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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This may be a foolish question, but I've got to know...what is the difference between a PTO winch
and a regular electric winch or hydraulic winch? And why do they sell for so much less? Are they not as effective?
Thanks,
Fred

 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
PTO= Power Take Off. This winch uses a drive shaft driven from the T-case to power the winch. It runs better than an electric or hydraulic winch, but is a lot more involved to install. You can only use one if your Jeep is equiped to handle one, and you have to run a drive shaft to it.

_____________________
John
95.5 YJ with "stuff"
http://SonsofThunder4x4.com
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
a pto winch itself is fairly simple, usually a big worm gear driving the cable drum with some sort of release mechanism to allow free spooling, they are available from very small all the way into the 50000lbs plus range, the drives can get very tranny / t-case specific, some trannys are not able to accept a pto but most granny low four speeds will have a pto port on them. winch ratings are kind of a gray area here, an electric 8000lb winch will rarly (in my experience) pull anywhere near 8000lbs, I base this on experience, a friend was stuck on a log and two 8000lb warn electrics wouldn't do the job but my 8000lb konig pto had no problems pulling him out, the limits are cable strength or ultimatly the strength of the worm gears. best bet if you have one is to travel with a buddy who has an electric, use the pto whenever possible but the electric should you have no engine.

 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif There was a time when PTO units were fairly standard....either single direction or two-way, and all had straight teeth to hook to the straight tooth gear in the tranny just for that purpose, and hung onto the six-bolt window on the side of the case(sometimes two sides). Later on, however, they began using helical gears and when that happened, the units had some variation. The Model 18 transfer case had the PTO directly behind the case...in line with the crankshaft. The later stuff was entirely different. Our '79 CJ7 Quadra-Trac has provision for a PTO....you have to put the low range unit in neutral, and the power goes out the back door of THAT unit to the rear of the Jeep. They always show a Jeep PTO running a big, totally unshielded buzz saw. Frankly, buzz saws scare the crap out of me. Our next-door neighbor sawed his arm off in one./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

CJDave
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
How do I know if my Jeep is equipped to accept a PTO winch. I have a 3-speed with a 304, any help?

 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have a Ramsey 8000lb PTO on my CJ5, with the SM420 in first, the PTO will pull the frame from out under my Jeep. I have winched up and over a 7' embankment without even being able to tell the engine was running. Your electric winch won't work for long in water anyway. Another benefit is that you can put 215'-225' of 5/16 wire rope on the PTO, as compared to 150'-175' on most electrics. Ramsey even made a long drum (16") which will take even more. I'd take the PTO anyday of the week and leave the electric on your car trailer.

Sam

 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Crawl under your Jeepie and look at the tranny. On some of the three speeders, they did have the little PTO door on the side. Look for a flat plate....about 4" X 6" held on with six bolts./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a dana 18 t/c and noticed that the model 20 has the PTO comming from the bottom plate instead of the back. Will a 20 PTO work on the 18 the same way or do I have to use the rear PTO set-up?

 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
you could use the bottom plate style on your d18. that way you can still run an OD unit on the back.

dan

I do not intend to offend,I offend with my intent
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OOOHHHH I want a dana20 pto drive for my willys now! I've been trying to think of a way to run a compressor and that would be the ticket!

 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sam's (Dauntless)post says a PTO can take more cable. I recall something called an Oregon Winch. Basically a PTO mounted in the bed behind the front seats (frame mounted, please)with a BIG spool and a 1/4 mile of cable! I wonder how much drag there is just getting that last 100 yards off the spool? Uphill. Around a few trees and rocks?

1968 CJ-5 225 V6/T14/18/27frt/44rr
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yeah its a lot of work but if you are 1/4 mile into a mud bog and thats the nearest tree its worth the effort :)

 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You cannot run a standard 20 PTO unit on an 18. Problem is the gears will not mesh correctly because the tooth
count is not correct. Kind of like trying to run a 4.27 pinion gear on a 5.38 ring gear. Something will crash.
You have to get the early Bronco 20 PTO gears and put them in the Jeep 20 PTO. These gears are very rare.
If you want to run a PTO and an overdrive on an 18 transfercase it is possible. There is an adapter that
goes on the back of the o/d that the 18 pto bolts to. Advance Adapters makes these to go along with the
Saturn overdrive. I would recommend trying to find a used unit as they are expensive new. If interested
I know someone who sells these adapter kits used. You can e-mail me and I will get his #. Most 4 speed
truck type tranny's have a provision for a PTO. Generally they are application specific for the same reason
mentioned on the 20 and 18 PTO units. Too many variations with tooth count, pitch, direction, etc. If you
put one on a truck tranny that runs off the cluster gear try and get one that is reversible otherwise you will
have power in only. (the cluster always turns the same direction, is not reversible). Personally, I feel an
electric is great for the occasional user, but for constant use or long heavy pulls the pto is the way to go.
Regarding the dead engine problem, many people modify them so they can put a speed wrench with a socket
on them to still operate the winch with engine not running. It's slow but still works and at least you won't
have a dead battery when you're done.
I have a Braden and two Koenigs and have been very happy with all of them. Of course I do more winching
than the average person as I'm involved in Search and Rescue. My CJ-6 has a PTO winch on front and a
Warn M8000 tucked up under the back. Just my opinion. Nickmil.

 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif We put a zillion hours of winching on a Braden Model M5 with a reversible PTO hanging on the side of a five-speed Clark. Never did have a PTO on a transfer case, however, just on the main boxes. The reversible PTO had it's own countershaft to get reverse.....was a pretty heavy and physically cumbersome unit./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif It may not squeeze into all spots. One thing I really hate are cable controlled PTOs. YUK!/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif Had a Chelsea like that....single direction...on a PTO compressor...I STILL have the cable control I took off when I converted it to a lever./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
CJDave,
Just curious why you don't like the Cable operated PTO's . I have all lever operated ones now. Does the
cable bind up or come out of adjustment easily? Nickmil.

 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Unless the cable is a Morse, or some other really hi-grade brand, they get rusty in places you cannot lube well, and then the drivers pull too hard, and the dash begins to crack, and if the PTO doesn't move well, they push too hard and the cable pops out to the side right at the PTO. It's just not as good an arrangement as a lever, but the lure is that it is SO EASY to just slap in when the equipment is installed./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
 
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