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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't know if anyone else read this, but I just saw in one of my 4 wheel magazines that The Sierra Club decided to add Mountain Bikes to the list of environmental threats. Where will this end? Pretty soon these Wackos will try eliminate every type of outdoor recreation including hiking, horseback riding, and wait I'm sure canoeing, kayaking, and any thing else water related is going to be on the list. We already know how bad it is since our "fourwheeling" seemed to be targeted first, but maybe we will find allies in some of these other groups also being targeted. Well I had to vent my frustrations and I knew this forum would have plenty of sympathetic ears.

We all have to be involved!!

 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Mountain bikes have been considered a threat by most of your more extreme GAGS for many years. The key here is MECHANIZED
transportation. Heck, some of your very extreme groups don't even want PEOPLE in the forests.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There is an eco-terroist group that bombed/burned down Boise-Cascade and part of a ski resort in Vail. Total damages: almost 50million, loss of jobs, etc. They will not be happy until we all move back into caves and eliminate everything but bare feet.

How will we clothe ourselves? Can't kill an animal for food and clothing, that's bad. Can't cut a tree down to house ourselves. They won't stop, ever. We have to fight. We cannot meet them 1/2 way. We must be equally exclusive in our views. Nothing less will win the fight...

Jon-YJ94
I'd rather be...
[email protected]
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Look, I'm a relatively new Jeeper, just got my first Jeep in November, and I've been hearing about this Environmental Regulation this entire time, but I can't recall once where anyone has said "Here, send you check to this group and they are professional lobbyist or employ professional lobbyists to fight for our cause." Come on, this BBS stuff is weak if you ask me. What good are these posts doing? The only good we are doing by posting our gripes is to hopefully get ourselves riled up enough to start our own PAC. Who's gonna do it though? I work 50 hours a week, what about you? What about Chrysler? Warn? 4wd Hardware, the countless # of magazines and newsletters? When is someone going to stand up and take this bull by the horns and do something about it? All these companies and groups are going to lose MILLIONS if this type of legislation exists. What good is a 4 inch lift kit and the best suspension you can buy if you can use it offroad? It's friggin worthless cause it's useless. I'd like to see some of these big corporations step up and defend their interest to the max and get the rest of us involved in it. We don't have the time, money or man power on an individual basis to effect any sort of change in legislation. What's my measly little letter to my congressman gonna do? SQUAT! We need hundreds, thousands, even hundreds of thousands of Jeepers to send money, join the right clubs and get someone into the law making process and stop this from happening.

The Eco guys sure have their stuff together. Why don't we?

Anyone wanna work on this or are we all gonna stand by and cry later?

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm new around here, if so, inform me, I'll send a check out tomorrow to the biggest, best OHV supporting PAC out there... I'll do it tomorrow!!




 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Blue Ribbon Coalition seems to be our best bet, they work hard to make sure our voice is heard, also the AMA (American Motorcyle Association?) is very very active in trying to keep our trails open, at the last Roadless public comment meeting I went to the crowd was made up of probablly 75% AMA members and unfortunately very very few fourwheelers. Blue Ribbon also had a member/official there that was waaay more knowlegable on the subject than even the forestry officials running the meeting, he kept there lies in check.

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Letters from a district member help. Letters from those that live outside of the district don't matter.

I belong to Blue Ribbon, contribute to clean ups, send letters. I call my congressman and local representatives. I participate.

I must say, I believe that I have the right to use public land. While off-roading this weekend I noticed that there are more lines cut into the hills, more trails, more trash. More of everything bad we are accused of. Erosion is taking it's effect on these areas. The area is being destoryed. People do not stay on marked trails. There is no hope if people do not obey the laws of the BLM, etc. We need to fix the inside before we can fight for the outside.

The big three are currently owned by the Greens. We started a quasi PAC a few months ago, but it fizzled because of the reasons you listed.

This discussion should be moved to the land use -general board...

Jon-YJ94
I'd rather be...
[email protected]
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
United Four Wheel Drive Assoc. is also very active in this area. They currently have a pending lawsuit against the USFS. Also,
In my part of the country, the Southwest Four Wheel Drive Assoc. is very active. they currently are suing the BLM over land closures
in the Las Cruces, NM area. We just aren't quite as organized as the GAGS, but we're working on it. BTW, myself and another
wheeler (a GM owner) have been talking about trying to get permission to update the very stale ORC Land Use page and make it
more visible, and if that doesn't work, we may start our own. Read some of the posts on the Land Use boards, both of them, and
you will see more of where we are coming from and where we are headed.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Money talks guys, unfortunately, that's the truth in "politics". These ecopeace groups have been formed for 25 years or more and they have the cash they need to get the audiences with the right politicians and donate money to their campaign funds. I'd like to help, really I would. Whose gonna pay my bills while I lobby though? What we need is a really rich benefactor. Some retired guy that loves his jeep and has $100,000.00 in cash for us to start up. Hey, I'd work on it I could pay my bills while I was doing it. This BBS is a great way to get the word out, so are the mailing lists, but we have to have a clear, defined goal and a set of guidelines. We can't just go in and say "Hey, we still want to Jeep, sorry about the trash and loss of plant and animal life, but it's our right to offroad." That's not gonna work. LIke you said, Jon, we all have to agree on the way to go about this and then we have TO DO IT! No more trash, stay on the trails, respect nature. And if we can't do that, then don't we deserve to be banned from the trails? If you see the trash, pick it up. If you see someone dumping the trash, get their plate # and report it. In my opinion, if you leave your crap in the parks, you SHOULD be banned, or at least fined. We have to meet halfway. Have to say, "Hey, you are right, we need the natural resources. We agree, we don't want to destroy wildlife, but we do want to enjoy it, RESPONSIBLY." And then take responsibility for the actions of our fellow Jeepers who don't act in a responsible fashion. Be it a fine, or whatever. These are the guys that will ruin it for the rest of us if we don't make a contigency for them.

Alas, living in Florida, I can't take my Jeep out on the weekends and go rock crawling. I envy those of you who can and do. For my part, I'd like to ask all of you to please, please act responsibly in the mean time so that we aren't all SOL in the future.

BTW-- does the Blue Coalition have a website or address that I could write to?

Carl

 

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I gotta know.........what does a "green" drive to get to the wilderness that they survey for damage? Jeep.....Suburban......Trooper II ......and if so...do they feel it's okay (for them) because they do it for the "greater good"?

GeeAea





Figures don't lie ....... but liars sure do figure.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Around here, most of them seem to drive Subarus, you know, those wannabe 4bys. I'd say that the Subaru is probably the official
vehicle of Durango, there seems to be one in every driveway.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the link Brad, I'm there presently getting info on this subject.

 

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Yep, greens drive Subarus up here as well. You can tell them apart from anyone else. They drive subarus, their hair is frizzled (technical term) from all the berry juice they wash it with, and their car (note I said CAR) is littered with bumper stickers that say "Save our Mother".

Our jeep club is a member of United 4WD as well, we feel they're doing the most good for 4 wheelers in general and especially in our neck of the woods. We didn't join Tread Lightly this year because they've been so silent on the White Mountain National Forest issue up here. We know because we've been to all the meetings and they haven't. No sense paying a lame duck to sit around.

We have volunteered our help cleaning the WMNF, and spent a day with the Rangers cleaning culverts. We cleaned 139 of them (or 278 ends) in one day, the whole stretch of road that would have taken the Rangers 2 weeks. We also cleaned up all the trash along the road and a "parking" area. They were extremely greatful, and I'm sure they'll pass the good word up the chain. If the voice is coming from both sides (ours and the people who actually work in the park), it's more effective. One other thing we do, since we wheel mostly on private land, is install gates for the landowners. I know this seems counterproductive, but it keeps out the litterbugs and weekend 4 wheelers doing the damage. The landowners like it and we have even had one go to bat for our club when someone else was badmouthing us. We always pick up trash and in the fall erect water bars to prevent erosion, we also keep the trails/roads open for the landowner. Some of the trails are only accessable in the winter, making sure the ground isn't disturbed.

Oh yeah, we put on car washes in the summer, well, the kids at the school do, but they wash the jeeps at a fire station (free water) with a hose for a donation (we let them know when to put it on). The one in Eustis in November netted the 4th grade class $450, which, of course, made the local paper, more positive publicity. We also helped out during the ice storm a few years ago. We have very specialized rigs, which could get to places emergency and assistance vehicles couldn't. We opened three roads the town manager said they wouldn't have been able to get to for over a week due to their remote location. We also volunteer our club at the local fire stations, we can carry the water and hoses into the woods other vehicles can't go, even the fire department Willy's and 2.5 ton truck have problems. All this gains public support and usually makes the paper. It's a slow process, no doubt about it, but it's also one, that when gained, is nearly impossible to reverse.

If EVERYONE does their part, not just with money, the word will get out. Hell, I was driving to another job site last week and passed a 70 year old lady trying to chip the ice and snow from her driveway. I turned the Mazda around (it says JEEPN on the plate), stopped, and started shoveling and chipping her driveway for her. She was surprised and very greatful, invited me in for tea and to get warm (it was about -10 with the wind chill). Come to find out it was a friends house and she stopped by because she hadn't heard from him. He had slipped and fallen while trying to shovel the steps, injuring his hip. He couldn't get around to call for help. The neighbors thought he went away because they saw no movement around the house. Anyway, made me feel good, and when she asked who I was, I told her my name and said I was from the local jeep club, just driving by and thought she might need a hand. The smile on her face was worth the 1/2 hour and frigid temperature. I'm sure she'll tell everyone about it, I always beep on my way by.

Sorry for the rant, I tend to babble sometimes.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7" Lift/33" Swampers/D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You're making me cry over here! Seriously though, that's what I'm talking about, good hearted wholesome deeds to help stop the onslaught of negativity that is winning the battle right now. Right on man! I also participate in coastal cleanups of beaches here in Florida, although not previously with any Jeep clubs, as I just got into this.

Anyone have a lead on a Tampa area Jeep club for me to get into? I'd love to do my part and help the Jeepin community at the same time..

L8r..


Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Have you been to the sierra club website? Those pansies are into everything. They have an article urging couple to have only one child. There is another article urging us not to shop on thanksgiving. And not to eat a big turkey dinner because people in other countries have less. They even support the "Lilith tour". I think this must be drived by a bunch of gay liberals trying to find there identity. It's people like this who voted in Clinton.

Man I hate these people.

just my 2 cents.

-Jason the Angry Mailman

 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you know everyone has good points here, but what i can't figure out, is that there is all this stuff going on so that u can't drive ORV's here and there but how do we get to visit all this beautiful closed off land if we can't even drive to it?

(\/)ikey
1988 Wrangler Laredo 4.2L w/5spd Manual
1995 Wrangler 2.5L w/ 5spd Manual-dixie horn
 

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According to the land grabbers, we aren't supposed to visit it...just save it for future generations (remember..."think of the children"). I seriously doubt that if the land is closed today, that it will be reopened for my children to see!

Mike H.
1983 CJ-7 Laredo
1999 Dakota 4x4
/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gifo[[[[o
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
We can see that land only from 15,000 feet in a chopper by watching the new "greenpeace" channel... heheh...

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 

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Nope flying over there will be not permitted, because of the noise it makes and potential of the aircraft to crash into it... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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