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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in the middle of my never ending 4.3 build and now is the time to put performance parts in the motor since it's still on a stand. I'm thinking of putting in an edelbrock performer plus cam, stock re-built hydro roller lifters (are aftermarket lifters really worth it when they are allready factory roller lifters), double roller timing chain, roller tip rockers, and a custom chip burn. They are going in a freshly re-built 4.3 w/ 60 over pistons that will bump up the comp ratio slightly, fresh valve job w/ new springs, no real "performance" work done to it.

Anybody use the edelbrock cam? It says it's for idle to 5,500 rpms, cam specs mean nothing to me so i'm kinda lost here.

Double roller timing chains any in particular i should go with?

Roller tip rockers, are they worth it? Do I want the 1.52 ratio or the 1.6 ratio ones on, i have no clue really what's stock and what changing the ratio would do. I'm thinking comp cams magnum stell roller tips.

Chips, I know howell can burn them, can anybody here burn custom chips? From what I understand you pretty much give them your cam and other specs, what you use your rig for, and that you don't want to worry about emissions and they will burn something nice for you.

Are these parts worth it? Is this a good mixtre of parts? What can i expect for horse power and torque gains over stock? Are they worth the $600-$700 in parts?
 

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my personal thoughts... It's a jeep, not a race car...

$600-$700, can go a long ways on making your jeep more capable...
 

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put the new cam in and dont touch the other **** except new lifters to ride on the new cam........
 

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I'm also going with the "leave it stock" vote. You won't gain that much with a few mods and may not end up putting the power where you want it. A fresh 4.3 will have as much power as you've ever had. And power was not what you were lacking. Put your money where it counts the most off road. Suspension/tires/recovery/safety
Maybe not in that order, but those are the things that count the most for what you/I do.

Spend it where you can get the most out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I hear the keep it stock and spend the cash elsewhere votes though i have a feeling the little voice in my head is going to keep telling me i should do it. It is also apart and i have to spend money on it anyways and i might as well spend it once instead of twice. There's almost no chance my jeep is leaving the garage this season, i'm able to make decent money to build it right now. Hopefully it will leave the shop with a really nicely done rebuilt 4.3/700r4, lots of tube work with race seats and harness, tires, flat dash w/ auto meters, and maybe new springs and a paint job. I'm in it deep and my goal is to have a nice jeep that isn't junk and i trust. Maybe i've learned something from the tj disaster about working my way through a disaster and doing things right.
 

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It all depends on who you are trying to impress.

Remember - no matter how many ponies you inch out of it, the first ride will be smiles - Wow, Neat, Impressive!
The second ride you get used to it.
The third ride you start planning for more ponies!
It never ends!!!!!

Remember, quality parts is far more important than "hi performance" junk.

As far as burning a chip now long before you know how it'll run isn't so good. Wait, try the stock chip - see how it works and what's needed BEFORE you get one burned.
EVERY engine and installation is different, even two identical engines need different things.

Then - don't fall for the "mail order" "expert" chip burners. The only way is to do it in person, on your vehicle, and test run it live, preferably on a dyno, but it can be done in the street. There's a huge gap between theorey and reality.
 

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Questions, Questions, Questions!!!!!

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Quote:
"I'm in the middle of my never ending 4.3 build and now is the time to put performance parts in the motor since it's still on a stand. I'm thinking of putting in an edelbrock performer plus cam, stock re-built hydro roller lifters (are aftermarket lifters really worth it when they are allready factory roller lifters), double roller timing chain, roller tip rockers,"

"Roller tip rockers, are they worth it? Do I want the 1.52 ratio or the 1.6 ratio ones on, i have no clue really what's stock and what changing the ratio would do. I'm thinking comp cams magnum stell roller tips."
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All good and sensable choices!
You are on solid ground here.
Buy a 'Torque' cam shaft, one for towing and pulling rather than one for excessive horsepower.
First off, the I-6 was never, and will never be a horsepower monster.
A 'Torque' cam will give you a wider power curve, and will make power lower in the RPM range without sacrificing low RPM operation.

Factory roller lifters are find, PROVIDING the rollers are NEW.
NEVER use used lifers on a new camshaft!
If you are going to buy the stock type roller lifters, then you may consider springing for a few more bucks and buying the lifters from Edelbrock that matches your cam profile.
Most of them are just good quality stock replacment that Edelbrock has fiddled with the valving a little to compliment their cam profile.
Usually not much more expensive than stock, just as easy to install, and usually worth a little bit more power (everything else being equal).

Buy your Double Roller Timing Chain from someone like Edelbrock.
Same reasons as above. It will match, and complement your cam and lifters, is usually easily adjustable, and is a 'True Double Roller'.
You would be suprised how fast cheap, no name timing chains turn to junk.
It's worth the few extra bucks (insurance) to get and keep your cam timing accurate.

Crane & Comp Cams make the best stamped or investment casted rockers with roller tips that I use.
Cheap, strong, reliable, durable.
Don't forget new pushrods. Pushrods make wear patterns just like any other wear part, and you don't want to use old pushrods on new lifters and rocker arms.

If you have the valve clearance room (meaning your valves aren't too close to the piston top) use the 1.6:1 rocker arms. This is a sneaky way to make your engine think you have a larger cam than you actually do, and it costs NO extra money, since you already had to buy new rocker arms anyway!

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Quote:
" and a custom chip burn."
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NOW you are going too fast.
Wait until your new engine is up, running, installed and broken in before throwing a new computer profile at it.
Take my word for it, there will be bugs, and it's much easier to work those bugs out when you aren't worried about the computer causing problems!
Besides, that will give you some time to make more money for your Jeep addiction.

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Quote:
"They are going in a freshly re-built 4.3 w/ 60 over pistons that will bump up the comp ratio slightly, fresh valve job w/ new springs, no real "performance" work done to it."
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You just described the perfect platform for an Edelbrock cam set and timing chain set to go!
Add a decent intake and exhaust, and you should be REALLY reliable, if not totally happy with the results.

As far as horsepower or torque inceases, that will be up to the tune...
The tuner ALWAYS has the last word!
You should really be able to tell a difference in the seat of your pants.

You seem to have very real expectations, I think you have made very good choices, and you should do fine! Set back and relax, you have certanly done your homework, and now it's paying off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thanks for the reply TR.

Edelbrock doesn't make lifters for this application, they say to use the stockers, the machine shop i got all my work done at sells reman lifters from some company in WI, about $4 a pop, any thoughts on them? They say they havn't had any issues with them.

How do i check my clearances to see if the 1.6's will work? Do i have 1.52's right now?

I've allready got a new set of pushrods in my garage.

Is the eldelbrock intake really that big of a jump? It seems like it would be really easy to change later on and it's not like i'm spending money on my stock intake right now.
 

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Lifters,
I'd buy new factory over 'Unknown Remanufactured'. I know it's a hit in the wallet, but if one fails, they will replace a $4. lifter, you are stuck with the $2,000 worth of damage it caused.
TRW usually makes a pretty fair Reman, (mostly because they were the OEM supplier).

Rocker Arms,
When you get your head bolted to the block, with head gasket in place, and the bolts torqued correctly...

Take the total lift of the cam you are using (in your cam paperwork), multiply by 1.6 on both intake and exhaust.
This will give you the total lift at the valve.

Use a dial indicator on the valve stem head, or valve spring retainer while using test springs.
If you don't have a test spring, you can use any light gauge music wire spring, or even a piece of soft heater hose.
Anything to keep the spring retainer in place and tight against the locks.

With the crankshaft rotated so the cylinder you are working with has the piston at TDC, depress the valve and watch the dial indicator.
With test springs, you should be able to do this with your fingers, but push on the valve stem, NOT THE RETAINER.

When the dial indicator reaches the 'Total Lift' point, and the valve hasn't hit the piston, you are almost home...
Add another 0.015" to allow for piston heat expansion, just to be safe.
(Yes, heat makes pistons taller, in this case, from the wrist pin to the piston top.)

The extra 0.015" will also help buffer you against over rev when you break a drive shaft or miss a shift...
It won't always save you, but it will be a bit of a buffer...
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If you don't already know how to change springs on an installed head...
(Good thing to know if you ever have to install valve stem guides to stop smoking & Oil comsumption...)

1. Roll the engine over to TDC for the cylinder you are working on.
TDC can easily be determined by looking at the rotor nose in the distributor. When it's pointing at the plug wire for the cylinder you want to work on, you are VERY close to TDC. Use a socket on the crank snout bolt and a breaker bar to fine tune the crank position while you have a chop stick or wooden dowel rod in the spark plug hole feeling for the piston.

Lock the flywheel/ flexplate off.
You can use C-clamps, block off the teeth of the flywheel, use a fan belt strap wrench on the crank pully, use a flat strap wrench on the harmonic balancer, ect., there are a number of ways, but you MUST block the crankshaft from turning.

Remove the rocker arm for the cylinder you are working on.
Buy, rent or make a valve spring compression wrench. This is usually nothing more than a piece of flat metal with a hole at the top for the rocker arm bolt to go through, and a hole located over the valve stem and large enough for the valve stem and valve locks to pass through, but small enough it pushes down on the valve spring retainer.
I make my own out of 3/16" thick by 1-1/2" to 2" wide flat strap iron.
Cut it off about 15" to 24" long.
If you need to put a bend in it to make the handle end more convient, be my guest.

The top hole (usually 3/8") passes the rocker arm bolt or stud.
The second hole needs to be about an inch in diameter, and will be centered over the valve stem and valve locks.
Push down on the free end, and the valve spring retainer will compress the valve spring, allowing the valve locks to be removed.
See below before trying this... There are other steps.

Apply shop air pressure to the cylinder you are working on, this will hold the valves in place while you compress the springs and remove the locks.
Now you have access to bare valve stem. You can replace valve guide seals, broken or weak springs, check on valve locks and lock grooves, ect.

The air pressure should hold the valve in place, but sometime it will get dislodged.
With the piston locked at TDC, even if the valve becomes dislodged from it's seat, it can't go far, the piston will keep it from falling too far.
Locking the crankshaft off keeps the air pressure from trying to turn the engine over while you are working with a loose valve in the cylinder.
(and believe me, shop air pressure WILL turn that crankshaft if you don't have it at exactly TDC, and have the crankshaft locked off!)

If you find TDC, lock off the crank, and use shop air, you really can't screw this up too much, and it sure beats a $1,000 bill for having a shop pull the head to do valve seals or check your piston to valve clearance.
 

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Good post!
When it spins with airpressure, it sure gets ugly fast!

A trick I saw from an old Oakie - behind his trailer, with almost no tools.

He found TDC, then backed off a ways.
Stuffed about 10 feet of 1/4" cotton rope in the plug hole.
Rotated toward TDC again as far as it would go.
The rope compressed inside held the valve up safely. No air, safe, worked great.
When done, he backed it down a bit and pulled the rope out.

"I asked him what if he lost the end of the rope inside?"

He said "Same thing as when a woman loses her string,"
You learn to pick cotton!"
 

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I knew the rope trick Rich but I never heard the end of the story as you put it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/chairfall.gif
 

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[ QUOTE ]
A trick I saw from an old Oakie

[/ QUOTE ]

He He ,,, Im an ol OKIE!!! and I use 5/16 nylon rope,,, been usin it for a lot of years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/40BEER.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/40BEER.gif
 

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Here's LEVE's post suggesting the rope trick in Dec 2000.
 

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THe only thing that worries me is what your going to do when the "Engine" light turn on? What do you have to trouble shoot the engine?

I don't know what data logging is available for these engines But if your going to depend upon someone burning a chip for you. You might want to be able tell them what's wrong or just drive it the way THEY give it to you.

I myself am looking forward to running a MegaSquirt computer on my conversion if I ever have enough time but I'm like that, you may not be.
 

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I remember when Larry posted that.
I'd never heard of using rope until then.

I'm still a little leary of putting forgin objects into the combustion chamber...
Make sure it's NEW rope, I'd hate for dirt, sand, metal shavings or cloths pins to make their way into a cylinder!

I use air pressure, but I have a V-belt wrench that will bolt to nearly anything, and that sure makes it handy to keep the engine from rolling over.

I think it would be kind of tuff to find your valve clearance with rope in the cylinder! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I'm supprised that no one threw a fit when I suggested you could use a piece of hose for a test spring, but the larger silcone heater hose pieces work pretty well in a pinch.

I've got to where I after checking spring install height, I automaticly install test springs on #1 before the head even gets to the engine.
It just saves time and a few steps later.

Take an old valve spring retainer (for width) and an old valve spring (for height) and go to the local tractor supply store.
You'll find GOBS of light duty general purpose springs for your application, and usually for under a buck.(actually cheaper than the silcone heater hose! They want you to buy at least a foot, and the silcone is about $2.50 a foot.)
The spring DOES NOT have to be as wide as the orignal valve spring, but I do prefer the diameter fits over one of the steps on the bottom side of the spring retainer.
Keeps the little sucker from getting kicked sideways while you are trying to get the locks back in the retainer...

Remember, you only need a few ounces of pressure for your test, just enough to keep the dial indicator return spring from pushing the valve down...

If you have trouble getting to the valve head with the dial indicator on it, use an 1/8" flat nose punch to push the valve down.
There is enough room on the valve head for bolt the dial indicator and the punch nose, and you aren't going to be pushing hard enough to hurt the valve head with the punch.

If you don't have a dial indicator & magnetic base, and the guy that did your machine work won't lend you one (he's a dick for not lending you one after you spent money in his shop), most of the chain auto parts stores will lend you one (with refundable deposit), and you can rent one at most 'U-Rent-em' stores.

Just a few more (sometimes) helpful hints...
 
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