i was totally sold on my auto in the tj-7 prodject, and i do love it in the mud and rocks around here, but the t-18's i had were nice too... I'd go with whichever you want.. maybe my knees just hurt too much for a clutch anymore...it would depend a lot on the gears you want to run.. if it's only a trail rig that never sees mud, run LOW LOW LOW gears with a stick. otherwise...both are nice

~~Elusive~~
it's sort of still a cj thingy....see it at http://www.jeepgod.net

 

Keith, with a flatfender you are very limited to which trans. you can use due to the short wheelbase. Add up the total length of each trans./
adaptor/xfercase and then see how much rear driveshaft length you will have.

Gary

 

Haven't measured the 435 but the th350 and tcase should leave about a 15" rear
driveshaft. That's with the motor moved all the way forward. I've been running this over in my mind awhile and they both have good points. But most of my off-road experence is limited to buggies and bikes. So I thought I'd check it out with the people here. There seems to be alot of experence here. I've seen them both so I know they'll fit but I don't know how well they work on and off road.
Thanks for the reply.
Keith


C-Ya.....................kh

 

I like auto. Post 40,000 /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

Keith, it really comes down to personal preference. I personally run an NV4500 5 sp. I like the compression braking on steep downhills.


Gary

 

Either can be good or bad depending on setup. Can't tell you what will fit and what won't, but if the final overall drive ratio is too high, (rpms too low at hwy speed) that can be a problem with an automatic. With a stick too, but the stick is just inconvenient where the auto might actually get damaged by too few rpms at hwy speed. Auto also has the lack of engine braking problem at low speed.
If the veh is geared too high with a stick shift, then you have to slip the clutch too much on the trail. Another bad idea.
Best, IMO, is LOW, LOW transfer case with an overdrive stick shift and a granny low. Short of both of those, low t/c and granny low, either of those by itself will produce very good off road manners. Something in the neighborhood of 70 to 75 to 1 crawl ratio can be achieved with either the t/c or tranny. Over 100:1 with both. With these kind of low gears crawling is as easy with the stick as it is with the auto, probably easier. Set your hand throttle at about 800 to 1,000 rpms, take your foot off the throttle and just ride and guide even on the roughest of trails, AND enjoy all kinds of engine braking. Step on the clutch to stop, start and change gears. Leave it alone the rest of the time.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
CBrack.com

 

I'll weigh in on the manual side...Autos are fine on some trails, and are easier to drive in certain circumstances. However, if an auto is geared too high, it will burn up, geared to low and you won't be able to stop it with the brakes, and geared in the middle, it will lurch when it no longer faces resistance and will heat up. That said, there have been several occasions when (and I am admitting this only on the condition that no one tells TeamRush or CJDave) my expert engine work has failed me and I have had to push start FarmJeep. With a manual, even if I'm in bufu, I've always got a backup.

Thought in middle of modifications: "Maybe AMC did it right the first time...Naah."

 

good point about stopping.. no one told me that with 4.56 gears and 350lbs of torque that my detroit locked rear end would NOT stop...I'm talking aired down boggers.. if they are on anything other than DRY pavement, they do not stop.. i get them to turn REALLY slow, but they never stop unless i lock in the front hubs....of course this is in low range only, but i have to shift into neutral to stop going down sometimes.. i think a lot of the problem is the cam i have is way too big.. i bought a new one, but it has been sitting on my work bench for 3 weeks......

~~Elusive~~
it's sort of still a cj thingy....see it at http://www.jeepgod.net

 

That's kinda what I've been wondering too. With the 6.68 granny,2.42 lo and
5.38 gears that puts it at about 87 to 1 crawl, right? That would be hard to beat with an auto. But I keep reading about how much better an auto is on the trail and with NO personal experence off road with an automatic,I knew I needed some advice.
Thanks again.
Keith


C-Ya.....................kh

 

A buddy of mine had a chevy small block 350 and a turbo 350 tranny and a dana 18 xfer case in his flatfender. His drive shaft is 10 inches long. He is stuck with the dana 18 and offset diff because a centered output would have created too much drive line angle. The dana 18 rear output is a little lower.

I run a chevy small block, a T-18A granny 4 speed (short input) and a scout dana 300. This combination IS the stongest, SHORTEST, lowest geared, four speed set up you can find. (Once you put it all together the NP435 and 420 are longer with the adapters attached. The dana 20 is the same length as the scout dana 300.) My drive shaft is a lengthy 16 inches, with a CV, about the sortest I would think is reasonable to run.

The debate between autos and manuals will never end. However in a flat fender, the length of the rear driveshaft is the major concern. It is very hard to make an auto fit in a flatfender with a V8, PERIOD. Go with the manual in your flatfender, if you want an auto, buy a CJ 6/7/8 or jeepster.
Just my $0.02.

My name is Ted, and I'm a Jeep-a-holic. /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif
[email]tzeiger@excite.com[/email]

 

I currently run a th400 behind a 350 in my cj-7. A manual tranny is good if you like to down in the water and mud. Sooner or later you are going to fill it and "milkshake" your tranny. An automatic does not take this very well. A manual, you have to worry about the clutch and the linkage. But, the reason I am still running an automatic tranny is the fact that I can drop it and rebuild it, put it back in in an afternoon. And this cost is under $100! for everything. I also run a full size air conditioning condensor and a fan from a v-8 car as my cooler...on top of the rear axle. I also watch the temperature through a water temp guage I intalled in the deep pan on my th400. Th etemperature never gets above 170-180! And thats shifting from 1st to second in town from light to light. I guess I just know more about the automatics...my .02

~~TIM~~

CJ-7 10"lift

 

Ill cast a solid vote for the manual. With a 6.69 1st gear(NP 435) and 4.0:1 T case(Tera Low) and 4.56 R&P, Im running at about 122:1 in low range 1st gear. It makes crawling, and steep climbing almost effortless, on longer loose steep hills I can still dead start in 3rd build speed and maintane about 5 - 7 mph at about 1400 rpms, so I dont have to shift on a steep climb(my version of an automatic). Down hills are also great with low gears and a manual. There are drawbacks though, I missed a shift on an extremely steep hill last summer while loaded heavy for camping, and came very close to going end over end. I love the automatic in my 500 plus HP, Mud Bogger.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
If at first you dont succeed, your replacement will try and try again.

 

I'll vote for the manual. I'm as lazy as the next man, and my daily driver car has an auto (by choice). But when I'm in the rocks or muck, I want to decide what gear I'm in. I can hang out in 1rst as long as I want.... or just shift to 4th. I just think you can work a manual tranny for any situation.

IN2DEEP 78 CJ5 302 FORD T176/D300 35" BFGS

 

I also prefer the manual. Besides, an auto in a Flatfender? That's blaspheme. I know the early ones were 3 on the tree so the stick is there, but it's not the same. Kinda like a lowered jeep in my book. I know, I'm one to talk with all the non-jeep running gear, what can I say...

But seriously, I have run autos and manuals, and I prefer the manuals. Of course, when I was Swamper deep in mud and missed a gear I was wishing for the auto, but that's the only time. I also like the braking and positive feel of the manual, especially on hills.

JEEPN
'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205 twinstick/7"Lift/33"TSL's/IHC D44's 4.10's Lock'd