Off Roading Forums banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got back from the pick and pull with a cap, base, wires, rotor. I also got the coil and bracket all this for only $11.24. I could not find and f150 so I got my parts out of an 83 econoline (cap, rotor, plug wires), 94 econoline 150 (coil and bracket). I got the cap base out of a 79 fairmont. I found that if you look around at the various Ford product you find you can get them off of trucks, vans, and cars it makes it easier to find the parts.

My question is where do you use the springs for the distributor? I am talking about the Mr Gasket kit that you say to get for the upgrade. When I look at a diagram for the distributor I don't quite understand where the springs are used at

Thanks for your help als
.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,409 Posts
You have to pull and disassemble the dist. to get to the springs./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif
That is the worst part of this upgrade. If you can do it you know it's not that bad if not...... leave them out at first and see what you think w/o them.
Ask a buddy to help if you haven't done this before , it's worth it!/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

"No officer I haven't been drinking , Thats just how my Jeep drives"
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks DD, what will happen if I don't do the springs. Can I pull the distributor in any position as long as I mark where its at or do I have to do the piston #1 TDC thing before pulling taking it out.

Thanks again. als.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,409 Posts
Nothing bad will happen if you don't do the springs...it still works great but not to it's full potential(?spelling) Yes you can mark the base (check rotor position!) and reinstall it in the same place. Keep in mind when you get it all done that you will have to tinker (retime) it to your likeing and peak performance. Keep in mind like TR said detonation KILLS so watch for that.
Good luck.

"No officer I haven't been drinking , Thats just how my Jeep drives"
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
DD by detonation do you mean knocking or pinging of the engine under load. I know that will kill an engine. How long does it take to do the springs on distributor? Do you have to remove the trigger wheel and the gear to remove the shaft? I ordered the MSD 6A and MSD blaster TFI from summit so I really like to do this right.

Thanks for the help. als.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,409 Posts
Took me about 15 min. I am used to doing this though./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
Remove the dist. then remove the pin holding the gear on the bottom of the shaft. Don't beat the fire out of it to get it out. It's best to "press" it out.
Be creative ... use a punch , a small deep socket , and a vice. Once this is off you can pull the whole shaft out the top , and you can get to the springs from there./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
PS....Yes I was saying "watch the (pinging)".

"No officer I haven't been drinking , Thats just how my Jeep drives"
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
als. I installed the Mustang springs on four different engines and had pinging problems every time. All the engines have over 100k on them so that could have something to do with it. I also had pinging problems with HEI on these same engines. The best ignition combination for me is doing the RUSH upgrade with the MSD 6a , stock springs, good wires, autolites set at 55,and timing between 8 - 10 , and TFI coil. Runs great and no ping. If you want to try the springs all you have have to do is pull the drive gear, remove the shaft, and you can get to them with needle nose. Make sure you put the gear back in the same position that you took it off.
hope this helps
CTjeepnut

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thnaks Jeepnut. That is exactly the configuration that I want to run on my jeep. The motor is just 200 miles shy of 100,000 but I just had the head rebuilt about 1000 ago. Do you think or suggest to do the springs on a newer engine or a reman and not on anything over 100,000?

Does the MSD 6A replace the ignition module or is it part of the circuit?

Thanks for the help. als.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
als, I would use the springs if I could, cause they will give your engine more snap from idle up to about 2500rpms. They allow the centrifugal advance to open earlier,however if they make your engine ping, thats a bad thing. Even without the new springs the Rush Ignition is the best way to get fire to the holes.
The MSD replaces the stock ignition module.
I use to use HEI's in everything but now I carry them as backups. They make a great backup cause they are self-contained, they are totally independent of the Rush Ignition,and they use the same plug wires, so with just a 1/2 in. wrench in about 10 min. you can switch distributors, hot wire it to 12 v. MSD feed or directly to your battery, and your up and running.
Between me and my friends we have 12 258's,and everybodys using the Rush Ignition, until Aaron comes up with something better LOL .
CTjeepnut


 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sounds encouraging Jeepnut. I run the HEI also but have decide to switch to the Rush ignition upgrade instead especially if its better than the HEI . I guess I can use it for backup and I ready have a harness I made that plugs directly in to the jeep harness so power is no problem. A couple of more questions for you though. How and where did you mount the coil. I got the bracket out of an econoline van and it was mounted with the fuel pump but the 258 doesn't seem to have the clearance I need. Secondly where did you mount your MSD? I'd like to keep the duraspark module for backup in an emergency.

Thanks for your help. als.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jeepnut,
I've been reading these posts and they're really helpful. I have the TeamRush Ignition with MSD-6A & MSD TFI Coil. I've just gotten a handle on a pinging problem I've had since I installed the Howell TBI. It was advancing too much with the vacuum advance. I have the set screw, which is inside the port where the vacuum advance connects (1/8" alan key). I was told stock is 2.25 turns out. I beleive it is now turned out 4 turns. The pinging has finally subsided, I hope. Now, what spring kit is used to complete the TR upgrade? Do you have any opinions on where the set screw should be? The engine is now set to 6 dbtdc with 8mm wires, autolites @ .050, and the MSD. I connected the MSD to the distributor via the magnetic pickup. This took the old Duraspark totally out of the loop, I believe. MSD has diagrams which can be downloaded at their site: www.msdignition.com go to instructions. It's the lower diagram on page 18.

Jeepgator
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I used the HEI many times, even addapted one to my AMC 4 banger. I had a pinging problem in every application due to what I think is too much built in advance. I never blew out a rotor but I believe that could happen. I like the Rush Ignition better because of the stock advance curve and its got to be a more powerful spark cau
se now I gap the plugs at 55.
For the coil mount I used 2 pieces of 1 1/4 x 1 1/4 x 8 in. angle, drilled 2 holes , bolted them, straight up, to the original coil holes, and mounted the TFI coil to these uprights. I had to cut away a small section of 1 side of the angle at the top to clear the coil, you'll see what I mean.
I mounted the MSD box to the passenger fenderwell, you'll need to use spacers to make it sit flat,and i mounted the tach adapter to the firewall next to the battery.
Not all the engines get the MSD box, for us the cheapest-best combo is the Ford cap, rotor and adapter, a TFI coil from the boneyard, a good set of wires, plugs at 45 and a 12 v. feed.
hope this helps
CTjeepnut

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Jeepnut will the tach adapter work with the stock tach? Running the HEI I never did anything when I switched from the stock ignition and the tach just worked, not sure why but it did. I just received my parts from summit today and I didn't order the tach adapter. Do you have the part number for it? I decided to go with the deluxe package and splurged(sp?) for the MSD, MSD TFI.

One more question where did you get the 12V feed for the coil. Could I use the wire that supplies the original stock coil if I make adapter harness for the correct type of connectors? Going over the Jeep wiring diagram it looks as if I could use the stock wire harness to supply voltage to the coil but I may be wrong.

Thanks again. als.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
jeepgator,
The stock vacuum advance curve calls for full advance at about 18 in. hg. All of the original vacuum canisters I have tested are not adjustable, and they all are pretty close to these specs. I did purchase an aftermarket canister which was adjustable. I tested this unit with a vacuum pump and found that 11 turns out would get close to the stock specs.
An adjustable vacuum canister does not control the amount of advance, it can never give you more advance than was built into the distributor, it only controls the rate of advance. So if full vacuum advance happens at too low of rpm's it will give you pinging. That is why I adjust the vac curve to stock specs to elliminate that problem.

#925D are the part numbers for the springs, but I have tried them several times only to experience pinging problems, as they allow the centrifugal advance to open up at too low of an rpm for me.
All engines are different, if you can use these springs without pinging thats better for you. I'm happy with the stock springs cause I don't have the time to experiment with different combinations of springs. Stock vacuum and centrifugal advance curves work well for me and I don't have any pinging problems with them.
To anyone doing these kind of mods I would suggest getting a hand vacuum pump. A very useful tool for many different applications, such as, 1 person brake bleeding, testing front axle disconnect problems, setting up vacuum advances, testing engines for valve problems, and testing all kinds of vacuum related devices.
hope this helps
CTjeepnut

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
CTjeepnut,

Thanks. Are we talking about the same thing, the canister? I have been adjusting the set screw in the port on the distributor where the vacuum line connects. How do you use a vacuum pump to adjust the vacuum advance? I've been wanting to buy one to bleed brake lines, but this is more important for me to fix right now. If we are talking about the same set screw, mine is turned out 4 turns right now, and there's still intermitant (sp?) pinging. The canister down in the corner on the driver's side is not connected and out of the loop. I just need a little more explaination on this.

Thanks,

Jeepgator

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Howell recommend not using the vaccuum advance with their EFI? I thought I remembered seeing something about that on the Howell user's board.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've spoken to Howell about this after some confusion on the boards. The vacuum advance is supposed to be connected. That's what their tech guy said.

Jeepgator

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
als,
Canister might be the wrong term,but we're talking about the same thing. I have never seen a factory vacuum advance control that is adjustable, but never say never.
Anyway, I have an adjustable vacuum control that is aftermarket,and to get the stock advance curve I had to back out on the set screw 11 turns.
To check with a vacuum pump, hook up the pump to the vac port, start pumping slowly, watch the advance arm move, when it stops moving, which is full vacuum advance,check the gauge on the vac pump, it should read about 18 in hg.
when I first tested this vac advance control,with the adjustment clockwise all the way, it was going to full advance at only 5 in hg., which means it was advacing way too fast.
For now try it at 10 turns out to see if that will solve your pinging problem, then buy a vac pump so you won't have to guess, you won't be sorry for buying this tool , it has many uses.
hope this helps
CTjeepnut

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks CTjeepnut, this is the info I've been looking for. I'll try it at ten turns. I bought the distributor at Discount Auto Parts. I asked for the stock one. It says Motorcraft on it, but I don't have the part number on me. When I first adjusted the set screw, it was turned out only one turn. Also, should I re-gap my plugs to .055", they're at .050" now?

Thanks again,

Jeepgator
1983 CJ7/258/T-999/TBI/TR Ignition/MSD

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK, that explains it gator, you have a rebuilt dist. and most likely it has a new aftermarket, adjustable, vacuum control on it. Do yourself a favor and get a vac pump, you'll find many uses for it. The original vac advance curve is full advance at between 16 to 18 in hg. Set your vac advance to open up as fast as it can without pinging.
I gap my plugs at .055 cause the MSD instructions say for up to 10.5:1 comp. ratio, plug gap .050 -.060.
IMHO, the HEI is better than the orginal DS, a cheap upgrade, most of us got the HEIs for next to nothing, change the gear 25$, never even got new wires or caps most of the time, and it was fun doing something different. But there were pinging problems most of the time. No big loss in tossing the HEI in favor of the Rush ignition. Most of the boneyards that I use will just about give away all the parts you need for the Rush ignition. I'm not saying that used wires, caps and rotors are first class, but they work. And I have no problem with used coils or cap bases. Just by changing these parts will give you a stonger spark than the HEI, and eliminate pinging problems and burnt rotors. The MSD upgrade is icing on the cake, but not mandatory. Most of us are very satisfied with just the cap and rotor and TFI coil.
CTjeepnut
PS, I think everybody who uses this ignition owes Aaron from Team Rush at least a six pack LOL

Funny thing is, the more I practice, the luckier I get
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top