Welcome to the board!

Those things were rust buckets - I have a '78 that lasted about three midwest winters before the first holes broke through. If there are signs that it's been painted within the last two or three years you must go over it very carefully. Some common problem areas are in the double-thickness panel on the front fenders, forward of the lower door cutout, the body seam below the corners of the tailgate, on the inside of the frame rail at the forward end of the rear axel hump, and where the rear crossmember is attached to the frame rails. There are plenty more, but those are the first to show up.

If the paint is recent it's a bad sign. To check the frame, look closely at the places I mentioned, and at any other place where one piece of steel has been welded on top of another, which is every joint. Look for bulges in the steel. Rust is larger than the steel it came from, so when two lapped pieces rust between them, the rust will push one out. With a pointed body hammer or a welder's chipping hammer whack the bulges - you'll probably see the point go right through the metal.

On body panels repaired rust can be harder to spot if the repairs have been well done, which most aren't. But still you have to look very closely for signs of body filler. A rusty Jeep is still worth something, but a whole lot less than a sound one. Rust repair is an expensive proposition to do right. I've often heard of sellers saying "Just a few small rust spots." Usually they are from the inside out, and the fatally damaged area is ten times as big as what shows on the outside.

As for the modifications he's done, their value depends on the workmanship, and whether they suit you and how you will use the Jeep. The items listed are all bolt-on modifications, so workmanship shouldn't be much of an issue. However most Jeeps that old have had the wiring harness hacked on, which can be a pain to deal with, so look it over carefully for splices and extraneous wires.

Price? If it's rust free and in top condition, I think it would be well worth it. A Bondo Queen, hacked over with shiny piieces bolted on would be worth half that or less, IMO.

 

Thanks Jim!

I think it will sell for 5K

thats what we discussed asnyway

i havent had a chance to see it in person, but the guy seems like a good ole guy from the country when we spoke on the phone ... i ran a few mod past a buddy of mine and my friend validated a lot of the things the seller said: this isnt a daily driver, its predominatly a weekend car (at best for him), the gear ratio will keep it under 60, and it has power ...

i think it was painted 3 years ago when the seller purchased it

he said he bought it for roughly what hes trying tosell it for now (i think his orig price was 9500)

but im only going to use this as a summer vehicle and a truck to take to the lake (30 miles away), maybe some camping, etc ,,,

so would 5k be a good deal?

 

As I said, IMO $5K would be a good deal if it's truly rust free, but that's unlikely unless it came from the desert southwest. Any rust would knock that value down. Significant rust makes the body and frame right next to worthless.

An important item that wasn't mentioned is the transmission and transfer case. If it's a Borg Warner T18a with the granny low it would be worth more to me; an automatic would be worth a whole lot less. The odds are that it's an automatic or 3-speed with a Dana 20 transfer case - a good combination but not great IMO. The T18 or automatic business is really a matter of personal preference. If it has the Quadratrac transfer case it would also be worth less to me, but some folks really like them. A quadratrac without low range is useless off road, but the module can be added easily, if you can find one.

 

info

just called him

he said

* someone had a springover conversion on it (homemade lift kit) and he put a new/real one on (the 4inch skywalker)

* tranny= 3 speed original with jeep .... tranfser = dana 20

 

* someone had a springover conversion on it (homemade lift kit) and he put a new/real one on (the 4inch skywalker)

Not a good sign - a spring-over is a superior way to lift a Jeep, if it's done right and you want that much lift, about 5". I suspect the seller doesn't know much about Jeeps and didn't do his homework. You're likely to find more things that were done to impress teenagers at the mall instead of to build a good-functioning Jeep. The 4.88 gears fall into that category. Not necessarily bad, but not good either. It sure would be nice if someone who knows Jeeps could look at it for you.

 

It sure would be nice if someone who knows Jeeps could look at it for you.

yes it would haha

are you in my neighborhood? LOL

so does that nix the deal in your eyes?

i didnt have anyone check it out, but i ran it by a car guy here in my town (that i trust) and even though he seems to echo a lot of your sentiments about gearing, rust, etc ... he still thinks it might be a good deal for tooling around town (aka, under 55mph)

im more on the fence now that i was initially, and im a cynic LOL

 

No, it wouldn't nix it for me, but it does make it one that really sholud be inspected closely and considered very carefully.

What's missing from this conversation is what you want out of it. Every leaf spring lift I've ridden in that's in the 4" range has bounced badly on the street. They all have had a nasty fore-and-aft rocking motion that is very unpleasant, besides bouncing up and down. That takes away from the fun of driving it on the street. You'll have to evaluate that in light of your relationship with your chiropractor.

Something else to consider is that a 4" lift on a narrow-track CJ can be somewhat dangerous on the street. A few years after that '78 was built, Jeep started putting wide-track axels on CJs. Then with the YJs they built a wider frame which has the effect of increasing roll resistance, and they also lowered it a little. All of that was in response to the safety Nazis bleating about Jeeps rolling over. That campaign was hysterically over the top, but not totally without merit. Jeeps have always been tippy, and that '78 is probably the second worst, after the same series CJ5s. By jacking it up four inches it has been turned into a vehicle that must to be driven quite conservatively.

There are board members in several states in your corner of the world. Since you're not completely familiar with old Jeeps, I'd suggest that you narrow your location down some in your profile, and we'll see if there's someone close who can check it over with you and give some better advice. Or if you want to send me more information by PM and I'll try to match you up with someone. At the very least you should look it over for rust, as I described earlier, and take it for a nice long test drive to see how it fits you.

Something to keep in mind is that I've been feeding you information mixed with personal preference and opinion. I'm an old guy and have had Jeeps and 4-wheel drives for forty years. I've formed some opinions that are quite different from other people's with different experiences and plans for using their Jeep.

 

thanks!

a PM is en route

i just want something dependable and its not like im out to climb everest or go through the everglades. that may offend some jeep purist but the fact is im in the city and was originally in the market for a 67-77 bronco.

i have had 2 jeeps in the past - both briefly - and never really had to do any work to either

so this will be a truck i can take the top off and go to the lake with, do some camping, etc ...

in terms of gearing, torque, how much mudd it can take, etc ... those arent as big on my list as dependability and "true value" for lack of a better term. i just want a solid ride and something that wont break the bank. besides, i dont have a lot of land to explore ... just the city and the burbs

 

jim

your PMs are disabled

will you (or anyone else in the know) please email me - mbehr24@gmail.com

matt

thanks!

 

given what my wants are and taking into account your advice, would something like this be a better bet?

1991 Jeep Wrangler (excellent cond) - $5900 (Douglasville)

given its a 91... much more recent compared to a jeep from the 70s ... but does that translate into a 'more dependable' or solid summer truck?

same question for this one ... tellico ready jeep

theres a ton of jeeps out there

 

As already said rust can be a real problem. It more or less forced me to sell my CJ and get a YJ.

The problem with multiple suspensions or other mods being used and removed is that often old bits remain. My CJ was a great example of this. It was on it third engine, it left the factory with a 151 and then had 4.3 Chevy and then a 258 when I got it. There were bits and pieces of wiring in it for each, trying to figure out the wiring was next to impossible with each wire spliced several times and colors changing back and forth. The same thing can hold true for suspensions and other things.

If you go to look at this Jeep take a close look for anything that looks like it does not belong. Look for unused brackets in the suspension for example. With any Jeep take a close look at the wiring both under the hood and dash. Look for splices, changes in wire color excreta. Note, the 360 was never offered in any short wheel base Jeep so there has been at least one engine change.

Given what you want the Jeep for a newer YJ or TJ may well be a better choice for you, but all the advice you have gotten so far still applies.

 

I would be very careful at this point. People who describe early Jeeps as "like new" and then don't even touch on what shape the body or frame is in are out of line. The plain fact is this... If this Jeep was truely rust free it would easily bring 10k with the upgrades it has. But 99% of that value would simply be because it is so exceptionally rare to find an older CJ that hasn't been hacked up, patched up, and put back together the wrong way. The engine swap and your seller's description of a previous suspension set up are not good indicators.

If it's close to you, take Jim's advice and a refrigerator magent with you to look at it. Otherwise keep searching for something you can actually feel ad drive before you buy. And by the way... this is first hand experience talking.

I bought my CJ and drove eight hours to get it thinking I was getting a steal. What I bought was a Jeep I could have driven fifteen minutes to buy for the same money. It has since been through a complete rebuild included new frame, and all sheet metal minus the grill, hood and dash panel. In less than five years.

 

side exhaughst

repaired holes near driver door

engine - pic 1

pic 2

small rust spot near driver side HL

front

driver door

ding near driver door hinge

front shot

engine again

front again

passenger

rust spot on tailgate

rear shot

only rust i could find on the floor was on the passenger floor and it was minimal - at least all i could determine was it was only in a couple of spots and looked superficial

 

The underhood wiring looks suspect. And you need someone who can check it carefully for rust. I think you're missing it. That spot near the lower left door hinge looks like a rust-out. Did you look on the inside there? The bedliner-covered interior is another warning sign. It's a great way to hide serious rust problems. And if there's one rust-out showing, you can bet there are plenty of others you can't see. I'm definitely not saying it's a rust bucket, but from the pictures, I suspect that it is.

 

if i saw rust (about a dozen places) i tried to look at it from all angles

the two "bullet holes" near the driver door looked to be the worst (deepest)

and im not sure what u mean by "bedliner"

he did have two small black rubber mats on the floors

the floors have been "rhino lined" but it looks like a think coat or a generic coat was sprayed as its not quit as "Knobby" as other rhino liners ive seen ... again thats just my opinon

u r the expert - so im not knocking what u are saying, but i took pics of the rust i saw

i crawled through it and under it with a flashlight and even "tapped" welded spots but not crumble, no flaking, nothing. the headers had some visible wear/ corrosion, but ive seen that in a lot of cars

hes got a garage off of his home where he keeps the jeep (not in the elemets)

all of his other fixereuppers are in his shop. the seller says he bought it of a doctor who owns land near him... the seller is a gearhead with a 50s sports coup and two old trucks in his shop on his farm that hes working on. seems he just wants to move onto toher projects. i have a good radar when it comes to ppl and he seems honest - he was making reccomendations as well when i told him it would be in an urban/suburban environment (example: he outfutted the jeep with disc brakes but said a booster on the fron t would be a good idea to make them more responsive).

 

i really appreciate all fo the feedback guys

jim - what about the wiring looks suspect to you?

how can u tell?

thanks!!!

for what its worth, and this is just my initial opinion, but i like the jeep ... its runs hard and its rugged

my fear is - and why i turned to you guys - the experts - is that i just dont want to get screwed

im not looking for a diamond int he rough, just looking to avoid a lemon

my perfect scenerio would be to buy it at at or undervalue and keep it for two summers ... hopefully not have to do any major work and then upgrade or get out without losing my shirt

i just want a solid jeep that wont leave me stranded, but one old enough where it wont be a huge issue if i get my wet puppy in there when i take him to the lake/river

i like the older style jeeps ... but thats just preference

a newer model with some bigger tires and a few mods would work as well, but i dont know how to weight out my options ... such as do i get a 2000 jeep for 6 grand (and it has like 150K miles on it) vesus the 78 thats been tweaked and rebuilt?

1998 Jeep Wrangler 4X4

this one looks nice on paper ... but how would resale/cost of upkeep/ruggedness/etc stack up tothe CJ7 i looked at ...

 

There is a wire draped along the left valve cover that doesn't belong, and several along the right valve cover that are hanging loose. They may be innocuous but I can't tell from the pictures.

The bedliner I was talking about is the Rhino Liner interior. It can be a nice, tough, sound-deadening floor covering, or it can hide a lot of problems.

That could be a very good Jeep, and if it really is rust-free it would be an excellent buy IMO. If the paint, body putty and Rhino Liner are hiding rust you could have a nightmare on your hands in a year or so.

Perhaps you should evaluate it in light of your ability and willingness to work on it. An old Jeep takes a lot of maintenance compared to a newer car. The front hub bearings need to be greased occasionally, there are four gear cases that need gear lube changed, there are a bunch of grease nipples that new cars don't have. The back brakes are drums that need to be tended to. And you can't trust the average oil change place to do things right.

In the "Read this first" thread there's a link to Frapper which is a map that shows where a bunch of board members live. See if anybody is close to you.

 

If your plan is to use it primarily as your weekend ride, not put tons of miles on it, and sell in in a couple years I think you've found a solid jeep for what you're looking for. If your guages and lights are working (properly) and the jeep runs strong I don't see an issue. I know first hand how much of a pain old wiring can be (my wires change color more than michael jackson) but it sounds like everything else is working properly...

But I stand by Jim's opinion with frame and body when it comes to rust. Personally I would put much more weight on the frame (no pun intended) because if you're going to wheel it hard you need the structural integrety of a frame that can flex without cracking. If the frame is solid (check the inside rear very carefully for overlapping steel, wield, holes or new paint that might be covering rust) and it runs strong I say grab it up and rejoin the jeep community!