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Simple Question

866 views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  GRQster  
#1 ·
Does the 225 have an oil dipstick tube, or does the stick go directly into the block? Mine has an ill-fitting O-ring and goes directly into the block, but going up hills in low gear or at high RPMs, oil blows out past the dipstick. My friends 68 has a tube, but Ive seen others that dont.
Help please

70 in Boone, NC
 
#2 ·
I will probably have to take pic of this to have it make snse, but here goes. My Jeepster is a 68. It has a 7 inch or so tube that 'plugs' in to the block, and a tab to bolt it dowm with one of the exhaust manifold bolts.

My wife's 68 Jeepster has a dipstick that plugs directly into the hole in the side of the block. The dipstick is a little shorter, and has a stopper tab on it. When I had both dipsticks removed, I compared them, and they reach equal depths. I this there was just a 'better' way of doing it witht the later ones.

I think the only issue is being sure you hit the correct depth. This may or may not help/

Chris Jurden
Northwest Chapter, AJC
Sultan, WA
'68 & '69 Jeepsters
 
#3 ·
Blows out? The crankcase should be under sloght vacuum, not pressure. Check your PCV system, it's not handling the pressure. Or, your engine's really worn out. Bet you've got lots of oil leaks too from it.
Mine goes into the block directly.

98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"
 
#4 ·
My 69 has the tube like described in the earlier reply. I looked in my Jeepster Parts Manual and it shows one different for "with power brakes".

Tom
69 Jeepster
89 Suburban 4wd
00 Expedition 4wd
Image
 
#6 ·
RRich,
Ive redone the entire pcv system, and my motor was rebuilt about 4000 miles ago. I dont understand it! If the breather on the valve cover was defective (blocked) would that cause this, becouse it seems a little restrictive. Going up hills Im leaving a trail of thick smoke, its pretty embarassing!

70 in Boone, NC
 
#7 ·
Oil shouldn't be "blowing" out the hole, even if it doesn't have a dipstick or tube in it. I assume it's not overfilled?

The bottom end of the dipstick has another tube inside the block, guiding it safely past the crank. And - the crankshaft is slinging oil downward on that side (left) anyway. Even if the inside tube was accidentally left off during the rebuild it shouldn't be blowing out.

I left my dipstick sitting on the bench once, drove it about 30 miles, found it on the bench when I got back - no oil leak.

If oil is being forced out it has to be air pressure shoving it up the tube and out the hole.

Try this, warm the engine to operating temp - leave it running - take off the oil filler cap - RPM change any? It shouldn't.
Look at the place where you took off the cap - see fumes coming out? No? Good, it shouldn't be coming out if the PCV system is working right. Now rev it up, you still shouldn't see much if any, especially on a new engine.

Normally some combustion gasses still slip past the rings into the crankcase. The more an engine wears the more it happens - called blowby (blows by the rings.) Slight smoke is normal, it's actually oil vapor from heat and the oil getting thrown around so much inside, not smoke from fire.)

The PCV system sucks these fumes out and recirculates them into the manifold, burning them before we have to breathe them. The best thing about it is it takes no horsepower and keeps the engine clean inside - as long as it's working. The gasoline vapors that slipped past the rings too form sludge in the oil, not good.

Now remove the PCV Valve - leave hose connected to the valve, just pull it out of the grommet in the valve cover. Engine speed change? It shouldn't.
Put your thumb over the open hole in the valve - good vacuum? Should be very strong vacuum. If no vacuum find out why.
There are some valves that look right but inside they are backwards. The check valve inside stays closed, not open. The check valve is supposed to be free flowing normally, it's purpose is in case of backfire the masnifold is temporarily pressurized, flames could go down the PCV into the crankcase causing an explosion - not fun.
Check to make sure air is free flowiing up the hose into the manifold through a big hose made for PCV's. Regular hose will collapse, causing - well, like your symptoms. It should go directly to the big tube at the base of the carb in back, not the manifold tree.
Also it could be the wrong PCV valve itself with a smaller orfice - designed for a smaller engine.
"Redone?" Creative or with the correct stock components?

Now notice what happens to the open oil filler hole with the PCV disconnected. You normally will see slight wisps of fumes coming out, since the crankcase is now slightly pressurized from the blowby.
Rev it and see more, under load up that hill even more.

Clouds of smoke is not acceptable - a piston ring has failed - or the gaps are aligned. Try plugging off both holes (filler and PCV) and revving it up - oil flowing out the dipstick now? If it was pressure doing it before, it should do it more now.

Actually filtered air goes in one side of the engine - filtered by the air cleaner or a filter in the filler cap, then it flows through the engine to the other side where the PCV sucks it out - a nice draft inside.

I also wonder if maybe the valve cover is leaking, dripping on the dipstick making it look like that's where it's from - stranger things than that happen.

Good Luck, hope it's something simple.

98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"
 
#8 ·
thanks alot for your in-depth reply RRich-
to clarify, the smoke is not coming from my tailpipes indictating a bad ring, it is coming from the oil burning off of the exhaust manifold and pipes after it blows out the dipstick hole

I already replaced the valve cover gasket, that wasnt it

I have a different air cleaner than stock on my carb, so what I have is:

Passenger side cover-PVC valve with hose going to back of carb
Driver side-breather filter with hose leading to side of air cleaner
intake manifold vac. inlet to power brake booster

I noticed that if I take the driver side breather off, there is some smoke coming out, and when I changed the valve cover gasket there was some kind of brown deposit on the inside rear of the cover (sludge like)-maybe you can help me on that too.

Mybe not such a simple question!

70 in Boone, NC
 
#10 ·
RRich
I would send you a private message, but maybe someone can benefit from your advice

I checked everything as you instructed--good vac. at PCV, little smoke from oil cap, no change in RPM
My problem seems to be on the opposite (driver) side valve cover. I have a breather that is connected from the valve cover, via hose to the back of the air cleaner. There is very little vac. on this hose.
With the breather attached, oil blows from the dipstick hole, unattached it doesn't. The breather seems good (also without the breather there is significant blow by out of the breather's hole.

Now Im more confused than before--are the rings bad? How are most 225 valve cover breathers connected (if at all)
please help!!


70 in Boone, NC
 
#11 ·
Oh I figgured it wasn't smoke from the tailpipe, just oil hitting the exhaust from the dipstick.

"My problem seems to be on the opposite (driver) side valve cover. I have a breather that is connected from the valve cover, via hose to the back of the air cleaner. There is very little vac. on this hose."
-- Normal, OK so far.

"With the breather attached, oil blows from the dipstick hole, unattached it doesn't."
-- Good, now we know it's related to pressure in the crankcase, not splash or a leak. What happens when you plug the breather hole in the valve cover? Oil stops blowing out - I hope?

But the puzzle is the air should be going in the breather, not out. Putting it in the air cleaner just provides a source of clean air.
Attaching it to the air cleaner shouldn't change anything. The air cleaner with the lid on is a low pressure zone, not high - something's causing pressure inside the crankcase. The pressure is either from an out side source (hopefully) or inside (ugh.)

A shot in the dark - do you have an air injection pump? Could it be the source of high pressure air? Is the breather tee'd in with one of the hoses? Or is the pump connected to the crankcase in any way, or the breather? Or the back of the carb? If it is, try disconnecting it. Some of the air pumps have a hose that runs to the air cleaner from the gulp valve. In fact, disconnect the hose(s) right at the pump and at the gulp valve anyway, just to eliminate it as the source. Could be pressure from the air pump or a bad anti-backfire valve in the exhaust manifold's air injection rail.

"The breather seems good (also without the breather there is significant blow by out of the breather's hole."
-- that's relieving the pressure. Not good to hear that.

Try a compression check, see if they are equal. Significant blowby should be accompanied by lower compression on at least one. Could be one of the 2 top rings went away. If it was the lower oil control ring, it would smoke out the tailpipe.

Were you running an HEI with the stock vacuum advance and the stock carb? Did you have the base timing set at 5 - 10 degrees, or did you have it way high? Have you been hearing ping?

Then you might want to take it to the guy that rebuilt it - the machinist. Sounds like a ring isn't seating -- but I hope you've just got the air pump screwed up.

(626) 358-8207


98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"
 
#12 ·
Thanks again Rich,
If by air injection pump you mean a smog pump (pumps air into the exhaust manifolds-I dont have one.
are you saying that an improperly installed HEI could cause these problems, becouse when I put my HEI on a few years ago, I didnt have this board, so I probably made some mistakes. I DO have the original vacuum adv. and I cant remeber what the timing is set on ( I do however remember that there was VERY LITTLE room for adjustment with that big ole' HEI cap.
I dont here pings, but Im willing to concede that it is a ring (hope not) Just one more question and I promise Ill leave you alone, what exactly do I look for in compresion testing (procedure)?

Once again thanks again for all your time and effort

Scotty


70 in Boone, NC
 
#13 ·
Yes, air injection pump = smog pump. I was hopeing.

Compression check - cold, remove all plugs, disconnect the + wire to the HEI.
Prop the throttle all the way open (don't forget it later.)

Watch the gauge as someone cranks it. The first pulse should give you at least 60% of the final reading. Spin it over till it pulses 3 or 4 times, but do all the same. Write each one down as you go.

The actual reading will vary from engine to engine, ranging anywhere from 110 - 150 lbs. The amount isn't as important as the variation between them. They shouldn't be more than 10% between the highest to the lowest.

Post the results here please - I hate it when I never hear from someone again, don't know if it worked or he's so mad at me he won't speak to me.

If you have a low one, put about a tablespoon of engine oil in the cylinder and test it again.
If it comes way up, see the guy that rebuilt it. At 4000 miles you still may have a warranty.

If it's all the same, then we aren't through, but I'm running out of ideas.

Do the plug and run on the breather like I asked.

98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"
 
#14 ·
well, as soon as I get a compression tester, I promise Ill let you know how it went, So the improperly installed HEI wouldn't cause my any of my symptoms? I guess I need to put that adj. Vac. advance on anyway.

BTW-Im not going to have any luck with a warranty because me and my dad rebuilt the motor ourself (except machine work) so at least if somethings wrong, Ill know who to blame!

Thanks Rich

70 in Boone, NC
 
#15 ·
Ther reason I asked about the HEI, but didn't explain; my train of thought was it may have been advancing too far, blowing a hole in a piston or breaking a ring.

If you need to get a compression gauge, get one that screws in the plug hole and has a hose running to the gauge, rather than the mickey mouse ones that you have to hold in thje hole while cranking.

Since you assembled it, do you remember making sure the gaps in the ring ends were at opposite sides of the piston?
Also, was this a condition that just started happening, or did it happen ever since you built it?
The deposits you had in the valve cover - brownish crud? How 'bout the water - any signs of white stuff or oil?
Did it also collect the crud on the breather cap? Or droplets of moisture?
That train of thought is toward the head gasket.

A head gasket can leak in several directions, all exhibiting different things - any combination of 2 or more of compression, oil, water, crankcase or outside world can happen. Typically it's compression to water, or water to oil, but it can be compression to an oil drain back hole (crankcase), causing this pressure. If compression pressure was lost into the crankcase it should show on the compression test.
Doing a herad gasket is lots easier than ring gaps.

Don't start tearing it apart yet. There may be other things that can be done.



98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"
 
#16 ·
Rich
checked that gaps were opposite, this just started either at last oil change or when we changed the PCV system, in reply to your earlier post, the valve isnt stock, the one everyone kept giving me was not right for the grommet so I had to experiment, but it does have good vacuum (but how much is enough?)
I havent checked the water, but as soon as I saw that crud, I checked my oil and it looks fine, no discoloration. Now that you mention it there were drops of moisture and a little of this "crud" on the inside of the oil filler cap and the valve cover breather

The mystery continues! I dont have access to a compression gauge right now (or to the funds to buy one) so I may have to live with this for a little while

One more thing, where do you hear "pings" from, I sometimes have backfire under throttle(not to often) and it actually does sound kinda "pingy" (for lack of a better word)

what do ya think?

By the way, hows that day trading coming along, all I have is one fund and Ive lost my but since Nov.!

70 in Boone, NC
 
#18 ·
Before doing anything, get the right PCV Valve, the right grommet, hoses, and do it right. That could be the whole problem. The valve is either too small or it's the type that mounts the other way, so get the right one. They are cheap. Engine running valve still in the hose but not in the valve cover - try pulling the valve out of the hose. The engine should die instantly.

The grommet goes in the right side (passenger side) valve cover, the PVC plugs into it, a large hose specifically designed for PCV systems - it says PCV on it - goes to the big inlet at the carb base. Other types hoses will collapse under use - looks OK engine stopped, but collapses and restricts engine running.

The other part of the PCV is the air inlet. That's a cap on the left valve cover - not a solid cap. It either is the open type with a filter in it (not good for off-road dust) or it has a hose that runs to the air cleaner.
That hose MUST terminate INSIDE the filter area where it gets air that's already been cleaned by the filter, or it will have a push in filter just inside the air cleaner. I'll bet that filter's dirty and oily too - from the fumes pushed the wrong way from the pressure.
If the air inlet hose just terminates in the air cleaner but on the outside of the filter, either get a filter on the hose or get the correct air cleaner. Without the proper filter, dust gets sucked into the engine - a sure killer.

Many aftermarket filters, the chrome ones with the plastic base either don't provide for the air inlet or put it in the wrong place. They don't care if your engine sands out as long as you buy their junk product. The plastic base filters, or those with one or 2 adapters to make it fit are trash too. If you really need shiney, try Moroso or a quality product, they are pricey but worth it.

If you need to replace the whole filter arrangement, get a junkyard one from a stock vehicle. Measure how much room you've got - tons - and neck dia. A good source is older Chey's, trucks, cars etc. That 2G carb is very common. (You can get it chromed or paint it pretty.)

The fresh air sweeping through the engine keeps the innards clean, free from sludge and condensation (that brown crud.) It also takes care of the normal blowby gasses, but is able to only handle so much of it. If something's wrong, like a ring, the poor little PCV can't handle it.

I had an old Ford van once, almost 300,000 miles on it - ran great but lots of blowby. I put a second PCV system on it to handle the extra blowby, worked great - and stopped the oil leaks.

Get the right PCV valve and the right hoses before doing anything else. I'm sure you can get it all for less than $8.

Day trading? Unless you can stand to weather losses of a few thousand dollars once in a while when the market turns against you, don't. Find a nice stable NYSE stock and stick with it. Few mutual funds consistantly beat the market, the winners in those is the fund managers who run it. They trade with your money, profits go in their pocket first. Even if the fund loses, they still get their commissions for trading. My neighbor is a bond broker - does very well - doesn't invest much of hios own money though, doesn't need to when he can play with yours.

Tech stocks are a big gamble now. Some will do very well over the next few years, but some will dissapear - which? Who knows.

The way medical research is making such big inroads lately a few of those will skyrocket - but which?

Energy? A good long term bet, if the government doesn't nationaize them - look at Calif - Davis and the politicians are trying to control the the electric and gas companies - to control you. That's why we have the problem now, they were messing with it with price controls, a sure disaster. Their goal is control - if you don't vote for them, or don't like what they are doing - no power for you!

I'm rarely invested in any stock more than a day or 2. In on a small dip, out on a peak. You don't make alot on any turn, but you do it over and over and over.
That's why I'm on here so often, I'm watching and waiting for the market to move slightly so I can do the next trade.

Good thoughts BigRooster, but I would think if the chain had slipped, his major complaint would be driveability. Defective guides leaking through are a possibility, exhaust side.
Does it give out a big puff of smoke (from the tailpipe) when you start it after it's sat overnight? How 'bout decelerating or coasting downhill - lots of smoke from the tailpipe? Loose guides suck oil down into the cylinders, bad valve seals do the same thing.
Seems like the original smoke complaint was uphill under acceleration but not from the tailpipe, an oil leak that gets worse under that condition. But who knows.

98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"