Here's the link:

http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads//showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=offroadchevstandard&Number=168145

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd

 

Y'all heard of the suburb of Atlanta that passed legislation that all of the male head of household, homeowners have to buy, permit, and carry concieled <sp> a handgun??? Crime dropped to nil. Theres a story of a guy who went in to rob a convience store, pulled a gun, called to empty the cash drawer, and all of a sudden there're like 5-10 "*****-*****'s" He looks around and is staring at drawn guns... He walked out of that one REAL slow...

Point; The comunity also required a gun class, which I strongly believe is a pre-requisite to owning a firearm. Even my father's Mosburg .22 rifle. Safe handling of a gun is not an accident, but here I am preaching to the choir...

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

I think like Chuck Heston, FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS. If the government wants my weapons they'll have a fight on thier hands.

Gary

 

It is amazing how just the sound of the receiver,chambering a round sends chills up a criminals spine.
About 10 years ago in Southern Cal(West Covina), I was awaken by my Black Lab growling under his breath, so I got up and looked outside to see two guys(I'll leave it at that), almost casually inventorying items as they came out of the rear of my Blazer(yeah a chevy,..last one ever). I went down stairs with my Barretta A303 and intentionally left the receiver open, as "Buck and I came up behind them from the side gate, You shouda seen the excitement when I closed the receiver "katcheenk" the guy all the way inside the Blazer almost knocked himself out, on the roof when he tried to get out,(just before the I sent "Buck" in to have his way with him),(90 lb 4 yr old Lab with an attitude, in close tight quarters). The guy ouside, I barrell whipped repeatedly, and stood on his chest in my underwear until the police arrived(and consequently drew down on me, because of my stance on the poor crimanal, who ran when I let him up,,Duhh), they also threatened to shoot my dog when I released him on the runner. Anyway it was the sound of closing the receiver that set the whole thing in motion. You take away the threat that a criminal may have a weapon shoved in his face at any time durring, home intrusions especialy, and they will be sneaking into and walking around in any home they like , as if it were their God givin right.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
Ol Murphy(Murphy's law), should be in prison by now, for all times he's kicked the crap out of Lady Luck.

 

We were having that debate in my house here, and I asked the person who didn't want to have anything to do with guns to stand in the other room. I took out my paintball gun, and opened the bolt. Its a very distinctive and different sound than the hammerpull on a revolver or slide action, or even a rifle bolt, but it was convincing enough that she admitted if she were doing something deviant, he'd drop everything and hightail it outa there...

Granted the bolt to my rifle is locked in the ammo box in a different room from my rifle, and I don't even have any ammo in the house, live or otherwise, but a rifle isn't a home defence weapon... Someday I'd like to get a handgun, haven't ever looked for one, but I've fired a 9mm, and .22 handguns, as well as my father's (now mine) Mosburg .22 long rifle, and an AR-12 off-shoulder (actually had better spread than prone). What handgun would you recomend? I've seen 'em with different setups, but I guess a 9mm would be plenty. Jeepchick has even given permission when we get a house... Also how do you keep it secured and what about young kids... Granted, when they're old enough (objective decision) I'm teaching my kids everything about firearms, my father didn't teach me anything, I actually taught him a few things about HIS rifle, and that's not right... This is something that gets passed DOWN through the generations... /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Anyway... Just wanting some thoughts and opinions... Sorry if this has been brought up before.

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif My favorite people-killer is the S&W Model 640 hammerless revolver in .357 Mag. Jeepchick shoots a five-shot Rossi Rev. Jeepchick WILL kill anyone who comes in here while I am away on bizness. There won't be a question and answer session first, they'll just get shot. That's what a career in Corrections does to you./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif The simplicity of the revolver is a HUGE advantage, and with my hammerless, there is even less stuff than normal on the gun. Not shrouded hammer....hammerLESS./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

CJDave
Moonguy before coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif....after coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 

I prefer my Taurus pt-99 stainless 9mm. If your a big guy, this gun fits perfectly. It is the same as the Beretta 9mm, but alot cheaper. IMHO it is balanced perfectly. It's a little big for my jeepchick, so she is quite proficient with our S & W .22 sport. Take her to the range and she is like dirty harry. She empties the clips faster then I can reload them.

Keith

ITS GOOD ENOUGH /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
http://dreamwater.com/ironpines/

 

The best handgun to have is one you're comfortable with. It's like buying a jeep, no two are the same and what's right for one person doesn't fit another. Don't get junk, a good handgun is a family heirloom.

I have a M439 S&W 9mm, it's single capacity, but I don't have large hands. I bought it used and can fire it well, I even hunt with it in tight brush. My backup, or ankle gun, is a plain jane .22 auto, it's light, small, and not noticeable when worn.

As to kids in the house, education is the best deterrent, followed by a gun lock (through the barrel, not a trigger guard), then a locked case. Even an ammo box with a lock will do, you should lock the ammo in this, it's surprising how many kids will experiment with the ammo alone. Never leave it loaded unless it's on you. I have no locks on my guns, and they're left with full clips, although none in the chamber. We have no kids (and very few friends with kids) and I'm an instructor, but I also want to be able to get at it if need be. Showing kids what the gun can do is also important, take them out and shoot at 2L soda bottle filled with water. When the bottle explodes, let them know that could just as easily be a head. It's to the point, but there's no place for pussy footing around when it comes to firearms.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd

 

FIMud CJ : The best thing for children is to learn early. If you hide it and dont teach them to not touch it or any weapon when you are not there, it invites curiosity and they will want to look for it when you are not there. I keep all mine secured in safe but my children learned to handle, shoot weapons and hunting rifles at young age. Sent them to hunters saftey course. If they are at freinds house and kids get to somebody elses weapons they will leave now and tell someone.There are no accidents with guns only tragedys is the first lesson to children. Most people where I live are comfortable with weapons, many have concealed weapons permits. Jeff

 

Thanks everybody.

Jeff, I agree wholeheartedly... But I was more asking what y'all thought about the various ways to actually store it. Right now, I have my rifle in a plastic gun case that has two built in 'honest' locks (VERY flimsy) and a long shank masterlock fed through the handle... I also have a trigger lock on the trigger guard. The bolt is also locked seperatly and away from the rifle. This all was nessecary for my jeepchick to feel safe about it... And with a ring (and all associated) in another year or so... I need a good way for this to be securly locked up... yet accessable to me if needed... A safe or cabnet isn't really pratical, and would be a pain to move.
And jeepchick _IS_ going to go through a gun safty course before I even say word one to her about it... that way she knows everything I'm saying is right...
Thanks for the info so far.

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

In reply to:

What handgun would you recomend? I've seen 'em with different setups, but I guess a 9mm would be plenty. Jeepchick has even given permission when we get a house... Also how do you keep it secured and what about young kids... Just wanting some thoughts and opinions... Sorry if this has been brought up before.

It's been brought up before, but it's a subject we all love talking about. /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

The best handgun is the one you're comfortable with, but anything under a .38 (some would argue even that's too small) has marginal stopping power. However, unless you shoot enough (targets, not people! /wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif) to be accurate with a handgun, a short barreled shotgun is probably a better home defense weapon, especially if you're not alone in the house.

As for the kids..... start 'em early. Both my daughters were shooting (BB guns at first, of course, now .22's and I'm getting ready to break out the .30 carbine) with me when they were 5, with safety being first. Nowadays (ages 11&12) one's still very interested, the other one not so much, but guns aren't the exciting forbideen mysterious thing that can get kids into trouble. The gun cabinet is locked not so much for the same of my kids, but for the sake of their friends.

Only one (the handgun I keep in the bedroom) is kept loaded (but no round chambered), but it's in a hidden compartment in a piece of furniture (I'm being deliberately vague here) with an equally well hidden (but easily operated) latch. I don't think the kids know where it is, or where the other gun cabinet key is, but being kids (and having been 12 once myself/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif) it wouldn't surprise me at all if they do..... but even if so, they know better than to mess around with it.

-Dana

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country is doing to you.

 

FIMudCJ : If your rifle is bolt action and it has bottom fed clip my favorite lock is cable lock thru bottom and out receveir and locked this way you can leave bolt and rifle together. This works on pump shotguns also. And when I have my handgun by bed I do not keep clip in it. That way if you are not totaly awake when you are scared of some sound you cant do something to fast and,[well maybe your wife had to pee]. And always take care of it in morning before work. Jeff

 

I agree with not hiding the guns from your kids, but DO keep them secured. I was cleaning my .45 (HK USP...cool gun!) in front of my stepdaughter (she was 6 at the time) and she wanted to know what I was doing. I showed her the pistol, talked to her about not touching it, showed her where I was oiling the slide etc. After that, she could care less about touching guns because the mistery was gone. She will go shooting this fall (air rifle, then .22, and I didn't even think of my .30 carbine!) and she will be safe around them. Mostly because her first intro to guns was "Dad's workin' on somethin'" NOT "Hey Kelly...look what I found under the bed"!
BTW, a good home storage device is one of those electronic touch pad type lock boxes ( Mossberg makes one...someone else does as well). Your pistol is completely secure from unwanted hands but it is close by (mine is mounted to the bed frame) and can be left loaded with kids in the house.
Keep 'em safe!!!

Mike H.
1983 CJ-7 Laredo
2000 Durango SLT
1983 Dodge Ram (2wd)
I can't go to work today...the voices said "Stay home and clean your guns!"

 

I think the best lesson I learned from my dad when I started hunting (my god 14 years ago!!!) was:

"Just remember, when you fire that gun the bullet has already hit the target before your ears hear the bang and there's no taking it back. So just know what you're shooting at."

Well, I know now that that isn't always the case, but that was the single biggest thing that had an impact on me regarding gun safety. I am extreemly aware of where my gun is pointed and at what.

I guess the bottom line is if your kids understand they are tools and not toys, they'll be safe because they want to be, not because you want them to be.

55 M38A1 40% Complete

 

I can't really get the rifle more secure from where it is, it isn't clip fed, the magisine is a small tube under the barrel and is loaded from the muzzle back.

You said that the best handgun is one I'm comfortable with, well... How do I know if I'm comfortable with it? What should I look for. Obviously its different for everybody, but what are the things to think about...

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

First go with freinds and shoot there handguns. Some will have single action only semi-auto,which include 1911 45acps[my favorite],which are made in smaller calibers.My favorite manufacturer is Kimber. 1911s are meant to be carried cocked and locked. which means round chambered and on safe, this style of gun has addtional saftey built into handle which has to be compressed to fire. single action means if you have cycled round to chamber and then safley lowered hammer you cannot pull trigger to fire you must cock hammer first.
Then there is single action double action, on these after you cycle round to chamber it is ready to fire same as single action only except you can decock[by switch on gun or manually] and after hammer is down you can pull trigger which cocks hammer to fire. Trigger pull in double action is much longer in order to cock hammer.
Then there is double action only which means after you cycle slide, hammer automatically drops to lowered position.And must use long trigger pull to fire round. Many of this style do not have saftey levers on them as the trigger pull is long and deliberate.
Remember pistols and revolvers both come in single action only or single-double action or double action only.
Many people are more comfortable with revolvers for first handgun. as they are simpler to use and clean.Besides every body has at least one 44mag. And you can shoot 44 specials in this to reduce recoil. Jeff

 

I have several handguns, carbines, and shotguns at home with kids. Each weapon has a Masterlock trigger lock that would be very difficult to remove. I do have one lever action .44 mag carbine that I have removed the bolt and stored in a different part of the house. The handguns are also locked up in a metal tool box that I use as a shooting box. I took both of my kids out when they were about 11 and taught them how to fire and respect all weapons. My oldest daughter (16) is a great shot but only likes to use my .22 and thinks Australian gun control is great. My 14 year old son likes to shoot and believes gun control is hitting your target with the first shot.

I had him on the range one day when he was 12, he was shooting a .22 carbine while I used the .44. He want to try the .44 so I said ok. That thing rocked him back from the bench rest, I thought he learned his leason and would want the .22 back, instead he asked if he shoot a box of ammo? It's now his favorite next to my .30 carbine. Last fall we were shooting shotguns, he a 20 guage and I was using a 12, and he asked if he could try the 12. Well, after 3 rounds of 3" magnum slugs he gave it back to me and said "I think I'll stick with the 20, that thing kicks!" He has never asked to use it again.

If you want a handgun, I would recommend a revolver (.38 Speacial or better) for a casual shooter. An auto (.40 S&W or better, 9mm is marginal)is good if you practice often. The revolver usually has better intrinsic aim, if you have a miss fire all you need to do is pull the trigger for the next round instead of racking the slide to eject the bad round, you don't have to wonder if you chambered a round when you inserted the mag as you squeeze the trigger at a bad guy, nor do you have to remember to take the safety off in the heat of a moment. The downside is that military autos are designed to work in dirty conditions where revolver may not and the revolver usually has only 5 to 6 rounds in the weapon. Autos can carry lots of ammo and usually are quicker to reload. By the same token, if I need more than 5 rounds, I was very out numbered or I should have spent more time on the range.

I recently saw two young guys on the range with Berretta 9MM's (Gov. type) shooting at the old Dillinger type targets at the 7 meter line. The targets after 50 rounds looked like a bad day with a shotgun. Only about 7 rounds hit kill zones, all the rest were scattered around the edges. They gave me some funny looks when I brought my targets back from the 15 meter mark, I had 15 rounds from my S&W Model 60 (.38 Special with 2" barrel, 5 shot) all within 3 inches of the bullseye. They were shaking their heads when they say the next target with 10 rounds of rapid fire all within 6" of the 10 ring. I agreed with them, I needed more practice, the farthest round was twice as far from the 10 ring as it should have been.

What ever weapon you decide on, PRACTICE OFTEN!

Personal carry choises: Conceled: S&W Model 60 Cheif's Special (.38, 2 " barrel, 5 rounds 125gr Nylock hollow points, light, small but marginal)
Open carry: Ruger Speed Six .357 Magnum, 2 3/4" barrel, 6 rounds of 158gr hollow points (light & powerfull, but kicks like a mule, can also be used for conceled carry)
Home defense: .30 carbine with 30 round clip with 110gr hollow point ammo - simple design, short overall length, makes a great club if they try to grab the barrel

Karl

 

I like the .30 carbine too for home defense..... almost as handy as a pistol, but much easier to be accurate and packs more punch than most pistols. Unfortunately, it's banned in many of the stupider states. Also, the 30 round mag only adds to the "evil assault rifle" look..... for that reason, I have a couple of 5 round mags for mine-- good idea to chuck the 30 and swap in the 5 before the cops show up. /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

-Dana

I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!

 

Unfortunately I'm the only person in the state that I personally know to have a firearm... ONE of my friends has an arsenal <sp> but he's not in good favor with me BECAUSE of the guns...

Short story. He brings a rifle and two handguns to our appt a year ago. We'd invited him down from Savanah since we had the room and he went to school with us. His first load of bags was the rifle sling and handgun case. All three weapons had full clips of soft or hollow-point ammo. The rifle was an AR-12 .223 with a full 15rounds and another 4 full clips standing by. I wouldn't have had a problem with this, except he never told us he was bringing them! My girlfriend threw a fit when I went into the kitchen and said "Hon, I swear I didn't know, but he brought guns. They're safe, and I'll make sure he stays away from you with them." She almost flipped right there, but I convinced her that they were better in the house than in his car...
So because of that and its a 3 hour drive on a good day to see him, I haven't shot a handgun ever again, and have only shot bolt action .22's... I guess I'm getting in over my head. I'm comfortable with it, yet still intimidated by it. I guess I'm just not ready for anything more than an heirloom sitting in the closet.

Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

I'm a little jealous of CJDave, Jeepchick shoots a gun, I can barely get my bride to handle one. This string of threads reminds me a quote by Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC Ret., "A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44".

 

Edward-

Have patience. When I married my wife, she feared and disliked guns.

I got her to go shooting (.22 rifle only for starters) and began by giving her a calm, comprehensive gun safety lecture. Then some instruction on basics (sight picture, trigger squeeze, etc. etc.). And I made damn sure the target (a tin can) was well within her range and was gonna dance when she hit it.

Like most people who shoot for the first time and do well at hitting the target and making it dance, she loved it. Gradually, she moved up to a .22 target pistol, then a .38 stoked with light loads, then my .45 ACP, then my .45 Long Colt, then a .44 magnum, and a 12 gauge Remington 870 too, on clay pigeons.

She now has a carry permit and a .357 with a trigger I reworked for her. She can hit what she wants to at any practical range. And she knows under what circumstances she could justifiably off an assailant, intruder or what-have-you.

Pity the poor fool who tries to mess with her when she's packin', or anytime she's at home 'cause he will come out of it with at least four little holes in the middle of his chest and four great big holes in his back.

45-auto
Bone stock '81 CJ7.

A man with a gun is a citizen...a man without a gun is a subject.

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Edward.....when JPCK and I met several years ago, she had this nice Rossi with some special engraving on it and all, but she never liked to shoot it much. When I picked it up for the first time I understood why.... It was the most "unfriendly" revolver I had ever held. Every corner was sharp on that thing....the grips, the hammer, everything. So I spent some time with some fine emory paper and did the whole works....the grips, the trigger, the edges of the frame, and the hammer of course. After that it felt like silk, and she liked to shoot it a lot more. It helps to get just the right "FIT" on handguns, especially where chicks are concerned./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
Moonguy before coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif....after coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 

I put a set of aftermarket replacement grips on the wifes' Rossi, a big improvement.

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Jeepchick has very small hands, so the minumum grip size is what she has to have. That part of it seems to fit pretty good. She can barely hang on to my 357 with the grip it has./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Moonguy before coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif....after coffee /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

 

The Pachmayer rounded-butt grips are smaller than the factory grips on her Model 85, she now has much better control while shooting, (she's small handed, also).