To mee it sounds very similar to a situation on Boyd's hot rod show - they had some big bubbles in the block. They had a tool that hooked up to the top of the radiator and had a vacuum pump on it to pull any excess air out - it also pulled some fluid.

Of course it could be something else - but it is worth a try if you know someone that can perform a similar task.

Good Luck!! Sounds like a fun little Jeep.

 

Try raising the front end when you run it with the radiator cap off. This guarantees that the highest point is the cap. I don't know what else it could be.
Good Luck.

 

Have you put a cooling system tester on it to rule out head or headgasket problems? If you're not familiar with doing this, there's a good set of directions in the Chilton's CJ book that everybody has.
I see quite a few diesel engines with headgasket leaks that don't lose any coolant. The engine compression can escape through a head crack or gasket through a hole too small to let in water. Of course, diesels have 400-500 psi compression, so they're more likely to do this than a gas engine.
My wife's car had a similar problem a while back. I went through the whole cooling system until it was either fixed or new, and still had the problem. Turned out the return line coming out of the head had rotted through under the O-ring, and was SUCKING air into the head.

Steve.

 

Are you sure that the thermostat is working? I had a similar problem on an old Ford one time. After I went through a lot of frustration, it turned out that my NEW thermostat was not opening all of the way, now I always check that first.

 

I have run the jeep with and without the thermostat, so I am pretty sure that is not the problem. I filled the radiator last time with the jeep all flexed out in the garage so the cap was way up there, but I did not run it, might try that tomarrow. I have changed the oil twice, there is not any water in the oil, so the head gasket should be good right? I can't even tell if I am consuming any fluid with the way things are working right now. 5 miles down the road and my jeep pees it's self.

It must be all these new flashy SUV's making my willys freak out.

Here is the link to some old pics from August when I painted it.

Willys pics

I have had a blast driving it so far, it gets way more looks than the Jeepster! (for better or worse.....

)

 

When you run it with the cap off, can you see the water rushing back into the radiator? With no thermostat, it should be really flowing, perhaps too much. Maybe the pump isn't pumping like it should. Also, make sure your lower radiator hose is not collapsing.

A bad head gasket can be blowing combustion products into the water without having it show up in your oil - this could cause overheating too. If you don't have the equipment to do a leakdown test, you could always do a simple compression check.

Good luck

 

Yes, you can definitely have a bad head or headgasket without water in the oil. A compression test WOULD probably show this. Take the cap off after it runs a minute or so. If it's under more pressure than normal, like opening a Dr. Pepper, you probably have compression gases leaking.

Steve.

 

You can tell if hot water's circulating, and even plugged radiator cores by holding feeling the core of the radiator for hot/cold spots - if you can get to it. New doesn't always mean good - saw a new cross flow with a hunk of cardboard inside - no idea how it got there.

Most shops have a Block Check, by Stant, that sucks the air out of the radiator through a blue chemical - if it turns yellow it has CO in it - head gasket leak. Charge probably between free to $10 for them to do it.

Rev the engine and watch the lower hose to see if it collapses - that's the suction side.

Check the dist advance, too much, or not enough full advance can cause overheating. It should slowly advance from your 8 initial to around 35 @ 2500 - with everything hooked up. Wrong vacuum can pull it up too fast.

You didn't have the heads off did you - wrong head gaskets?

Probably not plugged exhaust by the way it runs so good till it gets hot. But - right side exhaust damper - manifold to headpipe - stuck closed?

How's school going?

 

I checked the timing advance today, seems to be in specs. The lower radiator hose does not collapse, and once the thermostat opens up you can see the water milling about in the radiator. I could not get it to release pressure like a soda, so I am going to have a shop do the block test. I went to two shops today, they did not have the equipment though. This is going to bum me out if I have to replace the head gaskets, I have never done that before. Pull the carb, exhaust manifolds, alternator, PS, then intake manifold and the heads? Anything else I should do down there if this turns out to be the problem? Only a few short weeks till spring break! I can't have the Jeep getting hot flashes in front of all the girls.....

School is going great, I am really getting into this airport management program, there is so much to an airport that no one sees, really cool stuff. It should be a fun career if and when I leave the Army. Thanks for the help!

 

Uh, dumb question but I've seen it before. Your electric fan - turns the right way? Normally it's kinda hard to tell by holding your hand in the airstream - feels like it's blowing both ways.
Ya gotta go by the way the blades are turned and which way it turns.
Oil pressure's OK?
You didn't do anything else to it when you pulled it out of the Jeepster? Didn't overheat then?
Water flows from one side to the other, enters at the top, leaves at the bottom. Is the lower hose real hot? Hotter than you'd expect? Normally it's much cooler than the top hose.

Heater outlets - did you use a loop of hose between them or plugs?

How 'bout getting it partially warm, but not too hot to touch around the engine. Feel if the sides of the block are warm, cold, hot, and around the heads. There may be something inside the water jacket that's plugging part of it up.
Sometimes folks cheat when they replace freeze plugs - they just drive them inside the block insead of pulling them out. One could have been done that way years ago. They normally don't rust much imersed in the coolant, but when it was sitting with the system dry it rusted, now it's moved to a bad place. Or - while it was sitting it became a nice home for a squirrel or mud dobbers. Stranger things have happened.

Maybe try opening the petcocks or plugs on the sides of the block - see if you get gobs of mud or rust. If so, possibly a good high pressure block flush may do it.

Hmmm, are you using water designed to run sideways or vertically? Verticle water doesn't work very well in a cross flow.

 

I am really getting into this airport management program

Airport management? I thought you were going into the airplane management, ie; airplane driving program. Figured you'd be commercial, instrument & multi rated by now. What's up with the Army? You're not going to get brain-washed with hellacopeeters are you?

 

Electric fan is for sure working the right way, it really sucks the air right on through. It overheated with the regular fan too, I was hoping the electric would help but no luck there.

Oil pressure kind of sucks, about 20 psi at idle with 20w-50 all warmed up. It hits about 40-50 at 2500-3000 rpm. I need a better full sweep gauge to really tell.

I just looped the heater outlets, and ran the hose down the passenger side valve cover. The top hose gets really hot, the lower hose stays pretty cool, even while it overheats. I will feel around the block for hot/ cool spots this afternoon, the motor did sit for a while, at least 9 months or so, but inside the garage all wrapped up. I am using verticle water, reason being that the jeep will run cooler on it's side.....

Tim, I was going to go into airline management, but I have steered away from that just I don't know what is going to happen to all the airlines within the next 4 years or so. Everyone is going to have to do some major changing to stay profitable. I figure airports will be around longer than airlines.

I have my private licence, but I have not had any time to go further than that. I live with a flight instructor who is CFI, multi, commercial with over 1000 hours and I might fly with him some and knock out my multi and IFR. I don't know what I will do for the Army, but a flight slot is a possibility.

Still driving the 767?

 

Oil pressure kind of sucks, about 20 psi at idle with 20w-50 all warmed up. It hits about 40-50 at 2500-3000 rpm.

I would not say that your oil pressure sucks if you can maintain 20 psi at idle when warm/hot. Most Buick engines that have been used quite a bit are doing good to have 5 or better idle pressure. On the higher rpm scale, too much pressure is not good. I would say 50-60 would be ideal, but wouldn't squawk too much over the 40-50 range you're describing. My guess to your problem would be a coolant circulation problem, not getting enough coolant to go thru the block. Possibly some blockage or restriction in the block, but it's just a guess. Let us know what the answer is when you figure it out.

Still driving the 767?

Mostly 757's, but an occassional 767 shows up for some wide-body fun.

 

Nice MB; but why red? Shouldn't it be OD Green?

My 86 2.8 Cherokee had a similar problem once; just after a flush/refill, hoses, radiator cap and thermostat change. I followed the same train of thought that you have. Like RRich wrote in a previous post, "New doesn't mean good"; I tested my 'new' cap and it turned out to be not so good. Replaced he cap and all was well. HTH and Good Luck!!

 

I'm not that familiar with the Buick's plumbing, and am too tired/lazy to get dressed again and grab a flashlight and go out back and look at the one behind my barn, but after reading your latest post I wonder if you plumbed your heater hoses into a nice little bypass from the engine.

I did that once on a ford 4 cyl when the heater core started leaking, and it soon overheated because a lot of the water just pumped around the little short circuit loop I had just made instead of going through the motor. I ended up capping the heater lines instead of just looping them and the problem went away.

Like I say, not sure if that can happen on the 225's pump, but just something else to consider.

 

You say it overheats but don't go into detail to what it does. Does it boil over? Does the gauge read overheating? I had a truck that gave me an erronous reading on the gauge. I replaced the water pump, fan clutch, had the radiator cleaned and changed the thermostat all to no avail. I took it to the radiator shop and they put a therometer in the top of the radiator where the hot return water comes in and the temp was 190. It was a faulty sending unit. Start with the cheapest avenue and try that. Good Luck!

 

[image]http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=1175489[/image]

It is green! The red pictures are primer.

Found the problem! There was a rag shoved up the intake side of the water pump, I found it while I was about the take off the water pump to see if it was broken. I must have missed it when I put in the radiator, go figure.

Thanks for the help, now it runs too cool, I can't get the temp above 160 with the fan OFF!

Thanks for the help, I will get up some wheeling pictures soon, I found a cool little place in Daytona with some real rocks, and my new front driveshaft from Tom Woods came in today.

 

Hehe! Go figure. I'm so paranoid about leaving rags in engines and hydraulics I count 'em like a surgeon. Is your thermostat still out? In Colorado in February, you'll need a hot one, like 195 degrees, to get anything out of the heater vents.
BTW I lived in Divide for about 6 months after I got out of the Army. And on that subject, don't let 'em keep you.

Getting paid for what you do and not getting shot at is much better IMAO.

Steve.

 

Glad you got it figured out! Don't feel bad Herc...been done tons of times! A local bud had enough of the spitting/sputtering from his Edelbrock intake/(too large) Holley last year and yanked it for a stock intake & 2100. After pulling the intake off, he stuffed the heads full of paper towels...you can see where this going... After a few trys to crank it with the new intake/carb...it was puffing out the carb??? Hmmm, looked like a "few" valves were hung open

I drug him around the block twice to get it cranked (on 6 cylinders) and after about 15 minutes the last shards of the paper towels dislodged and came out the pipes smoldering! He still insists on calling it "Brawny", but everyone else calls it "Bounty"

 

In reply to:

but everyone else calls it "Bounty"

[/ QUOTE ]
-cuz now its the "Quicker picker upper?"

 

Heater? Umm.... don't have one of those!!

I am in florida now anyway, I don't need one, and folding down the windshield is better than AC.

I am glad others have left shop rags in somewhat important places, I guess there are worse things I could do.

I think I am going to like the Army, someone has to get shot at, might as well be me. I think it is way better than people coming stateside and shooting us here.

2LT pay is not that bad either for coming right out of school with a solid job.

Anyone watching the Daytona 500? I scored a full credential for garages, pits, and infield good for all this weekend, should be fun!! The President is supposed to come in, that is going to mess up everything here at the airport. There are already 100's of private jets parked along the crosswind runway, I don't know where they can park that big honkin blue 747.....

 

Sometimes it's downright funny what you find inside an engine. I found a big claw hammer under the intake in the valley - no damage at all! Another one I found a nice big Snap-On screwdriver in the valley.

But the classic - a friend had a Fiat dealership - sold a new car, as the guy tried to drive out the slope of the driveway he lost oil pressure. They pushed it back in the lot, oil pressure was fine. When he tried to drive out again, he lost oil pressure again. They gave him another car.
When they pulled it down - they found a pack of Italian cigarettes floating around in the pan, plugging the screen at that angle.
I wonder if warranty covered it?

 

I had a friend who was an extremely competent mechanic who rebuilt an engine in a motor home. When he took the carb off, he put the little linkage bolts on top of the choke butterfly. When he put the carb back on weeks later, he didn't see any bolts, got some new ones, and bolted it down. At some point while it was off, the bolts fell in the carb and stayed on the throttle plate. When he started it, 2 of his brand new pistons and sleeves and his freshly machined head lasted about 30 seconds.

Hurc-
I guess I've misunderstood your situation from the start. I know from talking to my folks that Colorado's been getting lots of snow, so when I saw Colorado on your profile, I assumed you were overheating in 20 degree weather. I was wondering what part of Colorado you were in, so I searched for Embry-Riddle there, and found out they had a school in the Springs. I then further ASSumed that you were IN the Army and going to school at the same time. Oops! Sorry.

I thought you were enlisted, re-upping for a shot at flight school. A lot of people did things like that when I was in 15 years ago, and ended up getting cut from some indoctrination program and were stuck with their same old crummy job for another 6 years. I personally took a flight physical 'cause I wanted to be a chopper pilot, which is when I found out one of my four scores for eyesight was 20/25, not 20/20. But I didn't reenlist for anything.

Anyway, since you haven't BEEN in the service yet, that is a different thing entirely. And I wouldn't know the first thing about an officer's experience. I'm very proud of the things I accomplished in the Army, and what I stood for. To this day the best people I can think of were the people I knew then. Some of us still keep in touch. One of my reasons for enlisting was to see the world, and I certainly did that (even though a few of the places had people that kept trying to shoot me). I have very few regrets about joining, and very few regrets about getting out.

So the short version- I didn't understand your situation. Now that I do, more power to you and best of luck.

Steve.