I am no expert on handguns,,, I just carry one for a living. The 1911 is a great weapon, and I have had several clones. However if you are going to spend the money why not buy a 45 auto sig,,, Similar framing, but with double action and no grip safety??? Just my opinion. Having carried both daily for some time I have found that the Sig is twice the weapon,, But it does not have the historical value or prestigh of a genuine 1911.....

Just my .02 Not trying to talk you out of it, The 1911 is a great gun but there have bee some advancements since it's orignal production.

 

Like Jeff, I don't want to talk you out of the Colt, but be advised that, while they do make a lot of noise, they're not much for putting big holes in targets. Unless it's a really big target. Because of the loosness built in for reliability, the best they can do is throw a lump of lead in the general direction of the target. Where it actually goes is largely a matter of chance.

There were M1911s that were tuned and tightened and fitted with good sights for target use - a buddy on the Air Force Pistol Team had one - that are remarkably accurate, but the regular issue weapon could only be guaranteed to hit a barn if fired from inside the barn.

 

I agree with Jeff and Jim. There are much better weapons both ballistically and in safety. I've had a couple Colts, and while loving them, never wanted to trust my life to them. I'd look at Sig, S&W 40-06, or other modern handguns for safety, reliability and accuracy. I'm not an expert, but for 26 years I studied really hard to determine what made me most secure that I'd go home at the end of a shift.

 

a 1911 is an awesome weapon and everyone should own one...

1) .45 cal
2) vast array of aftermarket parts
3) ability to easily machine for performance
4) they are bad a55

wait, it sounds like a jeep

yes, basically you could look at the 1911 as the jeep of pistols. out of the box it is pretty cabaple and can do some damage, but with a little work you can have one wicked machine. but along with that you probably don't want your jeep as your daily driver if you can help it.

though i am a huge fan of the Sig's as well

and of course there are the kimbers and the para's, and the 1991's which are all pretty good in their own rights. hell, buy em all

hope this was clear as mud

-web

 

I disagree with Jim to a point. Out of the box, most 1911's arn't that accurate. However, with a custom oversized barrel and some minor trigger work, they are the most accurate of any auto. I shot a possible (100-10X) with mine. John Browing knew what he was doing when he disigned it. The military loosened it up to make it more reliable, which dropped accuracy.

Charles Daly makes a clone of the 1911 for around $450. This is the one I would buy for money.

I own 28 semi-auto's. 15 original Hamden High-Standards 22's and 13 1911's in .45acp. By far my favorite gun to shoot is a 5 digit Colt built in 1916 with a custom fitted Kart barrell.

 

Check out the Kimbers! Out of the box, they are equal to some of the best custom shop colts, and cost less. All of these guns are almost identical, just with varying degrees of refinement, just a matter of buying what you can afford. With colt, you buy the gun, and then pay through the teeth to get it customized. With Kimber, you spend a little more for the gun but you don't necisarily need to upgrade it.

 

In reply to:

Check out the Kimbers! Out of the box, they are equal to some of the best custom shop colts, and cost less. All of these guns are almost identical, just with varying degrees of refinement, just a matter of buying what you can afford. With colt, you buy the gun, and then pay through the teeth to get it customized. With Kimber, you spend a little more for the gun but you don't necisarily need to upgrade it.

[/ QUOTE ]

im with you on this one...look at getting a Kimber...i have the Custom Carry model and its about 3 yrs old now and ive pumped about 5-6k rounds thru it and ive never had a stove pipe happen.........i think i bought it new for $670-700.......i carried it alot till i forgot to go get my CCW renued so i have to go take the training coarse again........but look at the kimbers , i think youll like them

later
john

 

If you are looking to buy a Colt BECAUSE it's a Colt, go for it. However, if you are looking for a 1911A1 to shoot and carry, check out Kimber, Para-Ordanance and Springfield Armory. Most of the custom pistolsmiths of my aquaintance prefer them over Colt for custom work because they tend to be of better quality.

I carry a Springfield 1911A1 that has had "a few modifications" (sound familiar? LOL!). I love it, and it is accurate and functions beautifully. I had it built up back when I was into competitive shooting.

It's been noted that 1911A1s aren't that accurate out of the box, and that is relatively true. They need a little work to reach their full potential...like a jeep (again as mentioned before!) If I were going to buy new right now, I'd look hard at the Kimbers. I used to be a Kimber Master Dealer, and they come from the factory with a lot of the bells and whistles I spent good money on for my Springfield. I believe these days you can get one of the more "basic" models for about $600 (been a few years since I had my FFL, and I've been buying more rifles than handguns lately). And even the basic ones have things like a slightly beveled magazine well, skeletonized trigger, commander style hammer and full length guide rod.

Good luck with whichever you decide to go with!

 

Well Finally!!!!!!!
A topic I know a lot about!!!!!!!

I shoot Combat Pistol, and IPSIC, as well as Cowboy action shooting,,, but that’s another story.

Back to the venerable 1911,,, BUY BUY BUY is all I can say.
You can pick up a serviceable Colt or clone for around $350.00 but they will need a little work, work you say,,, Don't let any one kid you all parts for the 1911's and clones are drop in parts, yes there are parts that you need to have a gunsmith do, But that is like has been stated before, those are for target and competition rigs.

For the average Joe ALL parts are drop in. Wilson is probably the largest manufacture of drop in parts and they make them all except for the frame and slide.

Pick up a good 45 and replace the sloppy barrel with a new one and replace the bushing with it you can get degrees of fit on this. Who told you about the "bearings going bad in a 1911?" Better get some one who knows a little about them, there are NO bearings in a 1911, maybe a bushing as in barrel .
The sear pin very rarely breaks, but the sear will wear down as well as the hammer where it meets the sear and then you MAY have a run a way. I have had this happen and it will empty an 8 round mag in a fast NY second.

Believe me that most instances that you will need a pistol for self-defense are with in 3 to 15 feet. The Colt 45 can be very deadly at that range.

I can take the eyes out of a silhouette target with my clone or Colt 45 with a drop in Wilson barrel and Combat commander hammer /trigger setup at 20 feet.

Yes I have some 45's about 8 of them, From a Nelson Ford custom down to an original 1918 Navy issue, (by the way that was my 1st IPSIC pistol), I also have some clones. I would suggest a Springfield Armory 45 for a good average priced and made starter pistol to get into Gov. style 45s.
Kimbers are nice too, but I like the Colts and Springfield’s.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about 45 pistols.

 

Go to a range that rents pistols and try one out. Don't be afraid of the clones, either. Unless you're hung up on the "Colt" name, the clones will do just fine, and be a better value.

Ken Linzmeyer

 

Well, I agrees with most of what the others have said. Handgun owner are like Jeep owners, everyone want something different for different reasons. But it sounds like this is going to be your first handgun? Fit is the most important issue for you. If it's uncomfortable, you won't hit S$*t with it. Grip, report or recoil.
As for the Colt name ..... it's collectable, just by vertue of the name. Dozens of 1911 clones out there, don't be afraid that the're junk. But I stay away from Nornico's, personal opinion is they are junk.
Also there are lots of other sites selling guns. Local pistol range is a good place to look.
I own about 50 hand guns prsently (8 are 1911 types) but if I were only going to own one hand gun .... it would a 357 revolver. Reliable, veristable, accurate, powerful, plentiful and a lot cheaper than a Colt 1911. Rugar model 34N (i think?) single action that shoots 38sp, 357mg and 9mm is my personal favorite.
Also, welcome to handgunning .... it's another sickness like owning Jeeps it cureable only with lots of $$$$$'s.

 

I was thinkin of my Jeep typin this up and was thinkin bearing when I meant bushing. From what I've heard the m1911 is a painfully simple design and doesn't have many problems jamming in situations where others would. I think I deterred myself from the clones cause I thought the quality and look wouldn't be what I wanted......but that was comparing them to WW1 and 2 guns I've seen online. I'm sure one day I'll own one of the real originals but now it sounds like I'll be looking for something in the m1911 clone companies and possibly give it the old style look.

While we're talking about this particular weapon, what are popular upgrades and the advantages of some features over others. I see some come with beavertails on the rear and others not......whats the reason for this? What else is real popular and would be a well worth it kinda mod? Are the lighter triggers really a big deal or is it a look thing? Anyone wanna show me pics of their m1911's with their favorite mods?

This has become a real popular thread......I knew I'd get a response but nothin like this. Thanks a ton guys.

 

my buddy bought a Colt 1991, same as a 1911 but a lil more modrenly made.....shot great, handled great.....

it was a waaay better guns than I have..........

my first gun of choice is the H&K USP 45 Tactical....im getting one once i have a job and more moeny

 

Consider getting a good used Mark IV series 80 or other variant. The Mark IV series 80 has a more sophisticated safety mechanism for the firing pin, but does the gun no harm. If you are only looking for 1911's, it's probably why you are only find guns from way way back. You can do so much with these guns. I used to shoot IPSIC and bullseye with 45's and really like them. You can start out with a good solid used gun and make some upgrades as budget allows. A good pistolsmith will be able to do some of the things you can't easily, like tightening the slide, reaming a barrel bushing, fitting the barrel for a tight lockup, dovetail for sights, etc. These are awesome guns and very reliable. I heard so much bs about this and that breaking and after years of use never had a single part break. That's how Browning got the contract with the military, it was capable of firing thousand of consecutive rounds without jamming or otherwise failing. Partly because the gun was built very loose, partly because its a good simple design. Even the split collet barrel bushing used on late models that so many despise is really a good system for out of the box accuracy and I never had one break. Get yourself a 45ACP and start reloading semiwadcutters.

 

There it is -- for collectability it's an original. I have one that I've been offered way too much for - and going up all the time.
But if it's for lots of shooting, a clone's the best bet.

You might want to consider an original, and a .22 on a .45 frame too - for the shooting part. Some folks scoff at .22's, but Bobby Kennedy can verify they are effective.

Get good with the .22 - then if you need power, you have the skill for the big one.

Check out the ammo called Sniper - heavy LR .22's, -- 60 gr instead of the normal 38 gr. They fly slow, hit hard - supposedly hard enough for a deer -- and they are quiet - sub sonic.

 

In reply to:

I see some come with beavertails on the rear and others not......whats the reason for this?

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The extra large beaver tail is used as a support when firing, and it also gives you a good solid grip point when you fast draw durring stages. You can "pin" the grip safety I have mine pinned. Most guys do this to get a firmer grip or to keep from getting a "miss fire" due to poor grip on pistol.

In reply to:

Are the lighter triggers really a big deal or is it a look thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lighter trigger means a lower pressure to pull the trigger, nothing to do with looks. The lighter the trigger pull the less muzzle movement when you pull the trigger, mostly this can be good with and experianced shooter but can be very unsafe in the hands of a novice.

In reply to:

From what I've heard the m1911 is a painfully simple design and doesn't have many problems jamming in situations where others would.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a very true statement. The 1911 and the 1911A1 are very simple and very easy to work on and maintain.
Jambing on them is very seldom a pistol problem 99.5% of the time it's due to ammo issues.

I might suggest you look under "45 auto pistols" for what you are looking for.
This will include all models and types of the 1911-1911A1 thru the 80 series and 1991 series Colt and clones plus a meriod of other manufactures.

The best mod and 1st in my book on any 1911-1911A1 is to replace the barrel and bushing, then the trigger and hammer sear. This is just me though. Also the 1911 and A1 models along with thier clones can be set up at home with drop in parts for right or left hand shooters.

Take a look here to see what they are like for parts. Colt 45 Auto

 

I just got a new CZ75B and its the same thing as a Colt 1911
Nice gun works well and it only $350

 

The 1911 is the finest combat pistol ever made. Although not the standard military sidearm anymore special forces still use them often and it is the issue weapon of the FBI. For a shooter I would go for a Kimber or Springfield. Better pistol than Colt,but the old Colt's are more collectible if your into that.

 

Knifeboy, look at the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. It's the same pistol as the colt, just without those expensive colt markings. I got mine for about $450, brand new. After shooting that, I sold off my H&K USP Tactical. Nothing like a 1911. Now I'm a confirmed 1911 and wheelgun shooter. I have a Para-Ordnance P16-40 (16 round capacity .40 S&W) 1911 clone, a S&W 629 Classic .44 Mag with a 5.5" barrel, and last but not least, my Springfield Armory Mil Spec .45.

As far as 1911 Accuracy goes, define accuracy. I like to shoot my 1911. Last time we went camping on a friends 60 acre property, I went through approximately 500 rounds of ammo in three days. The only cleaning the pistol received was when I got home. Not a single malfunction, failure to feed, or stovepipe. As far as accuracy, I was shooting 3"-4" groups at 20-25 yards, single handed, without trying too hard. That's pretty damn accurate, considering that the 1911 was originally designed as a defensive sidearm, and was made loose enough to function well even when dirty. I've also shot accurized versions of the 1911. The pistol I shot was a tack driver. It was also very tight, not very tolerant of any dirt or carbon buildup, and finicky about what ammo it used.

Unless you're going to be shooting in bullseye competition, don't sweat accuracy too much. Most pistols are plenty accurate, and you won't notice the difference unles you're a grand master shooter... And I know I'm not. I just like to shoot. When I try, and I'm having an 'on' day, I can make 2" groups at 25 yards with my 1911. If you need more accuracy than that, you brought the wrong gun to the fight. Start busting out the rifles.

Since I like absurdly big calibers (Hence the .44) and I also reload to keep costs down, I've been eyeballing the new S&W .500 magnum revolver. As far as huge wheelguns go that thing is just plain sexy.

 

My dad knew a guy, if I remember correctly his name was Eddie, that was in WWII, France. He was going down a road, saw a US officer lying in the mud - dead. The officer still had his 1911 in his hand, really caked with mud. Eddie relieved him of it, thinking the officer didn't need it anymore. He didn't have time to check it out or clean it up, didn't even know if it was loaded or chambered - they were moving fast. He just stuck it in his belt.
Later on that day they got in a bad position, they were getting overrun. It came down to hand to hand combat.

A big German jumped over a hill right in front of him, Eddie's rifle was empty. The German's must have been too, as he jabbed him with his bayonet - tore Eddie's arm nearly off - I saw the scars as a kid.
He fell back, the German plunged at him again, hitting the same arm. Eddie remembered the .45 in his belt, he pulled out the muddy thing hoping it would work. He shoved in the German's belly and pulled.
It did - nearly blew that German back over the hill.
He brought it home with him -- he'd part with his arm before he'd ever part with that weapon.

Up close like that they have awesome power. And they were designed to work even when very dirty. But all those loose tolerances hurt the accuracy.

I love mine just as it is. Give me a quiet sniper rifle and that 1911 and I'm happy.

 

Nick I've watched this thread for a good while now. It even cost me a lil bit O' cash as Rio Grande and I talked about it for a good bit long distance.

So I'll finally pipe up.

I don't know how much time you have with sidearms......any......any size.........or what you exactly want it for.

But

The 1911 and a BUNCH of the clones are great guns. And I love alot of them. But you need to go shooting to figure out exactly what you want. If you want a 1911 to have one, well fine. End of story. Go get one.

But to be honest alot of people have problems with the recoil if you don't have much time with larger bores. Now I'm not ragging on you at all. It's a known fact.
Beyond that, you need to get what feels good to you. While I love the round count of the double stacks in a 45, my hands just aren't big enough to be able to shoot a gun like that well. So I prefer an 8+1 in this type of gun. But it's all personal preferance. And if I hadn't handled a BUNCH of 1911's I would have had a gun that I wouldn't have been able to shoot for beans in the end.

It's like trying on clothes.

I DO love the 1911 and alot of the clones. I wil tell you the same as I told Jeff.......
the next one I get I haven't bought because of the price tag. And there are better "bargins" to be had.

And last but not least.....
what do you want the gun for?
If it's just to own one......well get one.

If it's to carry.....and it's a first auto cary gun........well I think you'd be better to pick a different one. (like the D/A SIG or GLOCK.....and no I'm not trying to start a whole new aguement) But there is a reason LEA use them. And for the cops on here I'm not trying to step on toes............but most cops aren't "gun" people. (and any of you are free to chime in here) They want the best.....safest....easiest.......most reliabe....accurate guns to be had for the masses. Thats why so many use glock and sig in 9mm and 40 S&W. Great guns.....D/A.....wayyyyyy less recoil than a 45.

So.....not trying to start an arguement but we need to know.....

What have you owned and shot........and what do you want it for?

(history: ........ I love the 1911........love it to death. GREAT GUN!!!! Gawd, how my dad hated it. He said he would have better luck throwing his "HATED" M1 carbine at the chinese in korea than he would have with his 1911

.....and thats a true story from my Dad).....but he did LOVE his garand.

 

Great story

In reply to:

He shoved in the German's belly and pulled.

[/ QUOTE ]
But a 1911 will not fire with it's muzzle pushed up against something.

 

It sure does, just tried it!

Not a belly, but a foam pillow, rubber's all over the place now. Nothing's there to keep the hammer from releasing.

 

The reason I'm lookin for a handgun is just for fun on the weekends. Somethin to do to get away from my apartment and college for a little while and just make some noise and some holes. My only experience with handguns is a .22 Ruger I believe but I've shot a few rifles and a bunch of shotguns. I've got shotgun and riflery merit badges through scouts years ago.

The reason I originally started looking for a 1911 was to have something with some history and nostalgia. I quickly realized though that the old original 1911's aren't cheap by any means and not the greatest gun to bring to the range and just have fun with. There are other cheaper and less valuable guns to do that with. This is where the clones come in. I like the look of the 1911 and its track record. It seems nobody has really had anything bad to say about it. I don't expect to put more than a thousand rounds through it a year, and thats probly a very high estimate. I will shoot one before I go out and drop the cash on one for sure, but right now its the gun I've got in my head all the time and I'd really like to get the "pro's" opinion of it......which I definately seem to have. This wouldn't be to use as a duty weapon when I eventually get hired on as a police officer (and thats probly not in the real soon future). For now I'm just looking for something to have fun with and enjoy on weekends. The widespread availability of parts and accessories for this gun made it tops of my list for close to the same reason I drive a Jeep. Thanks again for all the help and keep it comin if you've got more advice for me.

 

In reply to:

But a 1911 will not fire with it's muzzle pushed up against something.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a some what true statement

Granted if you push the 1911 or 1911A1 up against something solid and pull the trigger, you will get nothing as long as it pushed the slide back 3/16" to unlock the barrel. This jambs the rear of the slide into the hammer. Of course if you were pulling the trigger at the time the barrel was pushed and continued trying to pull the trigger, even as the slide came back forward and locked up, the hammer would NOT fall until you repulled the trigger.

BUT DO NOT TRY THI WITH A LOADED GUN

A co-worker tried this

, He was showing his son just what we are talking about and placed the muzzle of the Colt against his wrist and pulled the trigger

Well needless to say he blew his wrist watch off and a lot of his arm :

What I'm saying is yes if done just right and all things being equal the 1911 will not fire when pressed hard against something

, But we all know not everything IS equal