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Re: Ugly?!

last i checked..and it was about three years ago so things could have changed since then....the military humvee was not able to be registered for street use as per the US Government saying they were not designed to be used on the street and they werent going to sale them to the civilian population. Now I know you can buy them from some aftermaket (non-military-government) supply places. Those places sale military surplus stuff. There is a place about 40 minutes from my house that does this...hell they even have a military helocopter forsale.... but when I had the money..and inquired about them....I weas told that it wasnt able to be registered...so i passed it up. They really arent bad rigs...the ruchy rich yuppie types drive them mainly as a status... but I would much rather own a Mercedes Unimog Crewcab. My wife likes the humvee...i seriously thought about getting that last one because it was a good price and we could at that time afford it. And I wanted to make some cook stuff for it.... and like i stated...i spent 14 years in the military and humvee's. For the same money you can do Way better with a G-wagen and have a better resale value if you decide to sale it later on down the road. That G-wagen will take you anywhere you want to go.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

Why?
Wouldnt you want the whole package? Why just the looks? There are some odd looking kits out that convert the looks of some rigs to a humvee style. But if it were me I wouldnt settle for less then the whole package... ask around....infact call your local DMV and ask them. As they will be who you need to go thru anyway. Orrrrr...you can go the Unimog Crewcab.... Yaaa...Unimog Crewcab....ohhh...ahhhh... Ok Im back from the dreamworld now.... There is also a guy out of Washington State that sales them fully restored...or he will convert a 404 soft top to a dualcab soft top....i saw some photos and they looked pretty good...i think those started about 11000 usd fully restored and converted.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Re: Ugly?!

I would think the parts for a mog would be devastating on the wallet. I know the Hummer conversion would only look good, but hey, if you got a great set up in the running gear, why not dress it up nice.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

actually mog parts arent too bad - a lot of them cross over to the sedans, and if you know a good wholesaler, they can be cheaper than a 'normal' truck.

that said, if I had my options, and the same sort of $$$ - I'd get one of these rigs. Its not a mog..but the same basic family of vehicles. ( Mogs, Volco C303's, Pinz's..they're pretty much in league of their own !!)



chris
 

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Re: Ugly?!

ya the Pinzgaür are nice rigs...i might do a canvas top like the soft top pinz on my 4runner. hmmm? wonder how much one is and i can cut and sew it as needd for my own rig.

dave
 
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Re: Ugly?!

LAst 4 wheeler mag had the stats for a rock comp. Their was a UNIMOG, it was 14 out of 20 in the comp. I like the unimog, try to find all the info I can, but man are you non jeep guys arrogant. Money and determination you can't beat a $2,000 xj or a $3,000 CJ7, or even a $1,000 sammi. Now buy a TLC or even a 20,000 UNIMOG, I could take the CJ7 put unimog axles, a viper V10, any type of tranny I wanted, 44's TSl's, Full tubed chassis, coil over shocks on all fours, and all the emergency gear I could need and be 8,000 or more less than 20,000. TRail rigs are built not bought.

What is the single cab UNIMOG, isn't the smallest style, what would be its wheelbase?
 

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Re: Ugly?!

First off, dont get me wrong - properly set up, jeeps are great competition vehciles...but like any other racing or competition vehicle, they dont do well outside the specific set of rules/criteria they're built to. You build a rock-crawler, and then try towing a 3500+ lb trailer with it ..all day...at highway speeds. How goods a Sniper as a grocery getter? whats the heater on a shannon buggy like for doing the MacKenzie Ice road run? ( 1200 miles, no fuel, no services..and -50*C temps). Can I fit 4 hiking packs behind the back seat on a TJ? the more you specialise a vehicle, the more holes there are in what it can do...and thats the normal Jeeps downfall..short wheelbase+limited internal space+low gears+flexy suspension in a rig that isnt originally built that way = BIG compromises. If jeeps were so damn good, the jeep slogan -'real jeeps are built not bought' wouldnt have to apply, now would it?? I DID notice that the bulk of the upgrade parts you listed would come off of vehicles on this forum though...ever think about what that implies for thses rigs?. that Pinz I posted pic of comes from the factory like that - camper option and all. Its not meant as a toy, or a weekend camper- its for people who work, and live in the sort of places Jeeps find a challenge. They may not do it fast enough, or elegantly enough to win competitions, but like mogs, C303's, and others in the same vein, they'll do it day, after day, after day without breaking, or complaining.

As for 'we're arrogant here? - no. arrogant is the typical Jeep guy who comes on other boards to tell us that we're all idiots, and that Jeeps are better. Have you ever SEEN (1st hand) the rigs we're talking about, side by side with a modified Jeep to make any sort of informed comentary??

chris
 

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Re: Ugly?!

arrogance...lol...hahaha.... no arrogance is the pouser jeep guy at work... he has a jeep that is at least two years old....has all the rock protection on the rig.....has a lift kit....bigger offroad tires....wheel locks....all the stuff you can ever even think about using on a rock crawling jeep...well, when i looked under the rig he didnt have lockers install, not arb or cable lockers anyway..he must have spent a good furtune on this stuf....and his custom license plate says somethinbg like ROKCRAWLR... what a frickin joke.... first off the body looks show room floor clean....his frame has zero mudd on it...the thing looks like it is parked in the garage everyday....not even any dust...zero dents...zero scratches....etc.... guess what...there are a million of these type of jeeep guys driving around with "THE LOOK".. are there land cruiser guys like this? You betch there are....but you know what....almost every land cruiser owner I know....or have ever known...takes their rigs offroad...and they dont have to change out their axles...motors...transmissions...tcase... or modify their rigs for offroad use....some do...some like the power of a chevy...because the TLC F series motor is a tractor motor and is known world wide for longevity and reliability....my last one went to almost 400,000 US miles on the factory bearings and still had compression of 110 psi per cyclinder.... I have yet to see any jeep do this on a consistant basis....maybe a few..but this is every day life in the toyota world.....i have traveled all over the world....more then one time...more then twice... I speak from experience in that I have wheeld in places other then my home city or home state...or my own country. I have been to Africa three times and have wheel there....i didnt see one jeep....I have been to Austalia and wheel'd there...didnt see one jeep...even though i know they have them there.... I paided just over 5000 dollars for my FJ62 which in its stock form kicks any cherokees butt offroad....this is a proven fact...they have to place a 4inch lift just to sit level with my rig. Is the FJ62 a big and heavy beast...yes it is....is it slow...yes it is...but you want to get from point A to point B with your family safely in any condition...you will... i have witnessed countless numbers of cherokee's flipped over on the highway or offroad and on many of them the roof's had colapses to the seats....i have seen an FJ60 rolled at over 75mpg....the roof stayed intact.... every winter I can count on the first day of snow...driving to work in the morning and seeing at least two to three cherokees or othe jeeps abandond on the side of the road...eithr crashed or just left because they slide off the road and got stuck... and the majority had lift kits and mud tires. so arrogant? no... I am being realistic. Maybe a bit pridefull to because I have owned many different brands of 4x4's over the years and none of them in their factory form stood up to my TLC's. Same goes for the Unimog, the Pinzgaür, G-wagen, etc.... They are true offroad rigs. You dont have to change things out to make them work...unless you want to. And I have owned a suzuki samurai...nice rig...cheap and works great...the FJ40 is a bigger sami with more power and weigh..and beafier... so are jeeps ok...sure they are...but it is my own opinion...that the TLC for the same year and style...is a much better buy from the start. and i also have to say that cherokee..jeep wagon....isnt in the same class as the TLC wagon...so it really is kinda unfair for me to even compare them as such...but i did because people from the jeep world do this....if you want to compare a cherokee to a toyota...then the 4runner would be in the same class model as the cherokee.
 
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Re: Ugly?!

I think it's pretty funny that you talk about poseur Jeeps when you bring up vehicles like the G-wagon and Land Cruiser. Do you really believe that MOST people take these off-road? If I put that much money into my Jeep it would be twice the vehicle they are. Oh wait, nevermind, because now I can't go get groceries in comfort. What the hell is this forum? Are we talking about off-road vehicles or not? You also assume that this Jeep you saw didn't have lockers because you didn't see the cables. Now, is that a joke or did you really think that everybody uses air lockers? It's also funny that it takes Jeepers to get this forum actually talking. Take a look at how many posts are for Jeeps and then look at Toyota and tell me who takes their vehicles off-road more.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

1st - just cause in the US G-wagons, and Land Crusiers are expensive toys doesnt mean that they are elsewhere in the world . According to Benz factory #'s, 85% of all the G wagons ever made are diesel powered - that should tell you how few of the 'real' G-wagons there are in the US ( any Diesel G's in the US were private imports- they never even offer the HD versions for that market!!) Are you aware that the G-wagon is used as the frontline light duty vehicle by many armed forces?( 311 MX - I'd hope you do, if you're in the benz ELITE program, as you claim to be) I have no idea how the Toyota, or Rover numbers look for their functional vehciles..but I suspect its similar: they no longer offer the Defender in the N.American market , for example, and here in canada, we dont get any cruisers - just the new Lexus 4x4, whoch isnt the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

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Incidentally, the much loved 'bargain' jeeps you keep spouting on about cost a hell of a lot more than my Niva: at the time of purchase ('91) a 4 cylinder YJ 'Sahara' was about double what my Niva cost ($16,500 vs $8700) ... and I got full time 4x4, a 3500 lb tow capacity, and room behind the back seat for cargo. In Germany, a base G-wagon costs less than a TJ, ditto Rover in europe, and Land Crusier in Japan.
So to turn the jeep question around on you: why are you driving that expensive piece of herd instinct yuppie status machinery with all the plastic, and chrome on it?? arrogance? showing off? trying to fit in?

thanks for the input - go back to the herd, and let the non conformers have their forum back.

chris.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

I paided 600 dollars for my first land cruiser.....i paid 1800 for my second...my third i paid 400 bucks...my fourth i paid 800....and bought a second off the same guy for 600 bucks....same cost? I think not....you really need to wake up.... a land cruiser will always be a better rig then a jeep...period. and the only pousers i see are all the jeeps (except for one) in my neighborhood of about 130 houses.....i have five jeeps on my street...none of them have ever been offroad....but hey they have the lift kit and the mud tires...shiny.. and a couple even have a winch on the front with a cover on it...wooooww... I guess thats to help them get out of a parking lot at the mall. lol
Every land cruiser i know does go offroad and that includes the 80 series. Now I do see more 80 series being driven onroad by people that just want a land cruiser to carry the family in? Does this make them pousers? I dont think so because they are all stock and dont have big oversized tires and lift kits on them. Most "are" driven by the mom in the family. I dont see anything wrong in this as I feel..as do many others...that the 80 series as well as other TLC wagons are extremely safe and a hell of a lot more safer then a jeep wagon. In my housing edition we have two toyotas which includes mine...they both get wheeled...and we have a nissan truck that gets wheeled...and there is a fullsized chevy blazer and a chevy 4x4 truck....a fullsized ford bronco.....these all get wheeled. The only one on my street is the nissan and he lives a few house down from me. He wheels his rig pretty hard. All the jeeps in our whole housing edition..besides the one I mentioned above...are all pousers because they do not wheel them...might get that chrome dirty you know...they are just into having "The Look" and that is what being a pouser is all about...having "The Look" and not using the rig for what you have built it for. I wheel everything I buy. I have owned several different types of 4x4's over the 20 years I have been wheeling. In that time I have never owned a winch....have I gotten stuck...dam straight I have...and you also right that during those times I wish I had a winch...but I do carry a shovel and other recovery gear and I dont mind freezin my arse off digging my rig out...and there have been times we have had to walk for miles to get to someones house we know...inorder to get out....and each time they would not allow us in the house because we were so muddy...from head to toe....but it always makes for a good story at the end of the day...and experience. Have I been stuck in a land cruiser...yes....the last time I was stuck I had a cable wrapped around my rear axle....it was linked to a post under the mudd...fricken tree huggers....anyway I had to climb under the rig...and hold my breath...feel around and get it off...took me a while.....then I rolled in a muddy water puddle to get most the nasty mudd off. Sometimes it is my aim to get stuck and get real muddy....as I am mainly into mud...climbing muddy hills...water crossings....wheelin thru clearcuts...streams.....etc...not much of a rock crawler although I have been thinking about that allot over the past few months.
My last TLC I paid 5000 usd for....It will outperform an 1988 cherokee and any other cherokee in stock form as mine was in stock form. I did look at buying a cherokee 1985 to 1991...because I can normally find a broken one...normally blown motor....and build it up....but from everyone I have spoken with the cherokee's between those years can not handle a chevy V8.... I was even told they would not handle a chevy 4.3...according to those on the jeep list I was told that I would have to change out the front and rear axles....the transmission...and even then the unibody would hold up under the conditions I wheel. This was a rig I would not have my kids in....like I said I have seen to many rollovers in cherokees and the front window frame rails always give out and crush. If I had it would need a full rollcage. You can say what you like...but dollar for dollar...the TLC wagon will always be better then a jeep wagon....and that is just a fact of life and always has been.

as for going off of posts? lol! give me a frickin break... you cant go off of posts to determine if a community wheels their rigs.... there are also other boards...and many people dont care about coming to BBS because they go on email groups. going off of posts to determine numbers of people that "actually" wheel their rigs... get real.
Oh and re-read my post about the pouser and his rig...and the lockers...he could have had lockers...i didnt say he didnt have them...i said he didnt look like he had them for the money he spent on this rig...because if he has spent that much money on this rig...then I would expect it to have cable or air lockers on it.... i bet he could have bought two jeeps for what he spent on the one.

These guys must be ghosts then eh?

http://www.tlca.org/clubs/index.html

http://www.toyotalandcruiser.dk/galleri/default.asp?TOPIC_ID=139

http://www.buschtaxi.de/

http://www.lcool.org/index.html

http://www.uppercanadacruisers.ca/members%20rigs.htm

http://www.off-road.com/tlc/readers_rigs/readers_rigs_1999a.html

http://www.sadtler.de/FJ55-GARAGE/fj55-garage.html

http://users.lavalink.com.au/benno/Play.htm

http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/results.asp?Search=FJ40

http://www.caracasjeepsclub.com/home.html
 

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Re: Ugly?!

anyway..to get off the lamers jeep argument...lets get back on track and talk about what "this" forum is about.... and that is Unimogs.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

I wouldnt mind doing what tim has done with the mog frame and the nissan truck.... I would like to do it with a mog frame and 4runner tub. Then use a mercedes diesel and other benz stuff.
 

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Re: Ugly?!

Hey Chris...talking about miltary rigs....look at this page for Land Cruiser military rigs...the fellow isnt the best informed when it comes to the actual reason the TLC was developed...as well as some other information on that page... but the pictures are cool.


http://www.brian894x4.com/MILITARYTOYOTAS.html
 

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Re: Ugly?!

I'd love to have a TLC for a daily driver, just to take the strain off of my Samurai on mileage . With the way I've built it , it's gotten to be too high maintainence to drive a lot of miles . Not to mention a spring over Sami on 33's isn't exactly comfortable . Only had to be towed once, due to a cheap generic wheel bearing , learned a lesson on that one . Toys, Mogs, Pinz's , ect have always proven themselves in some of the worst places on the planet , too bad Jeepers never see it .
Sarge
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Re: Ugly?!

Ok now I'm actually going to say a few things about unimogs instead of jeeps or tlcs. Ok first of what sticks out to me is saying that a mog will cost you 20k. You can find a mog for waaay cheaper then that. For example I found a 404 Radiotruck in Atlanta for 5000. The truck was in good running shape as far as I could tell. Granted I could get a jeep or something else for 1k but I am looking for a very solid stock vehicle that I don't have to put lots of money into to make a solid performer offroad. After I sell my old BII I am going to very seriously start looking for an older Unimog, preferably a crewcab albeit these are more expensive. I have found several in Atlanta, about 200 miles from my house. If anyone has real facts on how reliable a mog is I would really like to know. I haven't seen any information on the web such as sights that talk about fixing weak spots on mogs. Seems like one of the most difficult things would be changing the electrical system over from 24V to 12V if needed to run 12V accessories. Does anyone have good info I need to know to check out a mog before buying. Most trucks for sale say good shifting.. are the transmission or transfer cases suspect for breakage? If so are these hard to repair? I'm gonna go look around for new sites since the mog board here get like 1 post a month...
 

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Re: Ugly?!

yes you can find a mog for way cheaper then 20K..... I said 20K for one that has already been restored and has a nice paint job and normally with the highway transmission and is a crewcab.


You can find singlecab mogs for under 5000 all the time. there is also a company out of washington state that will convert a 404 single into a convertable double cab for about 11000.
 
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