor, Maine
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled, It's a Jeep, Chevy, IHC kinda thing!
'88.5 Zuki, 5" Calmini, Locked, Swamped, Rolled, and just generally broken in right!

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

I didnt have any problems with that lift either Matt.

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Jeepn, I run both versions of the 5" lift, the regular and HD and do not have those symptoms either.

Scott Whitmore
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." Dalai Lama

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Matt, I believe yours is a Gen II kit.

Yankee Tim/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

when I ordered that kit (Matts), actually it was the upgrade kit,I already had the 2" S/R, I had to wait for it because it was a new product. Its got to be the GEN1 kit, or at least I would think so.

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

The only real difference between the two are the leaf packs. The newer ones have 5 leaves and the fronts moved the spring center 1" forward. Matt has 5 leaves in the rear, but 3 or 4 up front. It looks like 1 or 2 leaves were removed. I remember you saying that you were keeping the driveshaft spacers. If so, those were used with the GEN 2 kits as the axle moved forward. I think that may be the case as Matt's front shaft has plenty of spline showing (and has pulled apart).

Did you get rear boomerang shackles with either the S/R or the upgrade?

Yankee Tim/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

I got the spacers myself from RRO. I got regular shackles. I dont remember how many leafs there were but I didnt remove any. By the way, whats going on with Zookin'Y2K1?

 

Re: Vehicle vibration when taking off.

Zookin-2k+1 what are the dates? We going for columbus day weekend? (My brother-inlaw will be flying out for it.)

Glenn
87' Zook Spoa,M/L 33's, 4.16 tcase,4.62 gears Camo,Header,2"exhuast, Cam.
Lockers, 8klb winch, -Wildweasel2 NE4WI- club http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html