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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the last week or so I have discovered censorship on a level that I didn't know existed. The Parts Mike forum "http://www.partsmike.com" censors any and every URL that they think will cause any level of compitition or any URL that they just don't like. I am just beside myself!
Are these rejected URL's really that much of a threat?
I have tried to stay as neutral as I can on this issue but I too have an opinion and I have to say something. This or any other forum will suffer with this kind of paranoid censorship.

Censorship is not a positive thing for any open form of expression and the excuse of "we don't want any commercial or vulgar posting here" is ridiculous. If someone wants to post a commercial or vulgar post, they can do so easily. Forums that are deliberately targeting certain URL's are wrong in doing so in my opinion.

My interpretation here is that this behavior is nothing more than "he said, she said bulls**t". It is juvenile and helps no one.
Has anyone experienced censorship on this forum?
I hope I'm not the next target.
This is my opinion.
Mizu

Visit my web site at http://My Jeep Site
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I have not seen it here.???
We have been known to get abit off topic here at times.


 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think you will find that ORC is a bit less paranoid than some of the competition.

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
Get involved or lose it all, the choice is yours!
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Might just be my computer, but I clicked on your web site at the bottom of your post and nothing happened. Well, I can see why. It isn't a link. If that was a joke, I fell for it. It not you need to fix your link.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 

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No matter how unpleasant we might think it is; what that other forum is doing is NOT censorship!!! They are merely excercising their right of private property. If ORC decided to do the same thing, they have that right to do so. While I applaud this forum for showing restraint in this area, I must also stand up for the rights we in America hold dear. Censorship is a government action.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mizu -

Can you at least state the facts correctly? Parts Mike doesn't "Filter" the URLs. The site that hosts Parts Mike (that is 4x44u.com) has setup their filtering software to do this, NOT Parts Mike. Hammering on him will get you no where.

As another poster said (and said well) 4x44u.com is within their rights. It is very inconvenient, and annoying. Having said this, both PartsMike, ORC, 4x4Wire.com, and other sites provide a valuable resource to wheelers...

It isn't worth getting that worked up over. I guess the bottom line is, if it bothers you that much, you do have alternatives... or you can choose to defeat their filtering. A single space in the URL (which while not linkable, it gets the point across) is easy.

Jim O'Brien
[email protected]
http://My jeep page
 

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Censorship in not strictly a Government function.
To say censorship is solely a government function would be an incorrect statement.

Censorship can be exercised by anyone with power over any medium.
That includes Nuns in Catholic schools to news paper publishers, to parts mike...
(anyone remember the crap that was published, and the censorship that went on in the Hurst papers when Patty Hurst was robbing banks? remember the law suits Hurst brought against small new papers that reported the truth factually...?)
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It has twice been the judgment of the Supreme Court Of These United States that private web sites, and internet servers, are private property, and the owners can censor any content they want to.
The Supreme Court Opinion was that cense someone owned the site, and anyone visiting there was just that, a visitor, the owner had every right to censor objectionable material to the owner.

For what it's worth (nothing), I agree completely.
I should have full rights to omit or eliminate anything I see as objectional on my web site, (no matter how petty, small minded, or wrong those views are in some cases)

If we deleted every lie, falsehood, or obnoxious thing that cam along, we would have to sew every politicians' mouth shut, and delete everything from the internet, burn all books, and ban all art or self expression (including Jeeps).
I'm just not up for another Civil war today...
(there was nothing 'civil' about the first one...)
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Censorship is the enemy of truth.
That makes censorship the enemy of all FREE men.

Censorship is a tool used by small minded, control freak, dictator types that have outdated or delusional ideas that can't stand up to the light of facts, science or truth.

Parts mikes' censorship seems to extend to,
1. Links or postings that directly challenge anything he presents as facts, right or wrong,
2. Anything that challenges his ideas or,
3. Any links that compete with his sponsors or products he pushes.
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MIZU is correct, and I can't post on parts mike's board at all cense I said on this bbs that I was getting censored there... (little ears attached to small minds are listening...)
I present a threat to his sponsors in regards to the GM HEI, and if things go right, it's going to be more than that also...

One of his sponsors was in this forum trying to defend the GM HEI, and he was nearly eaten for dinner!
Seems funny I had to defend his sponsors' rights to have any opinion he wanted on this forum, but I'm not even allowed to post facts with no opinion on parts mike's page...
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We really should give a hand to ORC for leaving this forum open to ALL postings, even though things have been WAY off topic, and pretty heated from time to time...
Pat your self on the back, Norm Lenhart and crew! Way to go guys!

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I'm off the soap box now,
Aaron.

I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law...
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
To Rkcrawl,
Not once did I refer to parts mike personally as the censor. I referred to the "parts mike (answer) forum" which it is titled.

I am not hammering PM although PM could change things if he wanted to. PM and I have been emailing back and forth on this subject, for a while now, and he is being very honest about the whole thing.

Of course 4x44u.com is within their rights to target certain URL's, but does that mean I can't disagree?
There is no doubt that the forums are a valuable resource but what if you were on of the URL's targeted?
Would you take offence? I really have no stake in this other than the fact that I just don't like it.

My URL has not been targeted because it poses no threat to anyone but if it had been targeted I would want a straight answer as to why.

It is not worth getting worked up over? Could you imagine what society would be like if everyone had that same thought?

I stated in my first post that the censors can be defeated easily and thus proving just how ridiculous and disrespectful the targeting of URL's is. You are right I do have alternatives and one of them is to bitch about something I don't like.
Mizu
The link in my first post is screwed up for some reason. My website is http://personalweb.sierra.net/~coolmizu/jeep.html
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I never said it was correct, nor did I say you couldn't disagree. The fact is that this issue is not new, and I raised the SAME issue on PMs forum at least 2 months ago. I brought it up, and Kendra posted her little explantion. Do that mean its kosher? No.

Bitching about it here at ORC doesn't accomplish anything. No one said you have to like it, or not bitch about it. However, you bitched on PMs forum... Does it really need to be at ORC too?

While the whole issue is pretty pointless, and petty, you should be pinging Kendra Cook. She runs 4x44u.com and makes the decisions (good and bad ones, I guess). The bottom line, like ORC, 4x44u is a business... The fact that they are filtering individual users (like TeamRush) is bogus. According to PM, if someone is being filtered incorrectly they should talk to Kendra.

Yes, if I was being filtered, I'd like to know why. Is there really anything I could do about it? No.

ORC has been gracious enough to host these forums, and not take petty actions to prevent forum users help answer tech questions, regardless of where the link points.

I'd just prefer to see this forum start to sway back to jeep stuff instead of being a BBS version of the Jeep-L email list. No one on this board can change whats going on at 4x44u.com.

My point about not getting all worked up about it is this:

Doing so (at ORC) isn't going to change how 4x44u is run.

Jim O'Brien
[email protected]
My jeep page
 

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here's a nice clicky link to Mizu's webpage...

Cool site by the way... /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

And while I'm posting this, I might as well mention how I feel about censorship. I feel censorship is used only by those that are so afraid that someone might hear differing opinions that they refuse to permit that to happen. (In other words I don't like censorship, even though it is the right of whoever owns the server that the information is on gets to choose what to censor.) /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Tim
/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 35x12.5s
/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif '85 S15 4x4 2.8l, 235/75's
 

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Is this the forum you mention? http://www.PartsMike.com/ There once was a time that you could not post that URL on this website. I have been here long enough to remember those days. One point to consider is they have not stated that they are running a free and open forum. It is a moderated forum. That means posts can be censorered. Once, the net was a free wheeling, open & non commercial enviroment. Those days are over. I would have agreed with you over the censorship 3 or 4 years ago, but not anymore. These forums are a business, not a Usenet Newsgroup. If you wanted an un moderated usenet group, they were available. If you wanted a moderated forum, it might have been available. Remeber or even know the difference between the Usenet the alt usenet? There is a certain level of etiquite for the Usenet Newsgroups, but these type forums are all about business. Your biusiness, your rules. If you don't like what happens at the PM forum don't go there. If the advertising revenue drops with a reduction in readership, a good business man will change his policy. If not profits are lost, and they will be out of business.
I certainly hope our difference of opinion does not cause in problems. We are still all fellow Off-Roaders.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Rkcrawl,
"Complaining" here may inform posters of what is actually going on with these sites. Some, if not most, of the posters here also post or review the PM forum. I am merely using the PM forum as an example of this URL targeting crap. I have no doubt that this thing goes on elsewhere as well.

Don't you think that people like myself and others should know what is going on? It affects the forums on which you post, does that not interest you?

This thread is for the posters who are interested in this subject. If you don't like this thread, you have the freedom not to read it, but don't say that the subject is meaningless just because you are not interested. Click on another subject that interests you or is more about 4x4's.

Everyone has the freedom of choice on these forums, but with censorship in place you are not getting all the facts and you are not getting the whole picture.
Mizu


 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I mean no ill toward the PM forum or any other forum for that matter and what I say will probably have no effect on their site. I have received much help from the PM forum and to say that I may cause problems is giving me a lot credit for a few words critical words. I just have opinion thats all.
Mizu



 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I copied your web site and pasted it directly to "location" in my browser. It still didn't work.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I clicked on the link you made. Here is the response I got.
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Not Found

The requested URL /~coolmizu/animate.js was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.6 Server at personalweb.sierra.net Port 80
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Any idea why it isn't working????

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 

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Registered
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Not sure... I just tried it again, and it worked for me this time too... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Maybe the server was just too busy or something at the time you tried? /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Tim
/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 35x12.5s
/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif '85 S15 4x4 2.8l, 235/75's
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That's weird. I have tried it a half dozen times at least, both using your click on link as well as copying directly to the location line. Continue to get the "not found" error message I sent to you a while ago.
This is a new one one me.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Not being able to reach my site could be a phenomenon caused by your ISP also.
If your server is servicing equipment, they will usually switch all incoming requests over to a backup machine, which is usually too small to handle all traffic. This is what my ISP explained to me recently. I am at work right now and my site comes up every time I request it so it seems to be working well. Here is my link again:
http://personalweb.sierra.net/~coolmizu/jeep.html
Mizu
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I too remember when I sat here and tried to include quite a few different URL's in my posts to help guide people to information, but they were always blanked out. It's been a while since I've posted, I didn't realize that they had changed it so that you could include URL's. I personally prefer it the way it is now.

 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Posting and censorship. STILL NOT LOADING

Have no idea what the deal is, but I still cannot log onto your site. Keep getting the following error message:
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Not Found

The requested URL /~coolmizu/animate.js was not found on this server.

Apache/1.3.6 Server at personalweb.sierra.net Port 80
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Don't know what it means, but it appears that I get onto your site, then immediately am transferred to the "animate.js" page which does not load. Do you have some kind of animated .gif file at the beginning of your "index.html" file or a call to an .html that includes this "animate.js" file? I might think it's my computer except for the above error message. Looks to me like the server can't find it. This is way over my head.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com
 
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