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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi, first post on the jeep board, so here goes. in the near future, i will be more than likely purchasing a jeep. i got a few questions though. the cj model is the one i will be looking at, either a 5 or a 7. what are the advantages of each and disadvantages? also, i will likely be lifting the jeep to clear 35's, so how much lift will i need to comfortably fit these tires. the jeep will probably be driven 60% road and 40% off-road, but i also have to deal with canadian winters. i've been looking around, and from what i have seen some of the jeep hardware changed in 1980. which is the better transfer case between the two (dana 20 and 300)? how much can the transmissions from 1980 on take? manual or standard, doesn't matter. what about pre-80? the t18a seems to be the best all around transmission. how about the quadratrac transfer case? i've heard the chains arn't that great in it? i don;t want a 3-speed stick, so how hard is it to swap a transmission, say a th350, or 400? also, if i swap a chevy small block in, is there any jeep that it bolts up to? well thats about it, thanks for any responses!

Keith
89/91 cr 125
89 Yamaha SRV
 

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ok keith.. man you dont want much.. kidding.. to clear 35's you will need a minum of 4" of lift, and yes they changed in 80, between the 300 and the 20, basically the same, but the 300 has a lower gear in it, not by much. d20 low is 2.03 d300 low is 2.62. t-18 is about the strongest tranny amc made, but a d300 wont bolt up to one, unless you get an adapter ($500). the t-5 i have had and a riend has had one behind a built 304 for a year now with no problems. but they are considered weak. the quadratrac is a good unit, heavy duty. the chain problem is that they stretch and will slip. ($100) for a new chain. they are really good if you get one with the low gear reduction unit on it. it was like a $1000 dollar option back in the day. if you want a v-8 my best advice would be to get a late 70's jeep with a 304. the quadratrac jeeps had an offset rear axle, and if you change the transfer case you will have to change the axle also. one last thing.. the t-18's that came in cj did not have the granny low like the trucks and wagoneers did. cj t-18 1st=4.02 while the others where 6.32.
and no chevy motor bolts to anything amc unless you get an adapter. even the turbo 400 is different in the amc jeeps.

survival is instinct, but living takes guts
 

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As far as comparing the CJ5 and the CJ7......

The 5 has the shorter wheelbase so it rides a lot worse. Also the length of an automatic trans is hard to fit into it. Hartops are scarce for them. There is not much room inside them. They are supposed to be a little more nimble off road.

I guess I must like the 7.....

If you decide to swap for a Chevy or Ford V8, be prepared to spend your money. Adapters are needed and they're expensive.

Loose nut behind the wheel
Another right-wing conservative.....
Born and raised in Jeep-Town
 

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CJ5s compared to CJ7s..

for mostly on road Id have to say get a 7, ive got a 5, its small..

the transfercases are a draw, between 1980 and before.
the transmissions used after 1980 arent near as strong as the ones used up until 1979.

the best transmission ( In my opinion)being a 77-79 T18a 4 speed, factory option, only behind 6 cylinders in CJ series, its a 6.32:1 1st gear granny low transmission made by Borg and Warner and is damn near impossible to tear up..the low 1st gear is awesome off road too, just idle up and over stuff

for 35 inch tires and much offroad usage your probably going to need upgraded axles anyhow.
as far as the Quadra track, its handy if you drive in alot of snow because of the fulltime 4x4, the fluid is really expensive it has an aluminum case, and a chain, some folks would call these features weaknesses, and as mentioned early it has a funky offset rear axle.
it was either only available behind a GM built TH400 automatic tranny, or a very RARE option behind a stick ( ive never seen one with a stick)

another thing to keep in mind on engine swaps, a CJ5 is just barely long enough, with an automatic tranny the rear driveshaft gets really short.



OzarkJeep
In need of a T18 tranny!
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have had both the CJ 5 and 7. Even though I like the looks of the 5, the 7 better-more room-more options (hardtop a big plus). Just wanted to add that the CJ axles in '82 and up were wider by 2", so that might be a feature of interest. All in all I would look for something later than the '76s because they have the latest CJ styling that continued to 86 and better heater design. I guess the later the model the better. But note that the mid-82 and later models have much more vacuum hoses (emissions).
Peace,
Chase

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thanks to all that replied. i checked at the advance adapters website, and the price for the adapter plate for a 350 to a t18 is $273, which seems pretty reasonalbe to me, considereing i already have a 350. you say that only the 6 cylinders came with the t18, what did the 304 come with? also, who makes the best 4 inch springs? and what about the shackle reversel i keep reading about? i read at more's site that it does not add any lift, is this true? once again, thanks in advance

Keith
89/91 cr 125
89 Yamaha SRV
 

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very few 6 cylinders came with a T18, thats teh kicker hard to find one! it was an option

late 70s 304s came with a 3 speed T150 tranny, pretty strong, dime a dozen, and suckatola 1st gear ratio!

if yougonna go GM engine go ahead and get a chevy granny truck tranny, they are just as good as a T18, and easy to find, and NO ADAPTER to go behind the engine!

like a SM420, or SM465
420 is older, hard to find parts for, but really cheap and common, as is the sm465 both are strong as hell

OzarkJeep
In need of a T18 tranny!
 

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go with what ozarkjeep said.. but if you really want a t-18 behind it.. i think i might have an adapter here.. would have to look.. and see what it is. i know its for a chevy motor to an amc tranny... not sure what tranny is bolted up to it..

survival is instinct, but living takes guts
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yikes! i looked at the transmission adapter prices and their over $500! if i go to a GM tranny, i will go with a turbo 350, because we have a bunch of them. how much is a used t18? will any t18 work? if a t18 cost's less than $500, then will definealty the way i go, if i can't find a jeep with one already in it. and about gm standards, how does everything hook up? like does the clutch pedel and everything work? and finally, if i change a stick to and auto, where do i put the shifter? on the floor? thanks again

Keith
89/91 cr 125
89 Yamaha SRV
 

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used T18s from $150 to $1100, the short one youll want for a CJ is toward the upper end of that range , but most T18s can be converted to be short for approx $200, see the KEY is a 6.5 inch input shaft on a T18, that makes it usuable in a CJ

if your dead set on a GM engine, your just about gonna have to have an adapter somewhere in the driveline..

My opinion would be to build an AMC engine, a 360 is pretty common ,grand wagoneers had them until 91/92 and they are cheap enough, will bolt in to any CJ 70s and up, and then you have V8 power, and you can buy/build a T18 from parts instead of dumping $500 on an aluminum adapter, youll spend $500 on a bulletproof tranny and still use factory JEEP transfercase if you go GM engine/tranny your most likely going to end up needing another $500 to get hte transfer case to hook up, and all those adapters arent only pricey they ad length.

I think, that in most cases if you require an adapter in your driveline your probably using the wrong stuff to begin with..

OzarkJeep
In need of a T18 tranny!
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Forget the 5 or 7 and get an 8. About 10" larger wheelbase(i.e. don't worry about driveline angle when you swap in your V-8), much better ride on the highway at speed, can fit 3X as much gear for camping. It does have a long rear overhang but if it really bothers you you can just "bob" it.

Later

Bakes
83 Scrambler
http://www5.ewebcity.com/4x4trails
 

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yes.. if you switch to an auto.. then you would put the shifter on the floor.. which means more moola for the shifter.. i would go with a 360 with a t-18 and a d20.. all bolts together.. and you can find that combo in alot of wagoneers.. and jeep pickups..

survival is instinct, but living takes guts
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
wow, topics get buried pretty quick around here!! anyway, as i see it, i'll look either for a jeep with a t18 in it already, or find one with a 304 and swap the t18 in. how much can a decent 304 be picked up for? was the t18 used in any other vehicle that would work, or just buy the special adapter piece thingy? also, i can see the axles arn't that heavy duty, any suggestions? what about a blazer dana 44 up front and a 12 bolt rear? there already SOA, so that solves my lift problems, but i'm sure there's some sort of hitch involved. i'm guessing that there too long, what's involved with getting axles shortened?? how does this affect driveshaft angles? oh yeah, does a t18 bolt up to a dana 300? just in case i end up getting a 80 jeep. thanks again

Keith
89/91 cr 125
89 Yamaha SRV
 

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You know...I have seen more 86 CJ's with the dana 44 then I have seen 76-79 CJ's with a t18...that makes about a 12 86's and 2
t18's...on another note...I got my t18 out of a "CJ"...I put quotes on it because it's a long but very lucky story! Just thought I'd
share a thought...


Alec

 

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yeah the factory 76-79 t18 CJ is really rare anymore..,most T18s wont bolt to a dana 300, the only one that will bolt up without an aftermarket adapter is really too long for a CJ.

you can buy any pre 1980 jeep you want and get a T18 in it for $500 or less..

the Chevy axles are too wide, its too expensive, and too hard to find spares for shortened axles in my opinion, get some late 70s non quadra trac wagoneer axles. move the front spring mounts, and bolt them in...

I think your first goal should be to buy the least rusty best running CJ you can afford, and well go from there..

OzarkJeep
In need of a T18 tranny!
 

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MORE's shackle reversal wont add any lift unless you get the buggy leaf kit. Bolt-on shackle reversal kits, however, will lift the front 1-2"
In the practice of keeping it simple, get a pre-80 Wagoneer and take the AMC 360, T-18, and D20 out of it and stick those into the CJ (7 hopefully.) Then get the axles from a 6-cylinder Wagoneer or Cherokee, which will have a Dana 44 in the front and a Dana 44 or AMC 20 (with the thick-walled tubes) in the rear and run 4.10 gears or so. The rear will already be SOA, but you'll have to move the front spring perches to the top of the axles. SOA and 2" lift springs will clear 35" tires just fine and give you plenty of flex. Enjoy your CJ with FSJ drivetrain and axles by telling us how it all goes!

 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
For that much lift, 35's, & a possible automatic, the nod goes straight to the 7. Get a hardtop for those Canadian winters, but don't expect to ever be warm in it (putting some carpeting and/or insulation on the floor will help a LOT). Keep an eye out for a TH400/20 combo to swap in. I'd recommend getting a 304/3-speed if you're planning to do a swap anyway. Just make sure when you find that TH400/20 combo that it's the AMC bellhousing.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 

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I'm partial to the CJ-8's as well, but if I had to choose between a 7 and a 5 like you do, I'd chose the 7. If you're looking to get into it right away and spend a lot of money on mods, do whatever you want. If you're looking to save money this is what I'd do.


You said you already have the 350, so let's start there. I'd get a running CJ-7, from '78 to '82. The '78 is the earliest I'd go due to the ability to upgrade the heater box ('77 was an option, or was it '76?) and the front disc brakes. The '82 would be the latest I'd go due to the addition of the cat and all the emissions crap. If possible, I'd stick to before 1980, which is when the 5 bolt hubs (weaker than the 6 bolts) came into play. The only tranny worth a damn in the 80's was the T-176, but the T-150 3 speed only had a 3:1 first. Anyway, get the jeep first, and make sure it runs well. While you're driving the jeep in it's stock form, gather the parts for the mods you want to make. It'll take time to decide EXACTLY what you want, you'll probably change your mind more than once. When you have the parts, do the mods.

I did this and learned a considerable amount. I bought my Scrambler for $700 and it was a piece of junk. I got it running and on the road, wheeled with it for a year while I gathered parts from many different sources. Finally I swapped them in when I had everything together. Keep in mind if you do it piecemeal it won't hurt as much and you can take time to do it right. Not having the cash on hand, I swapped out the SR-4 (junk)and D300 for an SM465 and NP205 (Which I bought complete for $250). No adapter needed as the GM151 (4 cyl offered '81-'83) has the same bolt pattern as the 350 (but you already have the engine). New driveshafts and I'm on the trail. At the same time I swapped in a pair of Scout II D44's that I had lying around. They can usually be had very cheaply and parts are reasonable for them, also very common. The stock axles will hold for while if you go to the 1-piece rear and are easy on the throttle.

I know of people who have awesome jeeps and still can't drive worth a crap. I'm not saying this applies to you, but I learned a valuable lesson from it. When I started driving off-road (oh, so many years ago), I thought I knew how to drive. I was wrong. By driving a stock vehicle I had to LEARN how to drive well, so when the mods came, the toughest obstacles were a breeze. I'm doing the same with JEEPNCHICK and her '47 CJ-2A. It'll be lifted 2.5" but open on the axles until she learns how to drive it well, then it'll get locked and modified. Remember, we'd all like to get up and run a marathon, but have to learn to walk first.

Good luck with your decision.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
four50four,
If you want to know about Jeep transmissions, engines, t-cases, etc. check out http://www.jeeptech.com. Terry Howe has just about everything you would want to know about what they came with and what works for conversions. Nobody has mentioned this, but Ford T18's are a dime-a-dozen in the wrecking yards and are actually easier to convert to most CJ's than the CJ T18. The ones that came in CJ's use a special bellhousing that is as hard to find as the trannies are. The Ford T18 will work with the bellhousing that came in 80% of the CJ's made in the late '70s and early '80s.
 
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