just choose a length that will accomodate the longest wheelbase you anticipate using on it and use trig to figure out the height at that distance. you already know the angle of the ramp to the ground. the length is up to you.

79/CJ-7/AMC360/TH400/Q-TRAC/d30/d44/33's/RS9000s/Herculiner

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif Hey! Stop suggesting that he use math to solve the problem! If he can't do the math, his self-esteem will suffer, and then he might shoot up a grade skool. This is obviously a job for the government. In fact, I think they should step in and regulate the ramps, licensing and isuing OSHA guidelines./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.

 

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!! An opportunity to put my newly learned math involving trig to practical use. To find the sine of an angle divide the side opposite the angle by the hypotenuse of the triangle. The hypotenuse is the longest side. This applies to 90 degree triangles only, BTW. OR you can get the sine for the angle by using your trusty TI calculator without having to measure anything.

The sine of your 23 degree angle is .3907

Now the neat thing. What can you do with this number? The portion of your ramp that you drive up is the hypotenuse of the triangle. At whatever point you want to put the tall side that holds up the ramp - the side opposite the 23 degree angle, measure from that point on your ramp, the hypotenuse back to the 23 degree angle. Lets say that measurement is 18 feet. Multiple 18 by the sine - .3907 and find that the ramp needs a 7.0326 foot tall side to hold it up or 7 feet and .3912 inches. A ten foot ramp - the tall side is 3.907 feet tall.

How 'bout that for useful MATH????

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

Darn you, Doug '97 TJ.........

I was feverishly searching the US-Gov.com website for information that might help him on this. I made a list of over 100 sites that might be able to at least give him an idea (for free, the US-Government pays for it, of course) where he could write for a publication or an application form.

You spoiled it by suggesting he could figure it out by himself.

Loose nut behind the wheel
Another right-wing conservative.....
Born and raised in Jeep-Town

 

Very sorry. But must make an admission at this point. After allowing the government to lead me around for about half a century AFTER they tried to teach me trig in high school, I finally figured it out for myself - the practical application, that is. And now, after having done that on my own, I have gotten almost giddy over the revelation that I can think for myself. But it has caused some problems. You are a case in point. Have now made an enemy of you. /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
It is probably good that I am over 60 and therefore will not be as much of a henderance to society as I would have been had I learned to think decades ago.
Something good probably came out of your search though. Did you know that numbers existed that were larger than the total number of appendages on your body? OOPS, now you have learned something about thinking too. Hope it didn't catch you at too early an age.
Many smiling /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif guys.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

Doug '97 TJ,

Since you understand this stuff, I was doing some power phase calculations and need the square root
of -1. Can you help me out here?

I am past 50 and I quit trusting my government when I found out that they had lied to me about that U2
over Russia getting off track on a weather mission.

 

Hey Taz -

Don't know what the square root of negative one is, so I usually just stick a lower case i in it's place.

Works for me!

John

'80 CJ7
'84 CJ7
'76 Scout
NRA Life
Join the NRA!!

 

AW MAN, and all this time I've been using "j".

 

better watch out if the Government finds out we can think and learn they will have to cut back on skool <<<</wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.giffunding.so lets keep the FUN in funding/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

Learn to let go of what does not serve you ,but forces you to serve it

 

List of all imaginary numbers, isn't it???? This really does go way back in my memory, and it may be failing me, but seems like I do remember something about imaginary numbers and that you really could substitute them into equations some way or other and come up with some other kind or a weird result. Could be all wrong on this, however. Don't really have that good a memory of it and have no idea where I would look for answers.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

You mean Gary WASN'T on a weather mission????????????? Here I thought the Russians were the one's doing the lying all this time. You sure????? /wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

Does "ELI THE ICE MAN" ring any bells?

 

ElI the Ice Man???? Have no idea what you are talking about. A 50's wrestler? A mob hit man? The subject of a rock & roll song? Somebody they dug up who was preserved in a glacier for umpty million eons? A silent film star? Inventor of the cotton gin to his former girl friends? Line backer for the Packers? A Packer's fan? Bartender? Gimme a clue. I don't keep up with ice hockey or figure skating. A WWII airplane driver??

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

I thought it might spark the memory of where you ran across the imaginary number calculations.

ELI - voltage leads current in an inductor
ICE - current leads voltage in a capacitor
Not that you would guess that from the letters, E-voltage, I-current, L-inductor, at least C is capacitor.

If you get it right, you can steal power from the electric company. Big factories with a lot of big motors
throw off the watt hour meters which really irritates the electric company so they hit them with an extra
charge if they are not within a specific range. I work with automotive assembly line conveyors and they
use power factor correcting capacitors to get back within range.

I thought you might have run across it in radio if I have the correct meaning of SW and CB in your
profile.

 

Well, you really found me out. Of all the things I don't know, I don''t know the most about electricity and radio. The SW is short wave as you assumed, but it is a reciever for international broadcasts. Not ham or a transmitter of any kind. Just the kind of short wave for listening to world wide - mostly commercial type - radio. "Radio free whatever", preachers from hundredres of miles from the nearest gas station, all kinds of foreign languages, BBC, etc. Most countries have English speaking stations on short wave that can be picked up all over the world. Real neat to listen to what other countries news casters have to say about the U.S.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

In the generating side to over come voltage side of it we have to create VAR's. VAR's are a watt less
power that takes horse power to make and creates heat. At night we are run every thing to the wall
to lower voltage and in the day say summer to add air conditioning we hit the wall to raise voltage.
In the summer then your can work with hot transformers, hot units. hot bearings,warm cooling water
This just to keep it interesting./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
BTW. Talk on what vars are can go on for hours.
What I remember about my studys was the charge the electic Co. put on factories was for the cost of
the power to create VAR's. Like you said if you run unity power factor every bit of that horse power hits
the watt meter.

 

If your post was directed at me, you lost me about "In the generating side..." My expertise with radio - SW for example - is being able to tune in to commercial stations around the world and listening to them (SW reciever built into car radio. - Really a great radio, a Becker Mexico made in Germany. Just for the record, Becker makes a bunch of radios. They name some of their "speciality" radios after the locations of Gran Prix races. Hence the Becker Mexico. Has nothing to do with being made in Mexico. It's the - whatever the gran prix is in Mexico.)
Anyway, back to your post. I have no idea what you are talking about. SW - see above. CB - I can install one, and I can say (but don't anymore because of the joke about it) "10-4 Good Buddy", and I manufacture and sell the CBrack, a good way to install additional electronic equipment in Jeeps. CBracks, BTW, are mechanical - not electrical. I understand mechanical.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

What the hell is an imaginary number? eleventeen? thirty-twelve? Jeez, I hate math.

Marc
Contagious Off-Road

 

Sorry Doug. I was just comitting on what Taz was saying on power useage as on the generating side
of things.
I'm glad you did give some more information on your radio. I was wondering how it receved its mod.name.

 

Marc, an imaginary number is the square root of negative 1, which really doesn't exist. Is usually written as " i " or " j " in an equation.
That should totally confuse you.

Gary

 

Generally speaking math is absolute. IOW, what you see is what you get. 2 and 2 are 4, and there is no "pc" involved. There are ways to determine the reality of other things based on math. Some of those math computations are extremely involved and difficult, BUT it still amounts to using reality to determine what other reality is instead of how someone might "feel about it."
Because math is absolute it does not deal well with NON absolutes even though at some point the absolute must exist "out there somewhere". An example: Take a 1 foot piece of ordinary string. How many times can you cut it in half? Practically speaking it depends on how sharp your sissors are, but we both know that someone has a sharper pair of sissors somewhere. When you get past the sissor question, you get into molecules, and then into atoms and then into whatever makes atoms. Math does not recognize these NON mathmatical things, sissors, atoms etc. so math can aways divide a number by 2 and get half of it and can do that forever.
This example is easy to understand. You can always divide a number by 2, and whatever that number is, regardless of it's size and regardless of our ability to visualize it or make something that big or small, it still exits because we can understand the logic of it. It IS NOT an imaginary number.
Math has established some rules. Some of those rules deal with things that are not real. Can you hold a minus one dollar in your hand? There is no such thing, but it is real easy to understand that you OWE someone a dollar. That is a reality. How do you express it? An IOU? Yep, that will work, but what happens if someone pays you $5 just to see your Jeep, and you want to determine your actual worth? Forget what the Jeep is worth or how you have emptied every pocket on it. Maybe that's why you owe the dollar? You look at the $5 bill and know that you owe $1, but you cannot see the dollar you owe. If you had 5 apples (lst grade math) and gave Suzie 2, you would have 3 left, but there is no negative one dollar there to look at, so the math folks created NEGATIVE numbers, so that we could do some calculations based on things that really did not exist. We do it all the time. We just call it substraction. The NEGATIVE one dollars is not imaginary.
Sometime way back when, rules were established for multiplying numbers together. 5 times 4 is easy enough. But what happens if instead of one dollar you owed one dollar to each of three people. You multiply 1 times 3, right? But since you still owe it, since it was a Negative number to begin with, it remains a negative number so that it still represents what you owe - a positive times a negative equals a negative.
Now to the end the imaginary numbers. We have put a name on a particular type of math computation. If you multiple a number by itself it is called the SQUARE of that number. It is a process that is unique. It only has to do with the number, NOT what the number represents. 5 piles of apples each containing 5 apples IS NOT the square of 5 apples. Square only has to do with numbers AS NUMBERS not what the numbers represent. Look at the number 5. By itself it means NOTHING. "I have 5." "Great! 5 what?" See it doesn't mean anything.
Math folks deal with numbers regardless of what they relate to. Owing 5 dollars and owning 5 Jeeps is the same number, 5. If the math folks can figure out how many more Jeeps you need to own the square of 5, that's easy to do, because they do not deal with the color, CJ, YJ, TJ etc., how to pay for them or modify them, but because they have figured out how to multiply, then we can too.
To get the square of a number, you multiple it by itself. Square root - whatever number multiplied by itself will give you that number. Owe 3 people one dollar each - positive 3 times a negative 1 or positive times negative results in negative. How bout if 3 people owe you a dollar each - negative 1 times the negative 3 which results in a POSITIVE 3 that is what is owed to you, or you could be positive about it and say, "3 people POSITIVELY owe me a dollar each, and one dollar is pretty positive," so positive 3 times positive 1 equals positive 3 When you multiple like signs you always get a POSITIVE number. Makes sense, it's logical it is easy to understand, and it follows specific ABSOLUTE rules, but what number can you multiply by itself that results in a NEGATIVE number. Can't be done. So if you try to determine the square root of a negative number, you come up with something that we don't know what it is. It has been given the name "IMAGINARY", but even imaginary numbers - which we don't know what they are - can be given some boundaries. We only use the square root of -1 because once you figure that out you can figure out the rest. It is easier to work with the square root of -1 than the square root of minus and then a whole bunch of numbers, and if we could figure out the square root of -1, then we could figure out all the rest by simple multiplication. They are still called imaginary numbers. We haven't figured them out yet. If you read all this, it entitles you to an imaginary million.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

Wow Doug, I got lost and I took calculus and diff eq. I got good grades too after that first semester with
the bumbling old man who didn't know what he was doing and I understand and can even apply it. I'm
sorry now that I made the joke about the square root of negative one.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to your explanations and examples but math is not nearly as hard as
you have made it, actually it's quite simple and even fun. I hope you haven't scared off a whole
generation of kids from the math world. Math is a wonderful thing, if you know how to ask the questions
properly and how to solve for the correct answers. It will tell you how to determine if you frame is
straight or whether or not you need a shackle reversal. It will predict why you won't have any brakes
after you put those 47" tires on you Jeep or why it will want to turn right every time you hit a bump with
that 10" lift kit. It will even tell you where in the stroke the stress is greatest on the connecting rods.

Add a little physics and you find out that a 12" clutch isn't any better than and 8", it just lasts longer.
You will also find you won't get any better traction on a hard surface with the 12" wide tires than you
would with ones 3" wide.

Your post reminded me of a story, seems that in this little town, nobody had an education beyond
grammar school. Well, one guy had managed to send his kid to college and was quite proud that he
had done so. To impress a group of his friends, he encouraged the kid to recite something that he had
learned. The kid was a little embarrassed but he thought of the formula for the area of a circle and said,
"pi r squared". His father was a little shocked and disappointed and replied, "Son, everybody knows,
cornbread are square, pie are round."

Negative numbers are simply a way of expressing something with relation to an arbitrary zero point and
an arbitrary positive direction. Should I pick the level of my front yard as the zero point and up as
positive, and I dig a 2' hole in the yard to plant a tree, then I can express the bottom of the hole as a
negative 2'. In dollars, it's easy to have a negative, the government does it all the time. Let us express
assets as positive dollars and debt as negative dollars. If you go to the restaurant and have a cup of
coffee and a piece of pie, when you finish the waitress will bring you your bill. If the bill, with tax, is
$3.17 and you can only find two dollar bills, a nickel and a penny in your pockets, you have a negative
one dollar and eleven cents. Don't forget, the dollar isn't worth anything, we just gave it a value so that
we didn't have to bring in a bushel of corn to trade for the coffee and pie.

For the square of something to have meaning, the units must be the same. A common room exactly
twenty foot on a side has a floor area of 400 square feet. The square only has meaning if both
measurements are in the same units, inches, feet, angstrom units or light years but not if one is in
furlongs and the other is in rods. You cannot multiply five apples by five piles and get a square, you get
apple-piles just like when you multiply the force by the distance to get foot-pounds.

A few fun facts. You can only cut that one foot piece of string in half once. My favorite test question is
what is zero divided by zero, there is only one wrong answer, infinity, it's called indeterminate. One
divided by infinity is DEFINED AS zero so zero times infinity is DEFINED AS one. Anything else divided
by zero is undefined. The largest defined number is a googolplex which is ten to the googol power where
a googol is ten to the one hundredth power or a one followed by one hundred zeros. Don't worry about
imaginary numbers, you'll know when you need them.

I've rambled on long enough here, but I still haven't said anything about the fun part. Prime numbers are
whole numbers with no fractions or decimals, which are not the product of any other whole number other
than itself and one. Some primes are 1,2,3,5,7,11, etc. The questions is, are they in a predictable
sequence or do they appear in a totally random pattern and does the frequency increase or decrease as
the numeric values becomes larger. If you find the answer, let me know, I've been working on it for
years. Of course if I am the one to figure it out, a whole bunch of kids will have to learn to pronounce
my name.

As to the original question, determine how long you want the ramp to be. Multiply the ramp lenth by the
cosine of 23 deg. to deterrmine the run or the distance on the ground, and by the sine of 23 deg. to get
the rise or height at the high end.

Now back to the Jeeps.

 

What I was trying to do - evidently not successfully - was to apply some logic to why certain math rules exist without just saying, "A minus times a plus is a minus". Was also trying to explain that just because you could not see it, touch it or smell it does not in itself make it Imaginary.

Have to disagree a bit with your explanation of square. Tried to copy your quote here, but for some reason can't do a clipboard copy from another post. Help with that would be appreciated too, BTW. Anyway, as I said previously square and square root have to do with numbers only and not what the numbers represent even though they might represent the same thing. Your example of the square feet of a room is a little misleading, IMHO.

Explanation: 10 squared equals 100. 10 feet on each side equal 100 square feet, but what you are doing is squaring the NUMBER only, and it only appears that you are multiplying 10 FEET by 10 FEET because you wind up with 100 square FEET, but the reality is that a "FOOT" is really a number that represents a distance. It is not a thing like an apple. What you are really doing is multiplying (10 times 1) times (10 times 1), each 1 representing a foot which in reality is only another number representing a distance. If you substituted a one foot wooden ruler for that foot and had 10 of them lined up on each side of the room, you would not wind up with 100 one foot square pieces of wood with lines on each side. Additionally a "square foot" does not represent a physical thing. It is a number, a measurement, a 2 dimensional number instead of a 1 demensional or linear number. We have 3 dimensional numbers also - represented as the "cube" of a number. A cube again is not a physical thing. It is a 3 dimensional number. How bout a 4 dimsional number? We can "see" in our mind what a 3 dimensional number looks like - a cube, but what does a 4 dimensional number look like? If we can visualize that, we may well be on the way to solving the square root of -1.

This borders on philosophy and math, but one must realize that math has nothing to do with anything material. Math deals with the relationship of numeric values to each other, and when that relationship is determined, then the results are applied to some physical thing or idea, and that is done based on what the physical thing or idea was when the relationship between the values was originally sought. You cannot divide 10 apples by 5 oranges for example. Not only is that NOT imaginary, it is goofy.

When you get down to the bottom line, all the square root of -1 situation accomplishes is to make an academic mathmatic statement that the possibility exists that there could be things "out there" somewhere that are not explainable by our current methods of math. Of course, if they became explainable, if the square root of -1 really exists, if there is another mathmatic computation that we know nothing about that actually produces a value for the square root of -1, then we would have to create yet another formula that produces the imaginary. Otherwise, we would create the illusion that we already know everything there is to know. The 4th dimension may have to do with time instead of length. If we were able to see with our eyeballs through time, we may very well be able to visualize a 4 dimensional number, and the square root of -1 might be a measurement of time over which a 3 dimensional number is unchanging.

As for the rest of your post - I agree completely and must admit that you stated it more clearly than I did. I was trying to say about the same thing, so please, any of the readers who may have been scared off by my post, please come back. It really is fun - math, that is and extremely useful in everyday life as well as with Jeep innards.

You said a lot in two words - "arbitrary zero". We deal with zeros all the time and think nothing of it, but stop for a moment and visualize in your mind what a zero represents. Again separate the value from the thing. We can visualize zero apples or zero trails to drive on, but try and visualize in your mind just the zero. Probably come up with something like black nothingness contained within some kind of boundaries. Well, that isn't zero. First of all you have "blackness" which is something, not nothing, and secondly you have to compartmentalize the blackness giving it some kind of dimension. Again zero has no dimension. Empty space is not zero because one can travel inside empty space. Some feel that it is impossible for there to even be a zero, because for it to exist automatically makes it non existant. Yep, it's "arbitrary". Zero is exactly opposite other numbers in it's characteristics. Other numbers have to be delt with WITHOUT what they represent being attached during the calculations in order to have usefullness. (2 piles of 3 apples each. 2 times 3 and then add the apples to the answer) Zero on the other hand MUST be associated with something material before it has any usefulness. (2 piles of apples added to zero piles of Jeeps. 2 plus zero piles of Jeeps equal 2 of whatever the 2 represented in the first place) Our arbitrary visualization of zero must be associated with something material that is not in a given space. Zero is really a pretty complicated little item. That's one reason why it took mankind a long time to come up with it. Philosophically it involves disproving a negative. In physics it involves defining nothingness and mathmatically it involves assigning a value to no value.

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site

 

Sorry Doug, but there are square feet and cubic feet. and 10 feet times 10 feet is 100 feet-feet although
we chose to express that as square feet. Cubic feet is feet-feet-feet.

You can also square time:
If you graph the position of an object, you have its position say in feet. The first derivative with respect
to time in seconds gives you the speed in feet/second simply the slope of the line. The second
derivative gives you the acceleration in feet per second per second, the rate of change of the slope of the
line.

The acceleration of gravity in a vacuum is 32 feet per second per second. An object will be falling at the
rate of 32 feet per second at the end of the first second and will have fallen 16 feet. It will be falling at 64
feet per second at the end of the next second and will have fallen 64 feet.

Any time you solve an equation, the units must come out right, it's an easy check to see if you got what
you meant to. Never leave the units out of the the equation. Cancel those in the numerators with those
in the denominator. If you want to know how many seconds in a day, you multiply 24 hr/day by 60
min/hr by 60 sec/min. The hours and the minutes cancel and gives you 86,400 sec/day.

 

okay

Doug '97 TJ
My Web Site