Well after putting about 20,000 miles in Baja in my last Jeepster the body mounts never bent, broke, loosened or anything. I never took it with a top on it so I already know about dust. What killed that Jeepster was sand. Most of my driving in Baja is along the Sea of Cortez coastline from San Felipe to Cabo San Lucas. There is lots of salt in that sand. The only breakdowns in the Jeepster were 1: broken shock mounts (twice) 2: one broken motor mount 3: grenaded front driveshaft carrier bearing, (had to fix by carving new pieces out of wood. Kind of like hercs front bumper) Most of the driving down there where there is no trails is more like 5-10 mph, a lot of rock crawling on sharp rocks at low tide, and then backtracking because you find out after a 8 hour drive there's no way out. That Jeepster finally bowed out after a Mexican Carburator Rebuild (3000rpm and a hand over the carb) stuck a rod through the cylinder wall and then finally the almighty rust ate her up. This one I have now I have all new body mounts, all new custom National springs, and yesterday I ordered the u bolt reversal kit from Dynatrac, and the F250 shock mounts. Its almost ready, this one's staying away from that damn salt water though.
I've had two lifted straight axle Suburbans that I've taken there and they're a dream to drive at any speed. Whatch out for cows though. One of my Subs is still down there, after going too fast where the road washed out. I ended up pulling the winch, wheels and stereo and leaving it down there. The next summer that I went down there I found the Sub on top of a pile of oyster shells stripped to the bone, not a screw left. I'll post a pic of that sometime.

Tom
69 Jeepster
89 Suburban 4wd
00 Expedition 4wd

 

I must have a difference experience with Baja then, {desert racer) I like humming along the roads at 50-60 MPH catching a little air and beating hell out of the suspention, sliding corners, that sort of stuff, that is what I would imagine doing in my Jeepster if I were in baja right now, the 5-10 MPH rock crawling fun stuff is way different in the sort of abuse I was thinking of, whoops. 20,000 miles going 5-10 MPH? Damn! That is like 110 days of driving without stop! You must like baja! I am pretty shure smittybuilt made a front hoop for a while, Jim Serr said something about it at one time and gave an address of a man that might have some, you would have to search. Subs do very well in the desert, I have seen some pretty sweet setups for chase crews outfitted in subs. Procomp seems to be the lift of choice, some I have seen with all custom stuff though and king coilovers. They run 37" BFG project t/a's or the 37" Goodyear ATS tires, and they look real nice with some stout tube bumpers. I saw one with a tire rack that rit into the reciever to hold two spares, it worked nice because it ran the same tires as thier race truck, so if they ever got in a pinch thier chase truck would have spare tires. I wanna see the sub picked to the bone! The national leafs should work great on the Jeepster, I love thier springs, we have had ours on the rear of the race truk for 3 race seasons now and never had to replace them, even though people tell you to replace them every other race.

John
70 Jeepster with "Hurc package"
225 V-6 with HEI, SM465, D18, D44's, SOA on custom antiwrap springs, 36's
48 flattie 225 V-6, T14, D20, D27/D44 33's.
98 Tacoma Extended Cab V6

 

I looked and looked for my pics of my Sub that I rolled down there. Couldn't find them, my wife says she may have them at work and will look today. Your right about the pro-comp, those were the springs I used on my first sub, the one I have now I put ranchos but they're a little stiffer. My dream would to be able to run 50-70 mph in the Jeepster like I could in the Sub, But replacement parts are a little too hard to come by. I'm not saying I didn't do 60 in the Jeepster but that was when you'd find a trail. The rest of my time down there was mostly spent finding places that other people never went to. I love the place and as you probably know, it's not all desert. Just 99 percent of it. There is areas that have streams, rivers and even a natural lake, with pine trees. I've been going down there for almost 15 years, and have seen most but not all of it.

Tom
69 Jeepster
89 Suburban 4wd
00 Expedition 4wd

 

I was able to save some cash on my first Jeepster by bringing my tubing to Meineke in the evening. I gave the guy ten bucks to make the bends. The tubing that I had didn't fit perfectly into his machine so there were some small wrinkles in the steel, but for ten bucks it was worth it. I'm 6'3' and I hit my knees on it all of the time. I've seen the Smitty Built cage, and you can open the glove box.

 

I have a lot of 20' PIECES OF STEEL fnce tubing. Why should't I use it?

PROUD! member of the EASTERN CHAPTER!

 

What kind of steel is it? I doubt it's a good grade of mild steel, but I could be wrong. I know a lot of people recommend DOM tubing, but I've also heard that the minimum you use should be .120 wall 1-3/4" HREW mild steel tubing. Is fence post stuff tubing or galvanized pipe?

Joel F.
Marquette, Michigan
Project No-Bucks
http://home.off-road.com/~nobucks/
'68 Jeepster Commando
225 V6/SM420/NP205/Dana44's

'79 Scout Traveler

 

The fence tubing is useful if you want to join the Olympic games. Fencing.

I would think you should be able to find out exactly what steel is used by searching the Web for NASCAR, USAC, NHRA, or NORRA rules. They build some pretty awesome cages. Or a call to a local speed shop.



98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"

 

Any racer that has half a head uses the spendy chromemolly tubing, it is stronger than DOM tubing by a lot, also lots more expensive too. /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif Fence tubing would be great to build a fence with, not a cage. DOM tubing is what should be used, chromemolly if you want to run a smaller diameter tubing. You will notice that NASCAR uses 1.5" diameter tubing a lot, but look at the design, it is a cage on wheels with a motor attached, to run small tubing you have to run it right. Jeeps need 2" diameter .120 wall DOM tubing for a cage, VW bugs use 1.75" diameter DOM tubing, not Jeeps. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif 1.75" diameter tubing would be fine for your Jeepster but don't plan on re-using it, it will be a one time use only deal, it will most likley get a lot of damage from the roll, 2" tubing would hold up better. 2" DOM tubing is pretty cheap, most places can bend it (I don't know about muffler shops, that is new to me) and it is easy to work with, not like 3x3" square tubing..... /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif GRQ, are you talking about the oil pipe that they make fence rails out of? The stuff with the threaded ends? That will not work for shure, I doubt it would bend well, and it would not be very safe at all if you had to use it.

John
70 Jeepster with "Hurc package"
225 V-6 with HEI, SM465, D18, D44's, SOA on custom antiwrap springs, 36's
48 flattie 225 V-6, T14, D20, D27/D44 33's.
98 Tacoma Extended Cab V6

 

But Hurc, you said yours was Poly Vinyl Chloride!

98% is Understanding it
"Don't Fix Unless Broke"

 

The pipe that I got is for the top rail of chain link fence. It is galvanized and is at least 1/4" thick. I have a manuel hydraulic bender and was able to put a 90 degree bend in one piece as a test.
.120 DOM tubing costs about $5.00 per foot at a local race shop here. I got the fence pipe for free. My biggest complaint about it is the weight. I'm going to build a full cage so I'll have at least 30' of pipe up there.

PROUD! member of the EASTERN CHAPTER!

 

The Smittybilt cage is welded seam (HREW) tubing, not DOM. For the main hoop I wouldn't go smaller than 2" but I don't see any reason not to use 1-3/4 for the windshield bars. I know one guy who rolls regularly (often) who competes in ARCA as well and he hasn't had any problem with his welded seam tubed roll cage. He beat up on a Smittybilt for years before that gave out, and then he had a weldor friend build another cage out of seamed tube, and it's held up fine.

If you've read anything by Willie Worthy in Four Wheeler you know that he's fanatical about safety. He's raced on and off-road for years and given a lot of advice, and even he doesn't use DOM.

I don't see any reason to not use 2" x .120" wall mild steel tubing. But NOT fencing. /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

Here are the ARCA (American Rock Crawling Championships) rules regarding roll cages:

In reply to:

Roll bars/Cages
ARCA considers the cage as the safety bars surrounding the driver. They are designed to protect the occupant in the event of a rollover.
The following are approved for competition:
Six (6) point mounting cages covering the driver.
Round steel tubing (D.O.M Preferred) is compulsory for the basic roll cage and must be ARCA approved.
Aluminum and /or soft metals are not permitted.
Roll bar construction must be welded.
Roll Cage padding is required on all roll cage bars that may come in contact with the driver's head or helmet.
Connection positions of the roll cage must tie in to the frame of the vehicle. Body mounts are considered a tie in point.
The front-most position must be no farther toward the rear of the vehicle than fifteen (15) inches behind the throttle and brake pedals.
The Cage must have a total of two spreader bars between the front main bar and rear main bar no less 12" to the right and left of the center line of the driver seat.
Main bars must be constructed from a continuous length of tubing.
Gussets, no less than 3" long and 2" wide must be welded at the upper connecting point and bending point of the main bars and spreader bars.
Magnetic, expanded sheet metal must cover area immediately over the driver seat and be welded to the top of the front main bar, rear main bar, and left and right spreader bars.
ARCA recommends a spreader bar to be mounted under the dash area to the right and left side of the front main bar.

Of course, my front cage plan wouldn't be ARCA approved, since the main bars to the front would not be one continuous piece.

Joel F.
Marquette, Michigan
Project No-Bucks
http://home.off-road.com/~nobucks/
'68 Jeepster Commando
225 V6/SM420/NP205/Dana44's

'79 Scout Traveler

 

Be carefull when you weld anything galvanized it puts off some nasty fumes.

1970 Jeepster half cab
225 V6/2.5" suspension lift/custom roll cage
And no where near being done

 

What does D.O.M. stand for?

Adam G. Fisher
Boston, MA.

'72 Jeep Commando

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/commando/

"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

 

Drawn Over Mandrel tubing. It's for all intents and purposes seamless so it's stronger than welded seam tubing. You can read more about the process here: http://www.steel-tube-institute.com/dom.htm

Before you ask, HREW is Hot Roll Electric Weld and that falls under ERW (Electric Resistance Welded tubing). Just go to your steel guy and tell him you want some 2" x .120"walled mild steel round tubing and he'll get you what you need.

Joel F.
Marquette, Michigan
Project No-Bucks
http://home.off-road.com/~nobucks/
'68 Jeepster Commando
225 V6/SM420/NP205/Dana44's

'79 Scout Traveler

 

The material you build the cage out of is dependant on what you what the cage to be used for:

Fence pipe: Protects you when you tip over, nothing more

HREW: Good stuff, good for rollovers on the trail that are not real severe (my opinon) like 2 rolls.

DOM: When the ****e hites the fan and you are rolling off the +10 puckerfactor cliff or hill in a violent rollover where you see the body come off the Jeep and such, you want DOM. This is also true for rollovers or bad accidents on the street.

Chromemolly: Never have to worry about your cage caving in if it is built right.

That is my .02 FOr a Jeep application. Most race buggies use 1.75" diameter DOM tubing, and I have seen them crunch in sometimes, that is a lightwieght rig too! 2-3 People can carry one. I saw a trophy truck with a smashed in cage, it was chromemolly and smushed in real good, 10 rolls or something going over 100 MPH, but the driver was alright, a few more rolls and he would have been pressed in there. I think either HREW or DOM is the tube of choice, 2" diameter. If you are going to press your luck, get DOM. I thought DOM up here was $2.50 a foot, I would have to check again though. Your life your choice, do whatever feel safe.

John
70 Jeepster with "Hurc package"
225 V-6 with HEI, SM465, D18, D44's, SOA on custom antiwrap springs, 36's
48 flattie 225 V-6, T14, D20, D27/D44 33's.
98 Tacoma Extended Cab V6

 

Yeah, the price difference isn't prohibitive between DOM and HREW. As far as which one you use, use what you have confidence in. I remember Willie Worthy writing about the HREW cage he built for his daughters' Jeepster, which they rolled on an icy highway at highway speeds. The cage came out of it a lttle bent but intact. Couldn't say the same for the Jeepster.

The other guy I referenced above is Lance Clifford, from the POR. If his cage survives everything he puts it through, that's a good enough endorsement for me. I have 2" on the Smittybilt bar, and I'm going to go with 1-3/4" x .120" for the front cage (maybe 2" /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif), but I think I'll pay the couple extra bucks to have my metal supply place throw the pieces on their bender.

Joel F.
Marquette, Michigan
Project No-Bucks
http://home.off-road.com/~nobucks/
'68 Jeepster Commando
225 V6/SM420/NP205/Dana44's

'79 Scout Traveler