You may want to check with Bumblebee (Scotty Dalton) before you buy. He had a smaller Griifin (might be what you need), then went to a larger model to cool his 350Puick. If he still has it, it'll probably setup fine for the 4.1

I went with an 20k#(?) cooler on the Moss. The small 15-16K coolers looked like PS coolers....too dang tiny. I need to install a temp gauge in the lines to see if it's actually helping or hendering by keeping it too cool.

 

there's no such thing as having tranny fluid that's to cold

 

Here's a tranny temp failure chart.

 

Interesting chart. So I guess there's no reason not to go with the biggest cooler that will fit. Thanks.

 

If you take it into c-c-cold areas, I was told by a tranny
guy that it can get too cold, won't shift properly - he
experienced it himself. He had big problems pulling a
trailer with his Ford Pu - couldn't get it to shift up,
then when it did, it wouldn't go back down.
But, with a tranny cooler, even a big one it's not a
problem. Let the tranny cooler get the fluid first, then
go to the radiator.
If it cools it down too much the radiator warms it up again.
He was stuck in Canada till he switched lines, then no more
problem.

Think about an oil cooler too if you are worried about cooling.
Oil does about 50% of the cooling as it is without an external
cooler. Even just running a remote dual oil filter does
wonders. Biggest problem is "where to put it?"

 

Rich - I wasn't planning to run the trans fluid through the radiator - just through the external cooler mounted behind the radiator. The problem is that a custom dual core radiator is big $$$, but I can get a two-row single-core aluminum one for under $200.

I didn't think it would be a problem running it through the external cooler only, but now you have me worried. I really don't have the extra cash to get a dual core radiator. I had mine completely rebuilt before I figured out the stock one would never keep up with the heat generated by the 4.1.

I guess I could keep the stock radiator and add both an external oil cooler and tranny cooler, but I'm not convinced even that would keep it cool. I'd rather just get the stock radiator out of there, but I don't want to save the motor just to blow the tranny. Thoughts?

 

Andy
Dont waste your money on the Griggin radiator it wont cool the motor been there done that. Fact is I have the one I took out of mine I would sell cheap. I'm trying a new set up and will have it running this weekened. Will be glad to share if it works but DO NOT TRY THE GRIFFIN RADIATOR YOU WILL WASTE YOUR MONEY

Give me you email and Ill let you know about the new combo.
Don King

 

Andy
Dont waste your money on the Griggin radiator it wont cool the motor been there done that. Fact is I have the one I took out of mine I would sell cheap. I'm trying a new set up and will have it running this weekened. Will be glad to share if it works but DO NOT TRY THE GRIFFIN RADIATOR YOU WILL WASTE YOUR MONEY

Give me you email and Ill let you know about the new combo.
Don King

 

Andy
Dont waste your money on the Griggin radiator it wont cool the motor been there done that. Fact is I have the one I took out of mine I would sell cheap. I'm trying a new set up and will have it running this weekened. Will be glad to share if it works but DO NOT TRY THE GRIFFIN RADIATOR YOU WILL WASTE YOUR MONEY

Give me you email and Ill let you know about the new combo.
Don King

 

An aluminum radiator assembled with epoxy is a P.O.S.(most griffins are)
Use one that is welded and it will last. Muscel Motorsports have new welded ones for under 200 bucks.(1-877-6muscel)
I have used several of these with good sucess. Including our 450 horsepower 57 chevy which wanted to cook. If you put a hiflow water pump on, it will help tremendously. (Stewart, Flow cooler, etc.)
Toads pretty sharp, but you can run trans fluid too cold. It just isnt likely to happen below the Mason Dixon line. 180 degrees is perfect. a 1 foot square cooler is plenty if it gets air flow. Transmissions obviously heat up the most under acceleration and climbing hills. This is where air flow is at the lowest speeds. Put a small fan on it and it will live a long life.

 

the way I understand it, you want trans to get hot enough to evaporate moisture in it. water bad for stuff

John P.

 

ANDY,
Two things,i have found that taking a thermostat out of the cooling system will allow to much flow so the coolant isn't in the rad long enough to cool down,taking the inside out of the thermostat and just installing the outer ring will cut down the flow and allow the coolant to cool in the rad longer before returning to the engine.Second,go to your local napa store a get a bottel of LUBE GUARD (RED)this helps lower the temp and extend the life of your trans fluid.AMAZING STUFF

 

damnit tom, busting my balls again. ok i suppose if you live in the N pole, your tranny temp will get to cold.
you generally do NOT want to run the fluid through the radiator last. it defeats the pourpose of putting on a cooler in the first place.
A/C condensers work good as tranny coolers.
in my opinion, brass radiators OF THE SAME SIZE, cool just as good, if not better than aluminum.

 

Damnit Toad! Lots of folks on here live where it gets cold!
Hehe!

Hows the hybrid comming?

 

Yup its true a rad can run too cold, but having it run through your radiator is a fools mistake, In heat the radiator heats up and tranny fluid through a rad runs 240, what does that due to the viscosity of YOUR oil? ill let you in on a secret, motor oil ooses all lubricity at 240, its like running 7up in your engine at that temp, but in the cool the tranny never heats up untill 10 min after the engine is completely hot, because at an idle the tranny doesnt make squat for heat, I guess optimun temp is hard to find, i run a larger cooler on my jeep, Ive found that if you run radiator style you overheat after beatingon the old MILL' so i run it off the rad auxillary style.....

 

Not on my Jeep, but in my Ford F250 I've had two of the internal tranny coolers that are part of the radiator go bad, pressure inside radiator after shutdown exceeded pressure on trans cooler forcing water into trans everytime I turned it off. Ended up with a new transmisison twice. Not bad for 386,000 miles, but could have lasted longer. If I was building a system I think I'd go seperate.

 

Amen..a tranny will not shift properly if too cold. But that is a rarity and it should warm up with motion. And you will add heat TO the tranny by running back thru the internal cooler in rad.

Griffen started as a drag radiator. Much different than one for a daily driver or off-roader.

The punch-out-the-center of the thermostat is an old trick. You can also buy aftermarket"restrictors" to do the same thing: slow down fluid speed to leave it in the rad. long enough to cool.

My cummins truck w/auto didn't run to the rad. It had a factory installed cooler with a fan mounted on the frame beside the tranny. It worked really well there. Might be a thought instead of taking up the limited space in the front of a jeepster.

Don't be too hard on Toad. Poor old boy was wearin' a double layer of carharts last weekend while we were running around the toadworks in shirt sleeves and even shorts.

Lol J/K Mike

 

Speaking of framerails... Summit has a cooler I use a good bit. It is a frame rail mounted cooler. (Cheap too) Longer and narrow it can be mounted just outside the trans. on the frame rail and up high enough to stay safe. (relative term!) I bent a simple "L" shaped piece of aluminum to be a heat shield and slid it in behind it when bolting it on. They have 2 lengths. Had one on the Blazer for years now.
As far as Toad goes... You cant be too hard on him!

LOL!

 

I plan to mount an auto tranny cooler in front of the radiator this summer. Anybody know how much my radiator cooling will be degraded by putting the tranny cooler in front of it? Is it even an issue?

 

Yes, too cold, or too hot is bad.
In Southern Calif and warm or hot areas where it never gets
very cold it's common practice to run the external cooler
after the radiator cooler. The radiator takes some, then
the external cooler gets it down further.

But in cold climes the opposite is best. The external gets
it too cold, the radiator warms it back up a little.
Since the trans fluid isn't in the radiator very long it
doesn't get it up to engine temp, but does warm it if it's
too cold - cools it if it's too hot. The radiator cooling
tube is short and simple, not really much to it, not very
effective. Sometimes it's just a simple tube than runs in
and out, no loops, no krinkles, nothing but a short smooth
tube. That's why external coolers are needed.

Somewhere recently I was looking at an ad or catalog somewhere
that had an external trans cooler that had a thermostat built
in. That would be the hot set up - no radiator cooler needed.
The fluid that goes to the radiator is only a portion of the
fluid from the pump - it's just a bypass, so when the cooler's
T-Stat is closed it doesn't hurt anything.

You might want to call a famous expert on auto trannys - the
guy who set the standards for performance and racing transmissions -
Art Carr Transmissions in Huntington Beach or Seal Beach CA.
Ask for Art - a super nice guy - he can fix you up.

Do a search on oil coolers on the web - lots of data about
how much the oil cools the engine and how effective an oil
cooler really is. And even just adding a remote dual filter
is very effective too. The volume of oil is increased not
only by the extra filter but by the hoses too. And the extra
surface areas do wonders. That in combination with an external
oil cooler may be enough without touching the radiator.

And - a radiator guy I was talking to a couple months ago
said yes, aluminum transfers heat a little better, but it's
a fairly slight increase. One more row on a brass one is
much more effective than going aluminum.

 

Thats why I put them on the frame rail. If not you are pushing 180+ air through the radiator. It helps to move it if you are border line overheating. Dont forget the shroud on the fan, very important. (even electrics) Have at least half you fan up in the shroud.

Tomcat is remembering some serious overheaters he has fought!

 

Oh yeah, if you run a ENGINE oil cooler in colder climates, get one with a thermastat built in. If not you will be running molasses thru the engine.

 

If you are going custom in the temp control department then go custom. they make in line(looped) thermostats for oil line and that mean you could have one on your tranny line also. Most of the guys I know around here if they are building a car/truck have one built to fit the opening. If you don't know of a custom shop in your area..(I know its the wrong side of town) try Superior Radiator in Mt Clemens MI 586-463-8722 they custom everything from modelA radiators to a s10 that depending on the engine thats in it at the time is 800-1200+hp to run on the street(cruise nights). I guess my point is if its avalable go to a local that builds and runs his stuff. If you go custom the inlet/outlet openings are sized an postition (within reason) by you as are all the mounting flanges.A couple of of dollar is still a couple of dollars but in the total price of the toy its not that big of a percentage.

another.02

Tony

 

I love it when a plan falls apart!

Thanks for all the advice. It appears there are a few ways to skin this cat!

Now I'm thinking I should just try running both an external transmission cooler and oil cooler (with a thermostat), but keep my stock radiator for now. I just had it recored, but its only a two-row and it still can't keep up with the heat from BOTH the trans and the engine. It gets up around 230 on the highway when I'm pushing it and simply won't come down.

With two external coolers, I bet it will do the trick, even with the stock radiator. If not, then I'll put in a three-core copper/brass CJ V8 conversion radiator. I called a few places and I'm not sold on the aluminum. I don't want to throw good money at it for something I don't need and/or won't work. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

Tom- With a frame rail mounted tranny cooler, do your feet get hotter or do you mount over on the passenger side?