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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Boy, I haven't been over to that "other" BBS for quite a while, and there have been a lot of posts about how the forum is handled. The format is slightly different, but the biggest difference is that the BBS is primarily a consultant's page where you ask questions for the 4 X 4 expert to answer. CLEARLY, it would be tough to find the time to run a BBS like that, fix Jeeps, sell and ship Jeep parts, attend trade shows, etc., etc. It would be VERY tough. Some of the regular posters seem to be beating up on people who ask the same question that has been asked previously.....many times. An example would be the question: "Does a 360 head fit on a 304?" or something to that effect. There were also some real sparks exchanged about someone asking about one-piece axles, and I'm sure bad feelings were the result. AS I HAVE SAID SO MANY TIMES....there IS no threshold for Dumbness Of Question. There IS the laziness factor, however, like the guy dialing information too lazy to crack open the phone book, or in the case of a Jeep BBS, to do a search. FORTUNATELY, this BBS is structured such that person-to-person info can easily be exchanged without really getting the whole board involved. In that case, you have the opportunity for recently-enlightened Jeepers to pass along recently-gained knowledge to a less enlightened Jeeper and it doesn't really waste anybody's time or space.....people teaching people.....Jeeper to Jeeper. To the credit of the 4 X 4 expert on the "other" BBS, you can now buy a complete Dura-Spark/Ford upgrade kit from him in addition to the GM HEI conversion. It looked like it was kind of a bumpy ride there for a while, but the BBS did survive, hurt feelings and all. Even though these boards are all about 4 X 4s, they are also about PEOPLE, and pride, and......well..........you get the idea./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 
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Hey Dave, you're right. I can't even think of the true really dumb question just to give you a hard time. Oh yeah, I just thought of one, what's the best way to lower my Jeep? /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
Get involved or lose it all, the choice is yours!
 
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Everyone has to start some where. I too can remember when I first started posting on these forums and how confusing they seemed. I had no idea how to navigate "archives" or how to post for that matter.
I have little tolerance for other posters that call someone stupid for asking a question that may have been answered a 100 times in the past. Those of us that hang out here and there see these repetative questions all the time and we have to realize that there are a lot of first time jeepers out there that just need help getting started.
Good point CJDave.
Mizu

 
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Mizu, you are absolutely right. But, it is probably a good idea to point out that the question has been addressed in the past and where to look for it because there are probably going to be answers or comments not offered this time around.

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
Get involved or lose it all, the choice is yours!
 
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I agree, If you approach it that way, the poster is learning something and is better for it.
Mizu

 
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The best way to lower your jeep?

It's a tie: (1) drive it over enough broken glass to give it four flats; OR (2) take it into a low ceiling parking garage at about 20 mph.

OOOPS! You asked for the BEST way and I gave you the FAST ways.

Sorry.

Bone stock rigs: '81 CJ7, '96 ZJ. Moab every summer!
 
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Let me tell you a story that isn't quite dumb question related but is NEW off roader related and the two are kinda related.

Had a meeting of my 4x4 club tonight. Our club is a member of Southwest Four Wheel Drive Association. SWFWDA has quarterly meetings that are really 4x4 off road adventures with a 20 minute "official" meeting thrown in there somewhere over the 3 day weekend. The last quarterly was in Las Cruces, NM. Some really rough, tough wheelin' if you want to do it and some much milder trails too for rigs with less than a hundred thousand dollars worth of mods. /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif
Our club - in Houston - picks up a new member or two each month. Houston is 800 miles from Las Cruces. One of our very new members (maybe only a member a month or two) went to Las Cruces. He did not know anyone, was new to wheeling and was driving some kind of 4x4 of Asian ancestry. I'm not being funny here cause I really don't know what it was, but I think it was something like a completely stock 4 wd station wagon of some kind. Am sure it wasn't the normal crawler like a Jeep, Toy, Defender etc. I think it was more like a street type 4x4, but I could be wrong. Just keep in mind that whatever it was, it was stock, and the driver was a newbie - and old - and alone. Am not even real sure that I know the driver, but I am sure he was an older man, retired and maybe even a widower.
First trail day he gets assigned to the wrong trail. He probably asked for a mild or easy trail, but he wound up on a hard one. Las Cruces rates it's trails from 1 to 5. 5 being traversable in a helicopter or a well equipped hovercraft. 5s are called "extreme", 4s are "hard". A hard trail requires 33s, double lockers, winch, VERY low crawling gears and a complete disregard for body damage, and like I said, you can get across 5s in a helicopter.
Anyway this guy winds up on a hard trail. The trail leader didn't catch him at the start, or he would not have allowed him on the trail at all. The following is the info I get from my club members who were there. I missed this run.
An hour or so into the trail - maybe less - the trail stops this guy. According to the people I talked to, he seems a bit afraid, he can't go any further (don't know whether or not it was an off camber situation, big bolders, ledge or what, but he can't go any further). The trail leader sends him back because he isn't equipped to handle the trail. This is no reflection on Las Cruces. They have a policy of - if you can't make it, or we can get you rolling in just a few minutes, then it's your responsibility to get yourself out of this mess. Other trails are just the opposite. Something happens and everyone stays and helps until everyone is able to continue. Personally, I kinda like the Las Cruces policy for two reasons. I know the run will continue, and we do not have to wait for the break downs, AND there are always enough of my own club members on the trail that should something happen to one of us, the rest of our club will stay behind to help and let the rest continue, but here's this new guy on possibly his first outing on a trail that he should not have been on with people he only met that day or maybe one day a month ago. He went back to the motel.
Some of the club members (my club) had dinner with him that night. Most of us who have been on the trails for any length of time know that a days run NEVER goes without a hitch. Part of Jeepin' is KNOWING that something will break or something is going to get screwed up. That's to be expected. That's part of the "Jeep Thing". If everyone reading this would send me $1,000 for every scheduled run they attended that actually started on time, I would not have enough money to buy a cup of coffee. Anyway they explained to this new guy that things got messed up from time to time, and they would make sure that he got on the right trail the following day. The following morning one of our club members ran across the new guy at breakfast. The new guy gave the club member his dinner ticket and said he was headed back to Houston. At this point, that is all I know. I am going to try to contact this guy tomorrow, Sunday.
May not be able to salvage a club member. He may not even be the kind of person who belongs in 4 wheeling, but all of you by this time should have a bit of a twitch or tug inside of you that says, "This didn't work out right. This one slipped through the cracks, or something happened that should not have happened. This isn't what wheeling is all about."
I may be a bit close to this. I'm 61, lost my wife 3 years ago to cancer, and started wheeling seriously in '97 without any real 4x4 related experience like lockers, axles, off camber etc. My background has made that transition very easy, but I can still relate quite easily to having recently lost a wife and doing something I had never done before and doing it all ALONE.
Now, to relate this back to Dave's comments about dumb questions. Newness has nothing to do with age. It only has to do with starting a new thing. I have years and years of experience in other things that make getting into 4 wheeling a relatively easy step. Not that I am smart necessarily. It's just that I have been close to there all my life. If I wanted to get into opera, I would not have any more advantage than a 6 year old. CJDave is relatively new to JEEPS, but his life experience is closely enough associated that he can talk Jeep like an expert - and probably IS an expert.
I have no idea what the background of the guy in this story is. He may have been an accountant for 35 years. That isn't really Jeep related. He may have been a mechanical engineer for that same 35 years and could step into the Jeep thing rather easily even though he built battleships for 35 years. The point is - the new guys, the inexperienced guys, the ones just getting involved in off roading or Jeeps, may have a small learning curve or a very big learning curve. Part of the Jeep Thing or the off roading thing is bringing the new people along, helping them, passing along experience and knowledge. That's as much a part of the Jeep Thing as knowing which gears go with which tire sizes. Give the newbie the benefit of the doubt. Answer his dumbass questions and be helpful. Don't look down your nose at him and don't treat him as a dumbass. He might be, but later on he might NOT be.
One last thought about the guy in Las Cruces. Think about the trails you have run. Just sit there for a second or two and visualize a few of them. Now, put yourself in the place of this new guy. You have driven a little over 800 miles with some kind of expectation, you are alone, you don't know enough to ask questions and you don't know anyone, but you, you who are reading this, you can look in your mind and see and remember the trails you have run - what kind of feeling do you have for this guy now - knowing what is out there, knowing what the trails are, and also knowing that this guy turned around and went home? Knowing all that, what could you have done that would have made this guy's trip worthwhile?
I am not implying that anyone did anything wrong. Our club members have hearts as big as all outdoors. This story was told to me first because I am the vice president of the club and just happened to be in charge of the meeting because the president was out of pocket, and secondly and more importantly the story was told to me because the members involved in it had a heavy heart and were concerned for the new member. He was not at tonites meeting. None of them realized that he would leave Las Cruces before the weekend was over. All of them were accostomed to things happening on the trail and were well aware that those types of things were to be expected and not out of the ordinary at all, but the new guy was ..... well, he was new to all of this.
Just some thoughts. Thanks for listening. Just one more - this guy, if he is who I think he is, is probably a father and probably a grandfather too. At least he appeared to be that age. Insert your own father or grandfather into this story. That's all. Thanks again.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 
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Amen! Well spoken Doug. We should nuture along all prospective wheelers who show an interest. The enjoyment and life experiences of off roading that this gentleman might have had and passed on to his offspring ( and on down the thread order) might be lost due to this one bad experience. Sometimes it only takes one. We need to be patient and diligent in answering the posts of anyone on this BBS. The poster may be new to both wheeling and computers, so telling him to do a query on past posts may not help in all situations. If someone is tired of seeing a question asked over and over, just don't open that thread. Let someone else who might offer help to a newbie answer the question. I just don't feel that negative replies that might make someone new to wheeling feel stupid for asking something that might have been answered here umpteen times is good for the BBS or wheeling in general. We are all ignorant- just about different things at different times. Keep on Wheelin'

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif VERY well put, Doug......very well put. It is SO important to be aware every minute of what's going on with the other guy. You just NEVER KNOW where he may be at that moment. What I have found over and over is that in order to help you out, God doesn't usually act directly, but will DIRECT YOU such that you bump into the exact person with the exact message or attitude or activity that WILL help you. We need more off-road guys like you, Doug./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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I really appreciate you all taking the time to answer the same questions over and over. I'm new to jeeping and jeep building, and this BBS has been an invaluable asset. Sometimes guys don't know what to search for i.e. what I would pick for a keyword is not always what I should be picking.

Everything I have done to my jeep since I bought it last October was done by myself. Includes tranny swap, 4" lift, head removal and replacement for valve job, new seats, steering wheel, exhaust work. Everything was going to be done by other people (mechanics), until I got some courage and knowledge here. It was here that the term "jeeps are built, not bought" finally turned on the light in my head.

And you all are right. Doing it yourself brings a tremendous amount of satisfaction. Not to mention skinned knuckles and greasy fingernails. Prior to my jeep ownership, the only thing automotive I'd ever done was change oil. Now I still don't know anything, but that's okay cuz CJDave is just a few keystrokes away.

So thank you all for taking the time to pound your keyboards.

Max

82 CJ7, 258, T-18, 4" bigger & size 33 shoes
 
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A lot of good points were brought out. Doug you are so right, just imagine if it was your father or grandfather.

There are no dumb questions and just telling someone to do a search is just as lazy. Maybe the newbie doesn't know his way around this site...or...some threads take a twist from the title topic and may contain some valuable info that could be missed in a search.

If you have nothing nice to say then ignore the post. There is nothing worse than posting a question..seeing that someone has responded to your question..being excited to see that someone has taken the time to help you only to see...we had a discussion awhile back concerning the same thing, do a search. How discouraging is that. At least tell the person or offer to tell them how to search.

I come here for more technical info...first...and second is the comraderie of sharing Jeep info.

I don't have a lot of tech info to pass on but if someone asks a question I can answer I will take my time to do the best I can or point the person in the right direction, whether it be someone else's web site that I had stumbled across or a manufacture site.

The first question I asked here I got a reply back that took a little wind out of me and it was by one of the veterans (whose info I have come to respect immensely).

And this is a great site to come and hang out and I thank all who are helping in my Jeep education and please bear with me as at times I am a little slow (duh)..Jeep wise that is.

Cutch 88YJ
 
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