1. Ya gotta start somewhere.
2. A professional is often dumber than you are...
3. But you're dumb enough to pay him for guessing...
4. Save your money, do it yourself.
5. Finding TDC is easy...
a. Pull the #1 spark plug,
b. Sick you finger in the plug hole.
c. manually rotate the engine using a ratchet on the crankshaft pully bolt.
d. Feel for when pressure is building up on your finger.
e. Line up the the timing marks to 0*.
f. Now the pisiton is at TDC.
6. The pins are moved by the stepper motor...
a. so you've got to watch the stepper motor move the metering pins and
b. unplug the stepper motor at the point you want it to stop.
7. The idle mixture jet... Don't muck with it yet...
8. Have you read over THIS stuff yet?
9. If not... read it!
10. As to the TFI conversion.
a. Don't start this project till you've fully completed the Nutter Bypass.
b. This is simply swapping parts...
c. You get the right parts.
d. You install them on the distributor,
e. and mount a new coil,
f. and install new plug wires,
e. and regap the plugs.
11. That's a very easy upgrade... nothing to really modify...
12. Just new rags for old, so to speak.
13. You CAN do it.
14. Heck, I could do it, and I'm a whole lot dumber than you are..
15. I've just got a few more years under (over?) the belt than you...
16. If you run into a problem... that's what this forum's for...
17. Two heads are better than one!

 

Ok, I have looked through much of the information you recommended. It has helped. I hate to ask the obvious but is cylinder #1 the one closest to the radiator?

I am going to try the bypass in the next few days. I guess I had better buy a timing light also.

Thanks,

Sharps

 

Yes, the cylinder closest to the radiator is cylinder 1.

Then of course, 2-3-4-5-6 with 6 being the cylinder closest to the firewall.

 

Yes. Buy a timing light ...maybe even a tach/dwell (won't need to worry dwell much but the tach is useful).

LEVE pretty much covered it all.
here is another link with good info for Carter BBDd 258 - http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/258bbd/main.htm

You can do this. Both you and your Jeep will be better for it.

 

Successful bypass! I performed the operation this evening and the rat is running great. Much better at curb idle and it stalls less. I think the engine is worn out (142,000 miles) but it runs better now. Very short purple wire to get on under the module, but the rest went according to the instructions. I got on it with the timing light and adjusted to exactly 8 deg. before. Ran good here at the ranch.

I am going to get the TR TFI stuff ordered and attempt it in the next few days.

Thanks Leve,

Sharps

 

Ok ran into a snag after the computerectomy. It ran good last night, idled fine and acceleration seemed to be better. But of course it was warm. I started it this morning before work and it didn't run worth a flip. It cranked ok and ran for a while at around 1100rpm, but after a few minutes began to run rougher and rougher...dropping down to curb idle, finally died. I cranked it back up and the only way it would run was to keep hitting the accelerator. Very rough running and it kept going down to curb idle.

Any guesses what to do now? I assume that once it is warm it will run like it did last night. Maybe the choke is not functioning correctly now?

Any assistance appreciated.

Sharps

 

i seem to remember mine doing that after i nutter'd it..

pull the air cleaner and check for proper choke operation.

stupid question: did you unplug the computer from the stepper motor?

next you would want to play with idle mixture adjustment...

just my .02

 

1. I think you've got a good handle on the problem.
2. Grapehead has good advice..
3. I'd just say Amen!
4. Is the intake manifold pre-heater under the carb working?

 

I did get the stepper motor unplugged, matter of fact I pretty well caught the pins all the way in when I unplugged it. I'll check the manifold heater this evening and make sure it is working, looks like it should have 12 volts between it and ground when started cold. I'll have to hunt up some instructions on choke/idle setting.

thanks,

Sharps

 

Ok, manifold heater has 13 volts going to it, but I forgot to check the amperage to make sure the heater is actually heating.

I re-checked the timing and it was at 9 deg. BTDC, I reset it to 8.

I adjusted the idle screws and it curb idles at about 700 rpm now. It sounds to me like it is missing. And something odd happened while I was messing with the idle. Either the trigger on the timing light is fouled up or the thing is skipping firing #1. It would be flat dark for a moment.

I have new Bosch platinum plugs gapped at .035 right now. Maybe pull and check them? I have the parts for the TR TFI upgrade landing tomorrow, what plug should I use with it? Should I wait to do the TR upgrade until I resolve the missing with the "Nutterization"? As a side light, I am getting a little oil in the air cleaner, I assume that I am getting some pressure past the rings forcing the oil out someplace?

Thanks again for the help,

Sharps

 

I started the jeep ice cold this morning and it looks like the idle problem is fixed. I adjusted the screws last night and it idled ok when started, then dropped to curb idle with a tap on the accelerator. Matter of fact, last night I pushed it up to 3500rpm, I was afraid to go any further on that old engine.

I still have a missing problem. The idle is rough and the exhaust is spitting something black like soot.

Any ideas what to do next?

Thanks,

Sharps

 

In reply to:

exhaust is spitting something black like soot.

[/ QUOTE ]1. Likely it's unburnt fuel.
2. My guess, there's a problem with on cylinder.
3. Did the miss come with the Bypass?
4. It's doubtful as there is little that would cause it,
5. That wasn't there before.
6. The problem may center in:
a. Distributor,
b. Ignition module,
c. Plug wires.
5. Verify the miss at all or varied RPM's.

7. It's gotta be traced down.
8. My guess, in order:
a. Ignition module.
b. Distributor Pick up.

 

Dear LEVE:
Is there a test for my current ignition module or is it a replace to test item? I'll also re-check the wiring on the bypass and make certain I haven't got anything loose. Do you recommend going ahead with the TR TFI replacements? Looks like that might catch a few of the problem areas.

Thanks,

Sharps

 

In reply to:

Dear LEVE

[/ QUOTE ]1. Heck, even my wife isn't so fomal!
2. The ignition module is almost throw away...
a. It can be tested at most automotive parts stores, NAPA, Autozone, etc.
b. I don't trust these tests.. as they're not "real world"
c They don't subject the module to heat/cooling cycles, vibration, etc.
d. At room temp, and in a passive enviroment...they'll pass and then
e. Fail when you put them back in servcie.
f. Quality of the modules vary, but IMHO... cheap is good.
g. I'd buy one, and throw the extra in the parts box.
3. If the problem does narrow down to the pick up assembly...
a. Don't buy the assembly,
b. It's alomst 1/2 the cost of a rebuilt distributor.
c. Pay the extra and get a rebuild distribuor with the assemlby installed.
4. IMHO... it's going to be OK to go to the next Upgrade.
5. It may help, but I'd doubt it, unless the cap, rotor and wires are causing the problem.
6. But you've confirmed that your Jeep will run with the Bypass connected...
7. So, it's time to work out bugs and go on to the next upgrade...

 

Sorry about the formality, LEVE. Way too many years of formal writing. I am a mechanical contractor, but have a lot of formal education. My wife says I am the smartest air conditioner guy around.

I'll see if I can locate another ignition module. Either way I'll install the ignition upgrade parts that I have and maybe between the two of them it will catch the problem. I also bought a set of Autolite plugs to put in at the same time. I put in new Bosch platinums a couple of weeks ago, but there are a bunch archived messages about staying away from them. My local auto parts guy said he never had any luck with them either.

Thanks,

Sharps

 

I changed the ignition module and it made no difference. The old one had brake fluid dripping on it for years. Looked like hell. The new one went in fine but at idle or low rpm's it sounded the same. I then went forward with the TR TFI upgrade. It sounded the same after that. I checked the firing order, etc. I finally took it for a ride and after a while it sounded better. Maybe needed to blow some of the gunk out? Regardless, I am going to put some standard type Autolite plugs gapped at .045 in tomorrow in place of the Bosch platinums that are gapped .035.

If anyone can think of a stone I left unturned I will be happy to check it out.

Thanks all (especially LEVE)

Sharps

 

1. Let's eleminate some stuff from the equation
2. First the timing gear/chain set .
3. You can easily make sure timing gears and timing chains are good,
4. and do not need to be replaced.
5. You don't have to take the front of the engine apart to check,
6. but it's a two man job. So, let's begin.
7. Remove the Distributor cap.
8. Put a ratchet and socket on the crankshaft pulley bolt.
9. Have the 2nd person standing over the distributor looking at the rotor.
10. Start to rotate the engine CW with the ratchet to the timing marks on the pulley.
11. Stop rotation at the 10* BTDC mark.
12. Again, start to rotate the engine CW.
13. Have the 2nd person tell you EXACTLY when the rotor starts to move.
14. Stop the rotation of the crankshaft.
15. Look at the timing marks on the crankshaft pulley.
16. How many degrees did the crankshaft pulley move?
17. If the crankshaft moved more than 5.5 degrees,
18. Replace the timing gears and the timing chain.
19. IMHO, I replace the set at about a 4.5 degrees movement as a preventative measure.
20. Some people may think I'm flippin' nutz to throw away a "perfectly good" gear/chain set...
21. But I'm not. I just believe if it's worn out...
22. Replace it BEFORE it becomes an issue.
23. The number of degrees that the crankshaft pulley moves BEFORE the camshaft transfers the movement to the distributor.
24. This represents the amount of slack in the timing gears or the timing chain.
25. This slack is seen as a time lag by the distributor and,
26. The distributor acts accordingly and
27. The spark to the plug is now delivered at the wrong time.
28. It's best to have the whole mechanics of the timing train nice and tight.
29. At low idle... it can flop around a bit if it's worn.
30. As you can see... it's an easy check.

 

Yep, I can handle that. I'll get it checked out tomorrow, may have to get GoldieLocks to look at the rotor. She'll do it as long as she doesn't have to touch anything.

Thanks again,

Sharps

 

Well I haven't got to check the timing chain/gear yet. I couldn't figure out how to get my hand down past the fan blade and figure out what size the nut is. I'll try to work on it when I get to the house this evening.

I did pull out the Bosch plugs and replace with standard Autolite's gapped at .045, seemed to run much better. I think I still have an intermittent miss, but it is better. I also fooled with the timing slightly by ear.

The bosch plugs had only been in for about 400 miles , but they were black and sooty looking.

I'll see about checking the timing set-up this evening.

Any other insights are welcome.

Sharps

 

In reply to:

. I couldn't figure out how to get my hand down past the fan blade and figure out what size the nut is.

[/ QUOTE ]1. I usually go from underneath... it's often easier.
2. Crankshaft Pulley bolt size on my CJ is 3/4"

In reply to:

I also fooled with the timing slightly by ear

[/ QUOTE ]1. Time by ear is OK...
2. As long as you know what you're doing.
3. If you time for a good idle... it may wack the response.
4. Be very, very wary...
5. Start with a know...
6. Static time at about 6* to 8* BTDC.
7. Leave timing there until you verify the timing chain/gear set and
8. Distributor gearing and shaft.

 

I messed with the thing for a while this evening. The first thing I found is that the carb is putting in tons of gas. I mean a lot. A steady stream out of the little things in the venturis. No matter what I did, lots of gas. I stripped the thing down to the float and it is free. The idle tubes are as clean as can be. Obviously something is hung. Any guess? Do I need a re-build or is this a good excuse to move up to a Webber?

Thanks again,

Sharps

 

My guess is the metering pins aren't far enought in...but,
1. IMHO... buy a used carb,
a. Weber or,
b. MC2100, 2150 and
2. Rebuild it...
3. You'll be money and time ahead!
4. I hope others chime in here also with their ideas...

 

I forgot to mention that I tried to determine if the pins were the problem. The stepper motor came off and the pins appeared to be fully extended out of the motor body into the carb. All the way toward the venturis. I even ran the thing with the motor and pins completely removed and it ran the same.

I dunno, life has gotten complicated.

Jeep won't go.

Sharps

 

LEVE, with the morning light came clearer thinking. I decided not to fight with the old Carter. I ordered the Webber K551 kit from Carbs unlimited. I figured that would be the quickest and least painless way to fix the problem. I saved a website someone listed that had some good pictures of the installation. I'll probably need some help figuring out what vacuum hoses to get rid of.

Thanks,

Sharps

 

1. Getting rid of vacuum hoses is a joy!.
2. It's easy...
3. I got rid of all of 'em...
4. Then ran new hoses to:
a. Distributor to Carb (throttle body in my case!).
b. PVC to Carb.
c. Vapor recover canister to Carb.
5. I've de-activated the EGR, so nothing needed there!
6. It's about as simple as you can get!