/wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif Tex,.....You have NO IDEA just how bad it really is.....NO IDEA. I have hated that dirtbag since 1992. I knew he was a skunk the SECOND time I heard him speak. He is just ITCHING to declare martial law and stay in the oral-sex office. If he could JUST get those guns! The Clintoids get on the net and find these whackos who are wired wrong and encourage their wierdness and then tell them: "Hey...my uncle has an Uzi he isn't using....I can get it for you for fifty bucks!" And you have another shooting which PERFECTLY serves their agenda...which is getting the guns so the UN CAN TAKE OVER!! Naturally, I'm going to surrender all of mine. Uh-huh..../wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave

 

Lets just say I have a few... uh... "things" that are not registered, and never will be - When they come to round up the... uh... "thing" owners, no numbers to track /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

David
Davids 4x4 Page

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Unless we ally ourselves with "kitchen table America" and "soccer Mom America" we will never have the influence necessary to do any good. "INCLUSIVE" is the word......and we want to make folks think that ALL Americans are kicked out of the forests, not just Jeep or 4 X 4 owners. Don't forget, most folks don't even know what that means. The dirtbag's lackeys are real good at discrediting "groups"...but they won't DARE strike at American Pie households who want to go camping with the kids. See how it works? We BEAT them to the American people. We get our message out before the dirtbag can counter it by discrediting our cause. We get there first with the hit-piece ads, and as you well know, the second liar never has a chance. That is what the entire Clintoid organization operates on.....has for YEARS!/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif I recently got a catalog in the mail with all sorts of illegal stuff for sale from silencers to booby traps to mods for AKs. I KNOW that the catalog is a "trojan horse"....just designed to collect the names of "anti-gov subversives" so whoever orders from it will be on "the list"/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif It never stops.....it's a war already but nobody realizes it./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave

 

Dave- I agree with you that we have to incorporate more than just the 4x4 community. There may be thousands of us, but there are millions of "them." As for the anti-Christ in the White House, I'm throwing a party the day he's out of there!!!
There was an earlier post about a mailinglist. I like that idea since more people have email than internet access. So I encourage everyone to sign up on the list. It'll even help with anyone who just won't come look because this is on the Jeep board. My $.02..................

_____________________
John
95.5 YJ with "stuff"
http://SonsofThunder4x4.com

 

Re: CJDave

Dave, nothing against alliances as long as you don't stray too far from your goals. But, I frequently find various groups (of which I'm a member) on opposite sides of the debate table. And as an NRA member, I can assure you that the gun-rights groups don't have any interest in getting wrapped in "related" issues. Yes there is strength in numbers, but only if we're all pushing in the same direction.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

I guess I kind of started this, but I'm not sure how well a rally is going to work in our bennifite anymore. Also all we're doing is reinventing to wheel that blue ribbon already created and is doing a good job with. What is our purpose anyways. We are infringeing on other peoples names and ideas. I'm going to take a break from this subject for a while so people can consider what we're doing. Please forward any further questions to jepper131 or CJDave. I seem to be a catalist for this movement. Stop and think about this. I'll check back after I do some 4wheeling this weekend. Remember the wheel has been invented.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7

 

Re: CJDave

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif This is a skosh different than guns, Tex...soccer Mom's may not want to shoot, but they DO want the kids to go campin'. That's my reasoning on this. I do, however, appreciate your insight; your posts are always right on. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif I used to work for a seminar company that gave courses on organizational power and successful board leadership. I have watched the Clintoids for YEARS now and can see the methods MORE THAN CLEARLY. They'll beat us if we don't use their tactics better than they can./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave

 

The post about inclusiveness was right on. The only reason that the Democrats are so successful is they know how to bring groups together on a single issue.
By bad-mouthing Clinton(who got what 49% of the vote?), homosexuals, and other liberals who might other-wise support the cause is a sure way to lose.
Lets break it down: % of population that is White 71.6 - 52% who are women=34.4%. of that 10-15% are homosexual(who vote like they are twice that) =31.1% of that lets say(being VERY generous) 65% vote =20.2% , cograts you just lost.
My point is this. You have to fight your own individual fights, One At A Time, that is if this issue is really that important to you.

 

Re: CJDave

I remember the '97 UFWDA meeting where we talked about Soccer moms & getting the backing of ranchers & miners almost in the same breath. Soccer moms have the ##'s & big business has the $$$. Problem is, soccer moms won't back big business & if that's who we're hooked up with, they won't back us either. And I think that's where BRC is right now. They've tried to take on so many unpopular causes at once that they lack any support from the masses. And that's what we need - support from the masses - those undecided, middle-of-the-road voters.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

Re: CJDave

what we need to do is slow down, keep focused on our goal and stick to it. Like everyone has said before! Our eventual goal; rallys at the capitols/ washington DC in order to protest the land closures that keep us out of the wilderness. The first stage, talk, is done now we move on to action. The web page, whoever is working on that please email me or get on the list server, will be a great help. lets move from there.

MudFlap 87 YJ POS!!

 

Re: CJDave

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif You are exactly right 131. There have been a lot of good ideas put forth. I, for one, need to think bout this and do some scheming as to what REALLY is the best approach. There have been SO MANY good thoughts expressed and from a lot of different perspectives that I truly believe the seed of the movement is somewhere in all this rhetoric and passion. One thing I have always appreciated about this BBS is that there is so much hidden knowledge out there. Things have been brought up here; experiences; insight; that I would NEVER have thought about. I dread doing this to my printer, but I am going to print out all of this thread and really look it over; highlighting good ideas and suggestions. I really believe that this project has value./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave

 

Re: CJDave

i think this is a great idea. it does need a little focus, but we are on to something good that a lot of people can participate in and make a difference. i feel that a lot of people think that all those letters just end up in the round file and that is why they dont write. a dominate show of faces is one way a making a statement, and can be positive if done correctly and peacefully. the last thing you want is to march on the white house (or state house) and have a riot break out. that would be bad and do more harm than good. but i think that it is time that our public servants actually have to face real people and not get to hide in their office full of aids, or behind a camera where they can say and not be questioned face to face. we also need to make sure we control the media so they can not manipulate the intent of this rally.

dan

I do not intend to offend,I offend with my intent

 

Re: CJDave

I know I said I was leaving this till I got back from wheeling, but I wanted to check it one more time. I know I helped to start this, so what I'm about to say will sound really bad. Only once in history has a march/rally on DC ever accomplissed anything. That march was in the 1960s when Martin Luther King Jr. gave his famous I have a dream speech. Remember he got assainated a few yours later and civil rights still has yet to be solved. I got an e-mail from TREAD lightly and they are NOT interested in this because they are an EDUCATIONAL organization and must stay in accordance with their bi-laws. They directed me to Blue Ribbon and North American Recreational Council. IF we are going to form an organization we need help from them first. The other option id to get one of them ,who have been around for a while, to take more action. In terms of most americans this organization is way the hell to radical. Most americans, the ones we need, are divided right down the middle between liberal and conservative. Also we don't need to be making stereotypical comments because you don't know who is reading this, and we don't need to lose any support anywhere. A march might accomplish something if done correctly. We can't rush into this without alot of support and organization. I'm not concerned about this going too slow, but I know that everybody is worried about loosing more land before something can be done. If we aren't organized it will be destined to fail and could possible set 4wheeling back so far that we my never recover. We could loose support from everybody and be without a sport. If we are organized, even after land is closed, and if we have support of the majority of the people then we can get the goverment to open land up; because if they don't we will have the support of the people and they will lose their jobs. I'm not abandoning the group, if something big comes up email me and I will try to check this post a couple times a day (laptop computer and cell phone), and I'm not discourage. I'm tired of sitting infront of a computer and I want to do something fun so I'm going wheeling (TREAD lightly of course). Remember if we are organized and have the support of the masses we CAN do anything, including opening up land that is closed.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7

 

enjoy your weeked, I've been thinking as well but I still think we're into something good. Email me when you get back

MudFlap 87 YJ POS!!

 

It has been real interesting watching the birth of this topic. From a simple idea to the start of a complex issue. It will take a lot of planning and patience. The biggest ally could be the government itself. The problem is how to make this issue their issue. It has to include Ma and Pa of America.

I still like the idea of a gathering/march/protest at Capital Hill and/or the State Capitals. It will be newsworthy hopefully and can be the catalyst of gaining more widespread support. The Land Closure issue has been around for awhile and it will take time to make inroads. We will have to use 4lo before we can use 4hi.

I am a Canadian with ties to America and I will be more than willing to attend a Rally at Capital Hill or in St Paul or Madison.

Cutch 88YJ

 

The leadership in this "movement" is taking form from its rather "nebulous" origins ...........someone grab the bull by the horns................and tell me where and when to show up. (that is, I await the word from the high command)


GeeAea

 

I think we started going a little far afield. I say we just pick a date, let everyone know about it and do this. All this organizing is starting to sound like "big government" to me. Yes, we need to be organized as far as our rally goes. No, we don't need to form a government in exile. If O.A. and A.O. are going to present copyright/trademark problems, how about Citizens Endorsing Multiple use of Public Lands or C.E.M.P.L.-(simple)

"My other car is a BULLDOZER"

 

A date is a good idea and I don't mean to the the prom.
Maybe something that would be around one of the Jeep Jamboree's or Camp Jeep. I'm not sure when and where they are but it might be a way of gettin more people the opportunity of attending the rally.

Cutch 88YJ

 

Just got my Jeep Jamboree 2000 Schedule in the mail yesterday.
The closest Jeep Jamborees to DC are the following:
Presidents Jeep Jamboree Harrisonburg, VA May 12-14
Pocono Summer Jeep Jamboree Mt. Pocono, PA June 2-4 & 9-11
Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree Bradford, PA June 16-18
Daniel Boone Jeep Jamboree Lexington, KY June 2-4 & August 25-27
Appalachian Jeep Jamboree Murphy, NC Oct. 13-15
Pine Barrens Jeep Jamboree Abescon, NJ April 14-16

They say the schedule will be on their website later this month.
Certainly, the "Presidents" Jeep Jabmoree is the likely candidate.
Maybe get a rally on the Sunday after (although you may lose a few people 'cause their jeeps wont run after the jamboree). Jamboree Trail rides are only on Friday & Saturday. Just a thought.

 

Thoughts

Well folks, I had a chance to do some thinking and research on this whole issue over the weekend, and I've come to the following conclusion.

I've decided that rather than dump time and effort into this new organization, I'm going to join the Blue Ribbon Coalition and get involved with them, as well as the UFWDA. If you are not already a member of these organizations, I urge you to visit their websites and get involved. Their goals seem to be very similar, if not identical, to the goals that have been outlined for Outdoor America, and they are already established organizations with resources and knowledge that I doubt many of us have. I wholeheartedly believe that more good will be done if the membership of these groups is bolstered by people like us, rather than forming splinter groups with little or no clout where it matters. I do support the 4wd rally in DC and the state capitols, and will happily make that trek, but I also think that the Blue Ribbon Coalition might be willing to sponser this activity, rather than form a new group simply for that activity. There are a lot of committed people that have replied to these strings - if you folks aren't already members (I'm not either - or wasn't until 45 minutes ago), please, please, please look into it.

Tim, I apologize for commiting to doing a logo for Outdoor America then backing out, but I truly beleive that this is the proper route to take. If you end up going forward with this, and run into trouble finding someone else to do the logo, please let me know and I'll try to design one.

Anyone have ties to Blue Ribbon that can find out if they will help organize the rally?

I welcome any comments or feedback regarding this post, but please don't flame me.

Marc
Contagious Racing

 

Re: Thoughts

I agree with Marc. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. If anybody wants to go ahead with this it is their problem now. I went wheeling this weekend and I saw some of the sickest destruction of trails that I can remember seeing. There were shooters leaving their target (TVs, pumpkins, computers, etc.) and shells. I also saw a CLUB not following tread lightly. They were destroying the trail. I wouldn't mind seeing the trail closed, and if I was the Gov. I wouldn't hesitate to close more trails to prevent this from happening. We couldn't stop this because steering down the barrel of a gun is not our favorite thing to do. My club (CSU Big Wheels) is a member of UFWDA, CoA4WDCI, and TREAD lightly and we do not destroy trails like this. If you are a member of a club that does this please make them stop because this is what is destroying and closing the trails.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7