I posted a 'thing' on the toy board a while back - mercedes have use swing axles, adn conventional IRs setups, with a variety or gearing, and locker options available.

FWIW, I helped a friend build buggy many years ago using the 'open shaft' type benz axles - REAR mounted honda prelude 1800cc motor ( they spin backwards to most other brands), a nissan 5 speed ( 'cause we had it) a Nissan 4 speed ( casue he had that 2, and with dual Independents you have all the space in the world) a spare Niva t-case ( fulltime, its small, and hooked up to the Nissan case) and 4.08 mercedes open-shaft axles both ends.oh - and it had mercedes 4matic ( awd) front hubs on it. that hihng was/is nasty - with tranny, he sold it about 18 months ago, and it was in Arizona at the time.go figure what 3.8*3.8*2.2*4.08 gearing is, hooked up to a buzy little prelude twin carb engine 8^D

point is, the mercedes axles worked incrediubly well for it. We welded up teh rear, and ran a foactory ( Behr) clutch type LSD in the front. bolt pattern was 5 on 4.5, so 15" rims, adn tires were easy to do

ps: IRS list
Mercedes
Nissan Z car
***FORD/MAZDA 4 wheel drives,a dn cars ( the new escape & clone, w/ 8.8" diff are a good example)
niva usesIFS that could be run as IRS, ditto the Toyota IFS. not too sure if chevy/ford/dodge versions are as versatile.

that give you any ideas?.

chris

 

forgot to add - fill out your profile: people will use it to give 'value added info' - like cheap parts, and volunteer labor thats local to you. guaranteed you'll see some flak if you dont fill it out.

c.

 

forgot to add - fill out your profile: people will use it to give 'value added info' - like cheap parts, and volunteer labor thats local to you. guaranteed you'll see some flak if you dont fill it out.

c.

 

LOL , "forgot to add" ....
Might not be a bad idea to change your name , that one won't get too many positive responses here....
Sarge

 

Re: Kinda OT: Wanderer4x4 and other creatives.... *DELETED*

Post deleted by JeepinDoberman

 

lousy topic, 'cause without being there, its impossible to judge who/what where

jeepndoberman - ever lived with a drunk? pamper them, and it just encourages it...pamper a drunk driver, and really its not 'if', but 'when' they end up hurting someone, even if its only themself. all tact aside, outspoken 'me' probably would have called the cops on a drunk driver accident....I have absolutely no patience with that [censored], for ANY reason. OTOH, I dont know if I'd call being a good samaritan 'dumb', either: this whole forum is kind of about being a fgood samaritan, and helping each other out.

...I'd say any of the regulars on here are the type who'd stop to help at an accident, THATS the important part, not the dumb [censored] whoperpetuates all the garbage that makes it so a lot fewer people stop.

c.

 

I knew you were the one to ask...LOL.
I did a search on the toy board (keyword mercedes), and couldn't see it. Maybe because I'm tired. I haven't priced out Benz parts or ever even seen them...BUT IM GONNA LOOK.

I have 2 almost complete toy IFS. One is a 86 pickup and the other is a 87 runner...they look the same to me. My plans were using the toy ifs already but making my own arms and shortening some shafts or using a negative offset wheel (negative back spacing? I dont know the term) to narrow it, kinda like how F-1's have everything stuffed in the wheel.

What throws me off is the rotation direction if I was going to use one for the rear(one of the toys). Won't the rear wheels be going backwards if I use the IFS as an IRS?
Do you know if the benz shafts have as much travel as the toys?
The Z car interests me to.

Thanks for the leads...I'm going to be busy tommorrow.

 

nope, no issues using the same chunks both ends...if you're over designed, lubrication, and heat arent quite such a big issues, either. Thats why things like the Series Land Rovers, the big old Land Cruisers, Nivas ( 8^D) Samurais can use the same R&P sets, or even completley swappable chunks front, and rear. No ones ever explained to my satisfaction why, for example, the Calmini LSD is not for use in a front axle though?! load? handling? Legal department covering the company's a**?

for your setup, if you HAVE 2 IFS toyota axles, I'd say use those, as they have WAY more gearing, and locker options than the benz's. For the arms, I'd just build equal length tubular long arms, and for the stubs, use a spare set of front stubs bolted to a carrier between the arms. ( if you're making a REAL off-road only rig, build it with 4 wheel steering, and just use a whole second set of front end gear) FWIW 4 wheel steering isnt legal on-road , or is 'speed limited' a lot of places though, so you might want to check your local regs before starting in on that.

chris

 

I too have been mulling this over...was thinking more the 1100 cc engine from a motorcycle though.

 

satchmo -look up 'legends of racing' - they're 3/4 scale mini stock cars, based ont eh Suzuki GS1100 engein. VERY fun rigs - gets you into class type racing for ~$6500 CAD, adn whatever sort of yearly budget you can manage.

I'd LOVE to see someone do this for some sort of off-road desert racing buggy class.as an entry level for the sport. (ditto for a mini rock crawler class, actually...btu then you'd have to content with 1000cc Sj's, adn the mini LJ's!! 8^D)

chris

 

now everyone is gonna think i'm crazy.... and i probably am.... but i have been thinkin about stickin a gold wing engine in front of a sami trans.... ok tell me how dumb i am

 

Here is the link for the Legends cars:

http://www.600racing.com/

~daxe

 

Yeah I know about legends cars my cousin actually races them in Ohio, and we have them running on our local track. I think this idea could work as far as something very fun to work with. And yeah we might just start a new sport, maybe we can use a dodge power wagon as our "vintage" template.

 

If you think you have gearing problems now, think about where most MC engines run for their powerband. Also, they are not noted for high torque.

 

well the gold wing is noted for its high torque... well for a bike anyway.... but stop and concider.... it will be going thru 2 trannys

 

no matter HOW you try and turn it, the gold wing makes more torque than the old LJ motors ( 500cc 2 strokes, etc). were you thnking of the older 1100/1200 motors, or the newer 1600's?? ( or are they 1800's now?) 6 speed+reverse still attached? they're shaft drive, so it wouldnt be THAT hard to rig it up! I dont even think you'd need 2 trannies - the Goldwing has a beveled reduction gear at the rear wheel, does it not? thats the equivalent of the R&P set in the diffs...so I bet rpms on teh highway would actually be close to a stock 1300.

heck, now you've really got me wondering - I've got an old 100cc Kawasaki G5 engine ( oil injected disk intake 2 stroke) Its an old racing motor, and makes 25HP or so ( at ballistic rpms) hmmm, time for a 4wd 5/8 scale mini zuk?

chris

 

Chris, werent you building a small zuk for your girls? Hows it coming (if you are still doing it)

 

yup - but it wasnt specifically a 'zuk'..basically a tube type buggy with quicktatch body panels. you 'wouldnt' want to copy its driveline though - no tranny, or t-case, 'cause its a propane elecrtic hybrid. Power is a modified 11HP Kohler, & sequential alternators, and it'll have 1*1200w @ 15Volt motor per end ( HD Mercedes diesel starters with busted throwouts, actually - I have a few spares lying around). I havent really even decided if I want to just chain drive solid axles or adapt somthing else w/ a real diffs.( LOL - if I dont experiment with the Sj410 axles to buidl a front live axle for the Niva, I just might put those axles under the buggy 8^D)

its kind of hung up waiting for $$$ - I've got way too much money tied up in parts, and prototype projects right now. ( besides, my kids are 3, and 5...I'm just getting a head start 8^D )

chris

 

Thanks again for the info...
I went and looked at a few benz parts, wow they are spendy at yards that have them.
I haven't been able to locate a wrecked newer Explorer to check out yet.
I spent alot of time out looking at the toy IFS units, I still dont know how I can use one for the rear without the wheels going opposite directions.
As far as a goldwing motor...A used running one of those costs alot more then a used 1.3 (especially since I'm currenty taking the one out of mine.)
I would also worry about the Zuk tranny spinning at 11,000 rpms constantly even if it was possible. It would be cool though to have that rpm range in a buggy though.

Wanderer...if you want to go solid axle with your Kohler project have you thought about a snowmobile centrifical unit? Also have you looked into cushman or golfcart rears if you want to put a diff in it? It seems to me that bypassing the whole Electric part of it would save alot of weight and engineering, but as with most the things you are working on, it sounds very interesting. Also are those starters rated for a continous duty cycle? I have know a Leeson motor distributor that has 3 scratch and dents, and he owes me a favor.

just some thoughts...

 

starter motors are kinda weird in the way they're rated..I'm going with the benz ones 'cause a) I have two with good windings, but dead throwout casings, and b) short of marine/industrial starters, theyve got the heaviest windings I can find..1200amps (sorry, I'd said 'watts, but they're actually rated in amps) is 18 kw output - WAY more than I'd need for this application. The output is going to incorporate a small fan to blow air across them, and I'm rigging up some cooling fins onto the cases to keep the temps down even more.

Golf carts use dana 10, or dana 12 axles..same as the go-carts at Malibu Grand Prix ( if you know what that is??) I used to be the head mechanic at the only one in Canada ( Kelowna!!), and found out all sorts of interesting buggy stuff at the time. Anyway, point is, the dana 10/12 axles are wider, and weigh quite a bit more than the SJ410 axles. ( biggier R&P too...now THATS funny)

as for 'why', well, weight isnt my primary concern...the hybrid concept allows for more flexibility as the kids grow. By running multiple alternators, I can cut them in/out and control just how much juice the kids can get. as they get older bigger/more altes can be added as needed. the propane Kohler actually makes ~19 hp, so 'power' isnt really an issue. A second major issue, is that the starters will run to 11,000 rpm - and the thing about electric motors is they have an almost flat powerband from 1rpm to max. no shifts needed, but I can run ~50:1 gearing for best power. go figure what sort of speed vs power curve 19 hp ( engine max) at say 50 rpm, through 50:1 gears gives 8^D

in its way, the kids buggy is a prototype for something I've wanted to try for a LONG time...a full sized hybrid electric rock-crawler.

chris