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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is an actual picture of my CJ-8......That I have cut, pasted, and manipulated beyond recognition on my computer that is. Anyways this is what I would like my beloved scrambler to become. The basic concept is to create an open air vehicle that can take 4 people and their gear nearly anywhere in relative comfort with great reliablility and be extremely easy to work on. Here are the proposed specs:

New frame with built in shackle reversal, outboard spring hangers for full size axles
103.5 inch wheelbase is unchanged
Tub from back of drivers door is moved forward to allow rear doors
One piece tilt hood
Bed from last roll bar piece is removable/interchangable depending on need
Tub removable in 15 minutes by one person
4 bucket seats with 5 point harnesses belts on shoulder are retractable
Seats removable in 2 minutes by one person
Guages liquid filled and completely waterproof
Rhino line tub/bed
On board air/welder
Hydraulic winch powered by auxillary small gasoline engine

The engine will be a ford 5.0 with a C4/D300 until I can someday afford an Atlas
Of course it will have all the heavy duty parts D60 front/rear, etc.

I am hampered by the standard issues: lack of funds, lack of time and relative inexperience with metal fabrication. However, hopefully sooner or later those will no longer be issues. I graduate from med school in a couple of weeks and I'm getting a welder for my graduation present. Should'a been a cowboy

Bakes
83 Scrambler
http://www5.ewebcity.com/4x4trails
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The C4 is a pretty stout transmission. And the Atlas is based on the same basic design as the D300. I am suppossing that they would be similar in strength. Stick with the set-up you have. I would however, trim a little off the back. Maybe you want more storage space, but the breakover angles may hurt a bit. But the Jeep looks great. I really like the rear raised doors. Good luck.
Russ

 

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Cool looking concept,
That long tail end will be much cause for concern though. In your proposal of what you were looking to achieve you stated to take 4 people anywhere. That long tail will definitely limit your angle of departure. Put it this way, on really tight steep rock trails, and Im not talking Rubicon, or even some of the Hammer trails, that have or are becoming so stacked with rocks that they are basicly rough highways, Im talking steep rocks, open a new trail type of trail. I have to remove my spare tire from the rear rack, and give in to a center of gravity and mount it on its roof perch above the roll cage where the rear seat would sit. Other wise I either tear it off, drag it across the rocks or it hangs me up in a "no more forward progress" position. That rear overhang on your concept rig is like a balcony and would quickly reveal its design flaw. Ive attached a picture of my YJ traversing a deep trench in soft loamy soil, imagine that same scenario on granite.


Jeff
89 Wrangler
If at first you dont succeed, your replacement will try and try again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That looks pretty snazzy.Heck, leave the back alone!!! thats what makes it a scrambler...All that does is piss off some of the other cj drivers when you can follow them.Beside, that what the winch is for anyway right!!

 

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Nice design, been working on some of my own for the '51 Willys extension (if I can ever get the others running and healthy for any length of time). Instead of building a frame why not use a Scout II frame, which is very close to the Scrambler length. The frames are much stronger and use longer springs for more flex. I have also never seen a rusted out Scout II frame, plenty of bodies, but no frames. If they can handle the power of the 392's (I know of some guys that swapped them in) and a lot more weight (the bodies are HEAVY!), they'd make a decent Scrambler project. I'm going to use one under the '51.

As to the overhang mentioned before, it's a problem inherent to Scramblers. I am against cutting them, if you don't want overhang, lengthen a CJ-7, don't cut down a Scrambler. Why not use rollers for a rear bumper? I plan on doing this, but after everything else is completed. My rear bumper will look like a regular bumper, but it'll be made of sleeved steel so it can roll over objects. The key here is to get it stout enough so it can handle the sharp rocks and sudden drops.

Something I have on mine as well is recessed steps (see pic, behind door), which you could put under the rear doors. Cut a passageway in and reinforce it, I love mine and will be upgrading (longer) when I put the body back on.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7" Lift/33" TSL's/REP8000/RS9000's/IHC Scout II D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
 

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I think you're gonna have problems working out that stubby front end. Looks like you could barely fit a Yugo engine up there. Also doesn't leave room for the footwells to clear the wheelwells. Doesn't look like you left much legroom for the rear passengers. I'll share some of my ideas with you since I'm in construction phase right now and have tossed a lot of ideas around:
Ues longer rear springs and stretch the wheelbase a couple of inches...I'm using the rear springs from a J-truck which relocate the rear axle about 2" further back. Move the wheelhouses back correspondingly. Mount two stock CJ or YJ buckets or a pair of racing seats (18" width is the limit per seat to squeeze between the wheelhouses) for your rear passengers and put the bracketry in the far rear for a fold-n-tumble rear seat 'just in case'. Another idea I toyed with but decided against because of the increase in wheelbase was to remove the wheelhouses and rear corner housings and install CJ/YJ wheelhouses. This would give you a very similar vehicle to the AEV 112" wheelbase TJ conversions. Concerns with high centering backed me away from this route.

 

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I'll throw in my $0.02 - skip the back door openings and have your passengers climb through the front. This will eliminate a bunch of
fabrication and solve the rear wheel-well clearance problem. If you really want to add the back doors, bob the rear end and move the
rear axle back 6". This will give you enough room for additional doors.

BHT
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
In about five or six years I plan on building a expedition type Jeep. The only real Jeep part will be the front clip, but it would also be wider than a stock Jeep. I plan on a turbo Diesel and a 6 or 7 speed manual with the strongest t-case I can find. The axles would either Dana 70 front and 80 or 135 rear or 2 1/2 ton front and rear. I plan on 4 doors but without the sills like Jeeps have so I can wash it out. 120 inch wheelbase water proof every thing (since Diesels can run under water) possible with scuba tanks and regs by the seats just in case. Enclosed I beams for frame rails. Finally I would find a way to fit 150-200 gallon fuel tank. Basically over kill so I can go anywhere (Arctic, rainforest, etc) without worrying about something breaking.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7
WALSTIB/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Kind of just mine would be longer, bigger, wider, stronger, and definately bigger axles and more fuel and more doors. That isn't a bad looking Jeep though and it looks very capable for iceland.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7
WALSTIB/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just to clarify a few things. The bed in back is removable. The theory being that I have a longer/more traditional scrambler bed for daily driving and casual wheelin. If I need to I can take it off or else fab up a shorter one. As far as the nose being too short...it's not. The hood will be shortend but the front of it will remain in the same place. The entire tub will move forward 10" from the rear of the drivers door forward. That will mean I will have to modify the firewall...so be it. In other words, more of the engine will be in the passenger compartment. I am considering CJ-5 style doors in back but I stumbled on the raised rear doors and I like it.
Thanks for the input. Later

Bakes
83 Scrambler
http://www5.ewebcity.com/4x4trails
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would like to say that the design is great. THe thing that really caugt my attention was the winch. I saw a Ford that had and AGR super box hooked to a Honda lawn mower engine in the bed. He had that 12000 lbs. Mile Marker set up with quick releases and front and rear mounts. That is one of the greatest ideas I have ever seen.
I also like keeping the Cj-8 bed. 4 people need a lot of crap.
And finnally, I don't like the one piece front ends . They make the engine super accesible, but you can't put anything on the fenderwells, and the radiator has to be further inward.

Ed

I live, I breath, I Jeep
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Nice idea, but I think you may be selling yourself short. You said you're starting with a new frame. This is where you can really help yourself. You don't want to bob it, so why not simply move the rear wheels back a few inches (you'll have to open the fenderwells for those big meats anyway)? That will solve part of the problem with the rear doors & the overhang in one step. You might also want to move the front axle out just a bit for fender clearance. You'll end up around 110-112", and that's still not radical. And why mess with outboard spring hangers? This is a custom frame. Set it up to work with the 60's, & modify the body mounts to work on the frame. Just my $.02.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I realllly want to keep the 103.5 inch wheelbase. I plan on 35's for daily driving and up to 38's for off road use. I wanted outboard spring hangers up front to increase the stability of the uncut full size axles at speed. I may lose a little articulation but I think the trade-off is worth it. I will get the axles before the frame cause it will be cheaper to make the frame fit the axles than to get 2 custom axles. Again, all input appreciated. Thanks

Bakes
83 Scrambler
http://www5.ewebcity.com/4x4trails
 

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"As far as the nose being too short...it's not. The hood will be shortend but the front of it will remain in the same place. The entire tub will move forward 10" from the rear of the drivers door forward. That will mean I will have to modify the firewall...so be it. In other words, more of the engine will be in the passenger compartment"

If more of the engine is in the passenger compartment (don't forget you need a radiator and fans to cool this beast also) then where the heck are the driver & front passenger going to put there feet? Where are you going to put all of the stuff that's under the dash like the cowl duct and heater?

 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
then where the heck are the driver & front passenger going to put there feet?

Good question. Wish I knew. Maybe I could widen the body a little bit. That is the biggest concern in my mind at this time. Cooling shouldn't be affected since the front clearance will remain the same as stock. As far as the stuff under the dash, it will all be reworked. I'm not too worried about the ducting,etc since it really couldn't get any worse than it is now (scant defrost, and warm air only to my right front foot). I could probably do just as well with a hair dryer and some duct tape. I may try and get an underseat unit that is removable for the summer. One common theme I am trying to stick to is a "modular" type design. I need to be able to quickly and easily remove systems for repair, maint, etc.

Bakes
83 Scrambler
http://www5.ewebcity.com/4x4trails
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Seems like a lot of work...one thing I have learned is usually the more trick things you do the more problems they cause . And usually if you keep things somewhat simple it works out for the best. More power to you, but I think removable beds and shortened hoods might sound better than they would actually turn out. Just my opinion.

BJ
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
For a fire wall you could make one like a van or a unimog or a Hummer has with that hump that they have. You could probably run ducting on the dash for vents. You probably should consider leaving the front the same and strech the middle. I can fit 4 people in my CJ7 with the back seat in but they don't have much room. With moving the fire way and keeping the wheelbase the same your passengers will not have much more room than a regular Jeep. Also the driver and front passenger will have less room. Are you willing to give up that space when not caring passengers in the back?

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7
WALSTIB/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif
 
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