Not to start a fight

Them's fightin' wurds, ok putem up, putem up.

To tell ya the truth, I think you can look at it a bunch of ways but the bottom line is it makes not one damn bit of difference why that is. You don't want to start a fight but you sure want to berate. You can say we were persuaded by a pest problem called Fairyboy, but never you mind. We're all gentlemen here correct? Each of whom have the sense to dish and take. But I won't end this with a sly arrogant reply to all things like, "It's a Toy thing." /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

I'll just graciously say good bye and thank you for reading./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Your friend from across the way,

Metal Thrashing Mad /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif
"I'm a madman at the wheel"
N.F.T.
Go Saints!

Re: Not to start a fight (sure....)

Visit my site at the link below. Then, feel free to comment if you think I don't hit the trails in my Toy, as well as spend time on the web.
Maybe we Toy owners are tallented enough to do both?/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

Also, read some of our posts... Lots of good exchange going on about TRAIL modifications, as well as some great discussion on Land Use Issues... You may learn something/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

David
[email protected]
David's 4x4 Page

Re: Not to start a fight (sure....)

I'm glad for the toy boys that things are going so well over there.I like heavy
cast iron and the back ground of the jeeps .
My son has a 87 toy4x4 and it has 260.000 mi on it and runs great, compression
in spect. tran and tranfer case tuck nice up under it for ground clearance.
it is a better truck than I like to admit.
But I do like the old Bronco's and IH to and in the land fight we all got to get
along together becuase thank God we all like off roading./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifBTW/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
Nice to see so many of the toy boy looking around here./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
I know I like looking around over there to./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Re: Not to start a fight (sure....)

Sure I have/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif & I still have an 70 CJ5 parts Jeep at the farm, and misc. other Jeep parts still laying around...

Couldn't stand the wheelbase of the CJ5's on the trail, and by the time I got the Scrambler my Toy was doing everything I needed. If I had gotten a CJ7 earlier though, things may have been different...

Actually, I am looking for another Jeep at the moment as a daily driver. The Toy is being retired to pretty much trail only/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

David
[email protected]
David's 4x4 Page

Re: Not to start a fight (sure....)

Yeah, having built & worked on a few Jeeps too, I guess I like to think I have a little to offer on this board as well.
My main area is suspension building, and that is pretty much universal in application except for a few differences. It all applies/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

David
[email protected]
David's 4x4 Page

Re: Not to get me started!

What a bunch of jeeperish, er...gibberish. Who have you been talking to, or are you just stuck in your own little world self-perpetuating yourself in your own affirmations? Do you read what you're typing? You're saying that all Toy owners will never admit to any problems. And I suppose that is why we drive them? We're in our own little world that is perpetuated by our denial that we are driving junk. That makes a whole lot of non-sense. We drive them because we like them and have found favor in their abilities. Now how ya like that reality? That doesn't sink in does it? You take a nice little fact that we have our board going in a positive direction and turn it into an insult. Get over yourself. You believe jeeps are the be all and the end all, and that is why you cannot see beyond your prejudice. Correct me if I'm wrong...P L E A S E explain my shortcomings.

BTW, next time you start shooting off your mouth, take a look at who you're insulting. If you bother to take a look at the bunch of guys that are contributing on our humble little group you will know that most aren't yuppies. In fact, I can't even recall one person that matches your gross labeling. By the biographies that I have read most are regular guys that enjoy the outdoors and fourwheeling. Nothing wrong with that is there? But in your eyes all you see is misguided fools driving junk. You're a funny man. You remind me of this old man I knew that was so paranoid of everything, he didn't leave his house. All he knew were those prejudices in his little mind. Now you're not like that are you?

I like to vent my anger on the trail, but when I see non-sense like this I just have to respond.

Metal Thrashing Mad /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif
"I'm a madman at the wheel"
N.F.T.
Go Saints!

Re: ATTN: CJDave

Toyotas have problems. The 22r and 22re after 83 had plastic timing chain guides. No biggie-buy the metal backed guides when/if they go out. I say if b/c I know plenty of people with well over 200k miles running on a stock (non-rebuilt) motor. How many Jeeps can you say that about? The 3.0l V6 has a head gasket leak which is covered under warranty by the factory with a new design gasket that takes care of the problem. 4Runner rear electric windows sometimes don't roll down-very minor inconvenience. The beds on 84-88 Toys rust. The front shock mounts will break off on 79-85 Toys. Everything after 85 has IFS-Okay, that's a big one. It's not failure prone, it's just a design flaw for serious wheeling. IFS really stands for Inherently Flawed Suspension :0) Birfield failure is grossly over exaggerated-it just doesn't happen that often. The motors are enemic-I don't break drivetrain components in part b/c of the lack of power. Besides, power is not a problem if you're geared right. Other than that, what else is a common weak point on a Toy?

Moving on to Jeeps, educate me. What fails on a Jeep? If nothing ever fails, why is it that on every hard-core 4 plus trail here in AZ few people choose to run anything that remotely resembles Jeep components (with the exception of the TJs)on their Jeep vehicles? I've run every 4 plus trail here in AZ with several different Toys and we've had zero breakage on any of them (did bend a tie rod, but bent it back by beating it out on a rock). The same cannot be said for those running Jeeps. BTW, the few Jeep parts left in them are usually the ones that break-model 20 rear axles, dana 30 fronts, drivelines galore, etc.

When it comes right down to it, both Toyotas and Jeeps are the best vehicles for hard core 4wheeling. Otherwise you'd see alot of other makes on the trails. You don't. Know why? Size/cost. Most of the others are too big or too costly to upgrade to tackle 4 plus trails. We are lucky. Count your blessings.
Cost analysis between a Jeep and a Toy with a solid axle will reveal that the two are very equal if you don't go nuts with the mods in the Jeep, such as new axles, a 350, etc. Which will hold up better over the long run (on gnarly trails) keeping the drivetrain basically stock with the exception of lockers, r&p, and tcase gears? My money is on (or should I say already in) the Toyota.

So, what's your take on this?
Sean
Ps. I have to hand it to Jeep with the TJ. They did a great job. I'd consider buying one myself if it weren't for the high cost of purchase plus I don't like the front dana 30 and I'd drop 10 grand in one quick. Tj is probably the best stock vehicle ever made to fourwheel. Notice above the postscript I am talking 4 plus level rockcrawling. The Tj (just like anything else) would need some serious work to tackle 4 plus trails/obstacles. In short, "it's not what you buy, it's what you build."

Re: ATTN: CJDave

I just have to add in my $.02 on this brand-bashing thing. It's a waste of time. Plain & simple. Every vehicle has it's flaws. Jeeps are no exception - I know, I've had one or more for nearly 10 years. But, I went to a Toyota for my mud racer strictly to get the lightest, longest vehicle I could find that (1) had a top - my wife's request - and (2) would easily house a Chevy small-block. Does that make me a Yuppie? Now that I have an import? GIVE ME A BREAK! Don't lump me in with the yahoos I see each morning in their Infinitis bounding from lane to lane with no signals, all the while yacking to knowone in particular on their ever-present cell phones. I still know how to twist a hub & turn a wrench - that knowledge didn't just suddenly evaporate when I bought an "Import". So, I suggest you kick off your imported shoes, have a seat on your imported couch, flip on your imported TV & ponder who next you want to call a Yuppie.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?!