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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Be as I am from Canada and live with much stricter gun control laws I felt that I had to add to this. You should want to lock up your guns. It make them harder to steal. If your guns do not have a trigger lock and are not stored in a locked cabinet, they make an easy target for someone looking to steal a gun. Also, if you buy a gun safe, as opposed to a gun cabinet, your guns will be protected in the event of a fire. While the government wants you to lock them up for safety, you should want to lock them up to protect you investment.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

"I have a nice in ground gun safe" by my choice I put them in there, but I do not need a draft dodging, womanizing, liar passing more laws to tell me what choices to make in life. or better yet limit the choices I am free to make now.

http://www.geocities.com/austnjpr/
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

I would have no problems with trigger locks or any other type of lock, as long as it doesn't apply to my concealed carry permit or apply to carrying the gun in my vehicle, etc. I think it's a great idea, especially given the events of the past few days. A SIX year old with a loaded gun? 5 shot in MI?

Wanna know what I'm afraid of? NO GUNS AT ALL! How do you like that? I doubt it will happen very soon, but if little kids keep taking guns to school then I think eventually they'll do what's been done in Canada. I think up in Canada it's nearly impossible to have a gun. I've seen that NRA commercial a couple of times where they compare the situation in Canada to what might happen here. It's almost scared me enough to join the NRA just so that I can protect myself. They've made it illegal to carry a firearm and there are harsh penalties, but then the crooks have lots of firearms and citizens can't defend their property. I think this is extreme.

The right to bear arms is undoubtedly one of the founding principals of this nation. What happens next? In my opinion, if you take that right away, you might as well throw away the whole constitution. Most of it doesn't apply today anyway, it's too broad and too subject to interpretation of the times. If you interpret it to allow the government to regulate our firearms, then you could interpret freedom of speech in the same manner. Who is going to stop the bureacrats up in DC? We can't. They don't represent us as individuals anymore. They get with the PACs and foreign interest groups and vote on laws that we don't even hear about in the news. They don't poll us on those issues, they just vote. And their vote might now even represent their constituency in the very least. These guys vote whatever way they feel they should and sometimes that goes against the very platform that they won election on!!

Pisses me off...

I'm running for governor.. hehe..

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Don't you ever think that they will be happy with just trigger locks. Just a nother proven step to take away all your guns . You watch you guys in cal. land
Are going to get hit and hit hard to see if they can shove it down your neck.
If they can get it done they will start on the rest of us or should I say the
U.S.
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The right to bear arms is undoubtedly one of the founding principals of this nation. What happens next? In my opinion, if you take that right away, you might as well throw away the whole constitution. Most of it doesn't apply today anyway, it's too broad and too subject to interpretation of the times. If you interpret it to allow the government to regulate our firearms, then you could interpret freedom of speech in the same manner. Who is going to stop the bureacrats up in DC? We can't
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No disrespect[sp] But the constitution is way way clear. It is as clear as air.
The constitution holds no new to the world laws. Some of these where laws
taken from I think old English laws from way back. But also if you read
any thoughts of Ben Franklan,Jefferson and others it is very clear of the law
they where thinging of. Also they knew and wished the people to be armed with the state of art guns... They wanted you to have the same right to own the same
arm as your standing army.I know they did not want a standing army and I guess
they missed the mark there but the army could not be used agins the people like it was at Waco Tx. I know The news people act like only Nuts worry about
Waco and Ruby rige( Boy its had to stay on a tear with no spell check/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif)
But that was some big steps of the Gov. aginst the people unlike layed out by your constitution.
AND OBTW
The house that gun came out of was a KNOW DRUG HOUSE RATS NEST and nothing was
done about it and the gun was stolen. SO THAT tells me that your Gov. will not do anything about the scum dirt crooks and dope bag a$$ holes but you work
your whole life joblow guy they want to shoot you in the street.
Its sad but with freedom comes risk. What to drive a small car for gas mileage
take your chance with the SUV want to drive a Jeep off road take your chance for
rolling off a cliff. Any freedom comes with risk.
Could we have saved this one little girl . YES they could of clean out the scum
bags before it got this far.
If you read this far sorry for the rant and the spelling.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

I believe the best gun control is education. I brought up 4 children with fire arms in the house and never once locked up my guns instead I took them out shooting with me and demonstaited to each of them just how much damage a gun could do.Kids are smart and even at a young age realize that if a bullet can demolish say a 2x6 or penetrait a couple of 2x6s nailed together it would do a great deal of damage to a human body. I also used other things mostly what ever each chid thought was much harder than a human body
 

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Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Look at all those misguided gullible people who bought into the government and media lies about guns. 62% of people who responded (approx. 2029 people) said they wanted stricter gun laws. What they don't realize is that the kid that did that school shooting already broke the law (isn't there an underage law thing too, where you can't have a handgun if you're under a certain age? I'd say 6 years old is a bit under age). I've been hearing that they want "gun free buffer zones" within a certain distance of schools. It's already illegal here in MI to have a gun on school property so what would that have added in protection? Trigger locks or safes are a very good idea if there are young people around or other people who might want to use your gun. But it shouldn't be mandatory if you carry one around (I still maintain that concealed carry should be legal for anyone who doesn't have a criminal record). What are you going to tell the burglar, if you have one? "Hang on a second so I can unlock my weapon so I can shoot you as you're attacking me"??? My version of gun control is keep both hands on the gun... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif How much do you want to bet that if the kid had been killed in a car accident nothing would have been said about it? How about another weapon other than a gun? A knife for example if used to kill that girl, would have gotten virtually no attention. Guns are the chosen target of the media now, so that they can have an easier time eliminating public ownership...

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Even Bush is smart enuff that when the news asked him about trigger locks
he ask what good would they be . Would we have our gunlock police go house
to house and ask may I see your trigger locks please.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

gregg tanner wrote:
In reply to:

But the constitution is way way clear. It is as clear as air.
The constitution holds no new to the world laws. Some of these where laws
taken from I think old English laws from way back.
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That's my point, the constitution was formed bearing in mind the OLD LAWS from England and Western Europe. The founding fathers took the ideas they used to form the constitution from their experiences in the Old World and modified them to fit what they thought would be "perfect" or as near as possible to perfect. English Common Law Doctrine is 5 or 6 HUDNRED years old. They were still fighting with spears and swords back then. 225 years ago when they made the constitution, the founding fathers could never have envisioned a MAC-10 or AK47 assault rifle. Can you envision the instant death laser you'll have in the next 25 years. NOPE. The constitution wasn't written with today in mind. BUT IT WAS. The founding fathers made the constitution in such a fashion that it CAN BE INTERPRETED and applied according to the times. It's open to interpretation. You have the right to bear ARMS. Not "guns" or "grenades" or "knives" or "lasers". ARMS. The right to have them is there, in any form or fashion.

Unfortunately, as I pointed out, those guys could never have envisioned how we would twist the constitution.
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In reply to:

But also if you read
any thoughts of Ben Franklan,Jefferson and others it is very clear of the law
they where thinging of. Also they knew and wished the people to be armed with the state of art guns... They wanted you to have the same right to own the same
arm as your standing army.I know they did not want a standing army and I guess
they missed the mark there but the army could not be used agins the people like it was at Waco Tx.
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What was state of the art then? Handle filled black powder muzzle loading rifles? What's that got to do with laws that can handle the diverse selection of guns that we have today? And the fact that any SIX year old can get their hands on one. When I lived in MIami (which was most of my life) I knew at an early age that if I could get $30 together, I could buy a 9 MM stolen weapon with no numbers. I knew where to get it, how much it would cost and how to operate it. If I wanted to do that, I could have.

There was no "army" in the pre-revolution days. At least not in the beginning. The soldiers were land owners and their sons who had an interest in protecting their property and joined a "militia", which is a army made up of the citizens used for a specific reason, in that case to defend their land against the control of the English Monarchy. "Militias" if you recall from recent history have become ultra-violent militant groups that preach that the constitution should be revamped to handle the type of government regulation that we see today due to the interpretation of the constitution that we've been speaking about. Not to mention the amount of corruption that's occured because of the liberal intrepetation of our constitution. (The word liberal is not used here as a political designation!!). They are violent because they can see no other way to affect change. Can you? What happens when you write your Senator? Unless an overwhelming majority write the same thing to the same guy, you'll get a form letter thanking you for your concern. And even IF an overwhelming majority send the same letter to the same guy, he STILL might not vote that way. You can't force him to vote that way, you probably won't even know how he votes unless you really do some digging. Then what? Vote's over, too late. You can't remedy that. You can get rid of the representative in the next election, but you can't get rid of his vote.
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In reply to:

But that was some big steps of the Gov. aginst the people unlike layed out by your constitution.
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I bet the FBI, ATF and Attorney General's office might disagree with you there. What other big steps have we seen lately? Gas taxation at an all time high? You wanna tax me for being a smoker? Or driving a car from the 60's with no emission requirement? You wanna tax me for moving into a new state? What the hell is an impact fee?

Remember, "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION"? It's what started the revolution. WHo's representing you? ARE THEY REALLY REPRESENTING YOU? REALLY? or do they just say the things you like to hear? When they get to Washington do they vote for that gas tax increase so they can boost government spending? HELL YES THEY DO. Did the statesman that signed the constitution get paid? NO WAY. They were statesman who wanted to represent their country, free of charge. Intelligent men, scholars, thinking men. Not just guys with a nice smile and the ability to kiss the right PAC's ass to get more money to get reelected for a 7th term and then vote as their told.

WAKE UP MAN!! It is time for another revolution.
I'll start it too. As long as this constitution or any part of governs my existance in this country, I'M NOT GOING TO LET THEM TAKE AWAY FREE SPEECH, FREEDOM OF RELIGION OR MY GUNS!!! And if they try to, they'll have to get past the gun in my hand.

If that's radical, then I'm radical. But please, if you give an inch, they'll take a mile. The constitution gave FEET, not inches and they've take KILOMETERS, not Miles.. you know what I mean.. they've widened the gap between what was SUPPOSED to be and what IS.

It's BS..

But that's just my $.02.

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 

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Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

No [censored] it's extreme!/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif
The NFA(http://www.nfa.ca)(Our version of the NRA) is fighting tooth & nail to stop any further degredation of our rights and is also fighting to fix/replace what is already in place with something better.
Though, when I hear the guys / gals at rec.guns dicussing whats the best concealed carry handgun, whats the best home-defense shotgun, etc; I see what our laws are like and I get this sudden urge to emigrate to the USA.

--Drew
83 S10 Ext Cab
/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
 

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Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Food for thought... I think the information on this site will prove to be useful when dealing with the anti-rights crowd.

http://www.gunlaws.com/politicallycorrect.htm

I believe that 80% or the population does not understand this issue, it's up to us to educate them.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif Unfortunately, /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif we need to be prepared to meet and beat the anti-rights movement at their own game.

Don't get mad /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif, get even /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif,

Jeeper2
'86 CJ7/258/HEI/TF999/Dana44
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Great article, it's all true.

Bottom line is, do you want to get rid of guns, or the constitution? Take your pick, they go together.

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

The problem is that most people are be lead around by the nose, the media is feeding us what they want us to hear, the government is feeding the media. Get the picture! A good example is gun violence, a kid gets clubbed to death with a stick by 5 other kids do you hear about it? Not unless it happened in your backyard, but a punk drug dealing thug gets shot in a back ally in brooklyn and it is all over the news, all around the country....Why is this? because the need to scare the living sh*t out of us, how else will the get compliance? make the majoraty scared and the non-majoraty will have no choice but to follow. This is not only happening with guns but other forms that the government sees to protect us from. IE the internet. This is a medium that puts the average Joe on the same field as a newspaper writer or radio talk show host, I can reach millions with my views and no one can stop me, right? well that will change soon because once again the media is scaring Joe public with all the talk of hackers and people stealing your credit cards, stealing your identity, turning off your lights while your eating dinner. People dont bother to educate themselves before the buy in to what their televisions says to them. The sad thing is , we who try and think for ourselves will be labeled as radicals and treated justly by the masses of sheep following the lost hearder.

http://www.geocities.com/austnjpr/
 

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Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Guns are to kill. No one said they were to just hunt with. They are there to protect us and our rights. In the late 80's our militias
were stolen from us by the feds. The organization of militias and the right to bear arms is our right. I have been a member of the
military for 22 yrs and a member of the local law enforcement for the past 14 yrs. Nothing is perfect but we need to defend our rights.
Did you know that the swiss keep their military weapons at home with them? No more laws, enforcement and education is what
we need
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

http://www.sixguns.com/bunkhouse.html
First part of this is good reading BUT page down key hit it about 5 to 6 timesand you will come to a new relese on the Waco killing. there is allot of new things that been brought to light even our own army was on hand.

Carl sorry I think I just misread your writeings as I see you have a good handle on the constitution. And yes they did not have a standing army then
but I don't know how you could get around it now.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

In reply to:

AustnJpr
Why is this? because the need to scare the living sh*t out of us, how else will the get compliance? make the majoraty scared and the non-majoraty will have no choice but to follow. This is not only happening with guns but other forms that the government sees to protect us from. IE the internet.
BINGO!! You hit it on the head. None of it is "constitutional", but since they subvert the constitution by manipulation, it can't be judged anyway. That's why the constitution is either null in it's entirety or supreme in the same manner.

The government is taking steps for "self-preservation" really. The exact preservation that they want to take from us. Why? We talk, we listen, we revolt against suppression. If we did revolt, the president, senators and most of the authority figures would be out of their multi million dollar jobs.

In reply to:

The sad thing is , we who try and think for ourselves will be labeled as radicals and treated justly by the masses of sheep following the lost hearder.
Yup, I've been quietly advocating the re-writing of the constitution to fit our times. Lots of folks have called me crazy and some get very pissed off because I go against the status-quo that Dan Rather spoon feeds them. But I'm pissed myself. They want to take my guns? My right to be satanic (I'm not, but still), my right to say what I want to whomever will listen, my right to innovate.

What did Timothy Leary say in the 70's? QUESTION AUTHORITY. You friggin better question your President, your senator, your reps, your boss, the local sheriff, whoever! Why? If you don't, they'll pull the whool right out from under you and you'll be so brainwashed that you'll beg them to do it all over again!

I love this country. It's the best country in the world. I do think that we could learn a few things from the very countries we fled 200 years ago. Those Europeans have been doing this stuff for thousands of years, they have the experience in "society" as a whole. We are like babies in history in this "america" and we think we know it all. How wrong we are!! But no one will listen. It's so cozy and people hate change. A revolution would be so drastic as to rip this country apart. We are so far behind. Revolution is good! It ushers in change and innovation and broadens the thought process. I'm not talking about VIOLENT revolution, though it'd most certainly come to that. Just quiet, peaceful revolution of the fundamentals that this country is based on. We update our history books, our repair manuals, our technology to fit the times, why not our foundation? Gun control stops all that, it also stops us from doing anything about it in the future.

Thank God I bought a Jeep. If something were to go down, at least I could head for the hills, right?! hehe..

Carl, Tampa, FL, 74 CJ-5
If a Jeep can't take you there, Think twice about going..
 

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Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Carl

Hell of a piece man, well put, and a nice knowledge of the Consitiution. We had it driven home in school as well.

There is only 1 shooting case I can think of where a guy obtained his gun legally, the rest were illegal. What does that tell you? That if you outlaw guns, this will not stop, only the outlaws will have guns. Like you've never heard that one. I saw the NRA piece on TV as well, real awakening. Up here in Maine everyone has a gun, hell, we used to bring them to school for show and tell (no joke). We'd check them at the front office and check them out for the class, then return them when done. At the end of the day we'd get them on the way to the bus. I won't say what school but it was under 20 years ago. Now a guy in the same school (with the same principal and superintendent) has been expelled FOR LIFE for having a paint gun in his car on school grounds. He was appealing when we left, so I haven't heard the outcome.

I am a State Safety Instructor for firearms, archery, and ATV's, and guess which one has more injuries and fatalities? Yep, the ATV's. How about automobiles? The reason we don't hear about them is they have become so commonplace.

Gun locks are not the answer. The trigger guard ones can easily be removed by sawing off the guard, and the barrel type can be removed by cutting the cable. Both are easy methods to getting the guns to function. Storage lockers? Yep, they're functional and work as a deterrent. An even more effective deterrent is teaching proper handling and being a good parent. Put the combination together and it's unbeatable. Should anything be mandatory? No, it's pointless. There are enough laws on the books now, if they were just enforced properly the "problem" would be reduced significantly (there is no "zero" in the statistics world, right CJDave?)

I won't give up my guns, if that means one more "criminal" in the world, so be it.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Off topic \"Gun Control\"

Do you suppose a drug dealing, firearm stealing, crackhead parent living in a "flophouse" (re: 6 yr old murder) will be sure to follow all the laws Clinton proposes to make our world safe? NO. It is STUPID to think the lawbreakers will follow gun laws, plain and simple, my 12 yr old son understands that.
 
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