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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anybody have any experience with this stuff? is it good, bad etc..
thanks rocky

 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
No experience, but I do have an opinion...BIG waste of money. Can't beat frequent oil changes with a good quality oil. My last several vehicles I have owned since new went way over 100k and didn't use any oil, ran real good. BTW, I do believe, DuPont, the inventor of Teflon, said somewhere along the way that Teflon has no business inside of engines.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 

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The Society Of Automotive Engineers did a five year study on oils, oil filters, and oil additives.

The conclusion of the largest collection of automotive engineers in the world, with the absolute best test equipment in the world was...

NONE, not a single one of the supposed anti wear oil additives showed any measurable decrease in wear, or showed any measurable increase in engine power output or economy.

Several did plug the oil filter with contaminants. (Teflon solids, resins and plastics)
Several did degrade into harmful components. (acids, alkaloids, solvents, astringents, ect)
One supposed 'Engine Restorer' even contains abrasive compounds and fine iron filings!

Teflon can be added to an engine by coating parts BEFORE ASSEMBLY.

Teflon CAN NOT be added to an engine in any beneficial way by pouring ground Teflon solids into the oil. All that does is plug the oil filter.

It is a very long and involved process to get Teflon to stick to steel or aluminum.

You CAN NOT Teflon coat any parts in the engine, after engine assembly, no matter what the advertisements say.
When the 'Magic Goop' breaks down, it can create real problems.

The brand names I remember from the articles are Dura Lube, Slick 50, Amsoil Additive, and Prolong, along with about 300 others from around the world.

I know I'm going to get a ton of hate mail over this one. Save your time people, I've heard it all before...

Hope this helps, Aaron.

So many cats, So few recipes....
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you want to spend more money on oil cahanges, use synthetic oil. Oil manufacturers spend millions of dollars on R&D coming up with the ideal oil package. If the stuff in these products (PTFE in Slick 50, who knows what in Prolong) was that good, why wouldn't it already be in your oil? PTFE is BAD. Expands in heat, therefore blocking oil passages. Not sure about Prolong, but most additives contain either PTFE, straight 50 weight motor oil, or a Zinc compound. Zinc is commonly used as a high pressure additive, it IS in motor oil, but not in the concentration seen in many of the additives. It can cause problems with sensors and the catalytic converter, from what U understand.

Sorry, ended up a little longer than I had intended, but the bottom line is just stick with oil, and change it every 3000.

Hope this helps!

Marc
Contagious Off-Road
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What about Marvel Mystery oil? i hear good stuff about it from real users.My dad used to divide a quart between gas and crankcase every other oil change in a 67 Chey pick m up from time it was new till 1986 when he passed away and the motor still ran fine,meaning only i saw no problems caused by the MMO

 

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MMO is a good question, I also use it, my dad swears by it. Puts it religeously in his '71 Chevy Truck and his '94 4 Runner. Here's another question, what about the friction modifier I have to add to the LSD's on the Trooper and TJ?

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205/7" Lift/33" Swampers/D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
 

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Most of these things, like I think most of the performance parts that carry the CARB cert on them, are better at seperating you from you money then they are at improving performance/service life (etc.). I really would like to know how they get away with the "no oil" driving demo (the Prolong infomercial). We did a very unscientific test of Prolong at work in an attempt to debunk the Prolong myth. We blunted a S.S. bolt on the grinder/wire wheel and stuck it in the drill press. Then using a piece of stainless flat stock we put a droplet of various lubicants (we have a bunch of them) and "pressed" them til they smoked. No we didn't use a torque wrench or anything special......we just watched them smoke. We did this with Joy synthetic compressor oil, hydraulic oil, ATF, 20w, 15-40, 150 machine oil, 75-140 gear oil, you name it. They all eventually smoked (as anyone would expect). The one that smoked the first was straight Prolong. Now here's where it got interesting......when you added Prolong to any of the aforementioned oils ........ it took substantially longer for them to smoke....up to 2 or 3 times as long. Again this was an extremely flawed test and I still group it with the "It's natures way of saying that you make too much money" line of products - but it has something to its claims.
LoneEagle- Marvel Mystery Oil is a decent product. Many oil burner techs carry some to use when they service smaller oil burner pumps. Marvel also provides the "snake oil" that is added to our #5 low sulpher fuel oil in our big boilers at work. This is what the boiler chem man recommended for sludge reduction and cleaner burning.
Marvel sells (or did sell) what was called an "inverse oiler" that attached in line with the PCV hose. It would drip MMO into the intake stream and keep the combustion chambers clean. The faster you drive ....the more it drips. They sold various sizes of these units for everything from passenger cars to larger industrial size gasoline motors. Now most older mechanics know that this is a proven technique using ATF (or water for that matter-water injection) and whether MMO provides any benefit beyond what these cheaper fluids can provide .....well who knows. This type of maintenance item probably had its place in the older and dirtier engines with their high lead content fuels ......but may be somewhat unnecessary in the new and much cleaner burning engines.

I still want to know how they got away with driving all that fine hardware without oil.


GeeAea

Figures don't lie ....... but liars sure do figure.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ever notice in those tests where they drop the oil pan and run it for another 30 minutes?...also notice that the car is not pulling a load? Do you remember the year that one of the Indy cars lost its oil so they put in water and they were able to run about 50+ laps before the engine froze?

As TeamRush, GeeAea and the others said, don't waste your money. The 2 worst enemy's to oil are dirt and high temperature. Well, the filter keeps the dirt out and the better quality the oil, the higher temperatures it can take before it starts to break down. That is one of the advantages of the synthetic oils...higher breakdown temps...and when the oil starts to break down its shear thength goes downs.

So...if you want to help the engine, then add an oil cooler. On rock crawlers, it helps keep the engine oil cooler at the low RPM's when the engine is under a lot of stress crawling over the rocks.

John......southern CA
84CJ7, 3"lift, 32"BFG, 4.10's, ARB Locker, Solid Axle's, Durabak
 

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Read the package of the 'Marvel Mistery Oil' that everyone talks about.

It is petroleum distillates. Just like W-D 40, and every other cleaning solvent and 'penetrating oil'.

The key word here is SOLVENT. Anyone want a solvent stripping the oil film off of your bearings? How about a solvent eating away or softening your engine seals?

PTFE is the laboratory acronym for Teflon. (Teflon is a trade name, like Tylenol)
PTFE/ Teflon solids, no matter how fine they are ground, do your engine no good, and plug oil filters in a big way.

The bottom line is, if you change your oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles in a carbureted engine, and 5,000 to 6,000 miles in a fuel injected engine,
USE GOOD QUALITY OIL, AND OIL FILTER, and don't abuse your engine, and make sure the oil pressure stays up, there is no reason a modern engine shouldn't last 150,000 to 250,000 miles or more.
It all depends on the quality of the components, the machine work, and how well it's maintained. Maintenance us up to you...

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BTW, the five year study concluded that Valvoline was the ONLY manufacturer that lived up to SAE requirements in all grades and all specifications. Every single product Valvoline made either met, or exceeded SAE specifications.

Fram 'Double Wear Guard' and 'Wear Guard' oil filters preformed the best, and the third place went to Lee oil filters.

Just thought you might like to know. You have to be a member to get the SAE reports, so the general public doesn't see many of these things.
Later, Aaron.

So many cats, So few recipes....
 

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I think I would like to have that guy working for me!
He redly admits he has no 'Hot' testing equipment, but he is really thorough on his static tests.
He's pretty good at classifying the different attributes of the filters with his static tests and disassembly, but he did run the filters through a five year active test cycle in engines on lab dynos, or in real world testing.

It would take one man several life times to compile 5 year duration testing information on ALL oil filter makers and ALL oils... Not to mention several vehicles and test engines for each type of everything... What do you suppose the cost is?....

BTW, the delco oil filter he recommends as his #1, is 4th on the SAE list... And sense the SAE study is about 5 years old now, (Ten years from start) the products may have changed dramatically in that time.
It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer back slid on a product when a newer more visible product made it's way up to the top shelf...
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I do know that down through the years, I have been able to stop problems like galled rocker arms and rocker arm balls, scored camshafts, overheated bearings, and worn thrust faces by using Valvoline or some of the premium synthetic oils, so I believe the studies.

All of you are allowed to believe what ever you want.
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GeeAea, you have tried to ambush me and pile on me before, and I don't know what your motives are now, so this will be my last posting on this subject.

Everyone is allowed his own opinion, and to believe what ever research they want to.
The most reputable source in the world is what I quoted.
That is what I'm going to stick with.

If you want to argue with the body of engineers that set the standards for automotive products world wide, be my guest, just leave me out of your project...

I believe the SAE, I believe IN the SAE, and I spent 12 years to become part of that fraternity....... and I believe I'll have another beer... That's what I believe...
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Later, Aaron.

So many cats, So few recipes....
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gifNow Aaron SERIOUSLY no "ambush" or dumping was intended ......not in the least/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif. Since you seem to have a decent grip on everything that you speak of I wanted your opinion on this guys work......since his results were somewhat in conflict with your data. THAT'S ALL. Now in the past ......and I'll think that you even have to agree with this one ...... your tone and dogmaic approach (this may in fact be totally justified given your experience, knowlege, and ability) has caused a certain "reflex" action by me as well as others in the past ..... this just may be your style - we can not all be a "people person".
There are many people who are opinionated and assume a posture of being an ultimate authority on a given topic. They do not take kindly to alternative points of view and react in a hostile manner when their beliefs are challenged. I do not group you with this crowd........I rather compare you to the guy who told his buddy that he could make a horse laugh out loud by whispering in his ear ....and then make him cry as well. The man did this and his buddy asked what he said to the horse to make him laugh. "Oh.....I just told him that I had a bigger "third member" than he did" ....what made him cry, the buddy asked? "I showed him"./wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

In short.....you appear to be a great authority on a number of great things.......but do you have to rub it in? /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

GeeAea

Figures don't lie ....... but liars sure do figure.
 

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Aaron , any experence with X1R?
I'm not pumping the stuff and I will tell you I changed oil 1hr runtime later but.................
I spent 2 evenings pissing with a 40K 93escort gt (1.8 dohc)that had a suck lifter from setting 2 1/2 years. (a clean car we were going to sell)
Repeatedly changing oil , 1-2 hr 2000/2500 rpm , bla,bla,bla. Car ran great except for that damn little tick. Third night (cars been running 1/2hr) boss comes in with 6oz of X1R pours it in an in five min. NO NOISE. I could'nt believe it but thats my story. A side note is he swears by it but does'nt run it in his cars , only as a "noise remover".

Wider is better but taller is cooler!
 

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I've never seen or heard of X1R before your posting.
I do know that such stuff exists. I just can't comment on it's effectiveness.
I have no reliable data to go by, and I have done no testing on that class of stuff myself.

I mostly do High Performance rebuilds, so I don't try to 'unstick' lifters or what not.
When I was young, I worked in a junk yard, and we did a lot of 'things' to older cars to quiet them down before selling them. 50 Wt. in the crank case, manual transmissions and differentials filled with assembly lube, Ect.
I swore when I got my own business I would never do anything like that, and I never have.
I just warranted a cam shaft that the rocket scientist added shims under the intake springs after he took the engine out of here. The intake springs coil bound, and took the nose off of the cam lobe.
Clearly his fault, but in the name of good customer relations, I'm going to foot the almost $100 cost of replacing the camshaft & lifters, and a $40 Fel-Pro gasket set, especially sense UPS broke the old one on the way to Lunati to be checked for a warranty problem... Lunati is cutting me a break on the cam shaft and lifter replacement, and I'm going to make it clear to him, if WE assemble the engine, and the warranty is void if he fiddles with it again...
But I digress...

I have no first had information on 'Noise Remover'. I don't have any reputable data on it either. I know some people swear by it, and some cuss it.
I don't know how the stuff you talk about worked. I do believe it worked, because you have no reason to lie here. I just don't know what the problem was in the first place, or how the X1R stuff corrected the problem or the symptoms.

I do know that a pint of 90 to130 wt. oil in a crankcase will quiet things down and raise oil pressure considerably. I never would have thought such a small amount would have such a dramatic effect until I saw it in action several times in the junk yard.
(anybody remember the old STP treatment?)

I just try to keep the oil and oil filter clean, and not abuse the engines too much. That seems to be the best way to keep things working correctly...

This was a pretty long winded post to say, "I don't know!"....

Later Guys, Aaron.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets...
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm going to take a wild a$$ guess and say that ATF might of done the
same thing allot cheaper????
Cast iron shorts on , hatch down

 

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I under stand you work on hipo stuff so when you have a "noise" it's usally bad but #1 this was a bone stock lowmilage car that came from the estate of a woman(old) that we knew. #2 I work at a yard BUT I do not do "hack" work. I changed oil 4 times in 6 to7 runhrs trying to get this noise out. We honestly do not "doctor cars or motors at all. This is a reputable buisness. We crush things for the state patrol all the time.Isuzu sent us a 99 Rodeo with 2k to crush when all it needed was a fender(thats right).I had to call calf. to ask when a rep. whas coming to make sure it was destroyed and take pics. He said "just don't sell any parts off it and we're not sending anybody over because the OSP said you could be trusted". That still blows me away in this day and age. Anyway we crushed it!
We don't sell bomber cars , cheap cars and could'nt care less about a derby.
All I'm saying is the noise went away as soon as I put it in and I wasn't about to use atf. (I have in my own before though).
I also stand by where you are coming from..........
There are NO miracle cures
A bandaid doesn't fix anything
Do it right or don't waste your time.

Wider is better but taller is cooler!
 

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Man, I can't win here!
I wasn't saying you were a hack!
I just said that adding 'Magic Goop' is an old junk yard or used car trick. I wasn't trying to imply that you were a lug nut.
Your posts are always informative, usually to the point and on topic.
You give good details, and you seem to take most of what is going on around you in, and process it enough to articulate it later.
(That's the mark of a good R&D man. It's also the mark of anyone going to be successful in life.)

You don't borrow trouble, you don't make trouble and you try to help.
You state what you saw, and you separate your opinion from any facts, (as you see them) being delivered in any situation.

Sorry if you took that wrong. Aaron.

PS, where I used to work, they would have stripped that sucker in a second, and blamed it on vandals, and turned the parts costs into the insurance company as damages. I didn't like working there, and the next place I worked was as honest as the last place was dishonest. It was a fine work enviorment, and we had repeat customers, not like the last place.

I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets...
 

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I think we're both losing here/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif
Like the private I sent.....we're on the same side!
I just wanted to state the kind of work being done and how I do it./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
You are one of the most techno guys on this board and I REALLY respect your opinion. /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gifI think we need to have a beer so you can talk things that go "right over my head"/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gifBesides it's hard for a "*****" to piss off another "*****" /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

Wider is better but taller is cooler!
 
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