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It's OK Ozarkjeep, we're fine.

665 Views 15 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  JEEPN
It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif You remember that story about the Emporer's new clothes? Where the two con men told the emporer that they would make a set of clothes for him that could not be seen by anyone except those who were "modern" and "stylish". And so they did the job, and the emporer could not see the clothes but he didn't say anything because he didn't want to be considered UNmodern, and UN stylish. And it so happened that the emporer wore the clothes in a parade and the public also could not see the clothes but didn't want to say anything because, well....they wanted to be "Modern" and "Stylish". Pretty soon a kid who was standing along the parade route pointed to the Emperor and declared: "Hey....The Emporer has NO clothes on"./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif...So you see, Ozark, no matter how much the liberals and their democrat masters say that it is "diversity", the fact is that it is PERversity. It is now, and ALWAYS has been. And this business of calling people homophobic because they won't embrace perversion, and approve of teaching it in the school, and approve of it in the military and in government, is just the Emporer's new clothes all over again. Personally, I DON'T CARE what queers do in their own little domiciles; I just don't want to see it, or hear them talk about it, have it become a state-sanctioned priviledged condition(CA) and I sure don't want school kids exposed to it. It's not that I am racist or against any minority group, rather that I am against perverts trying to make me think what they do is normal when I know damn well it isn't, and trying to make me feel guilty for something that they should have got over long ago./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif I have a lifelong friend that is a ****, and if I could make a movie of his life, you would see what a bankrupt, tragic life it has been. I've been a friend to him in his darkest hour, saved him from alcoholism and suicide, and have patiently listened to his tales of risky San Francisco **** encounters. Schoolkids need to see THAT story.
You know, Ozark, you ARE a valuable contributor to this BBS, and everyone is the better for it. There comes a time, however, that you might want to ask: "Are my leaders telling me the truth?"... remembering that TRUTH and IDEOLOGY cannot exist side by side. Either you have the truths that good men have always lived by, or you have Democrat ideology which tells you that truth doesn't matter, and that what you KNOW is perversion, is diversity????
I hope that this more clearly states my position, and I thank those who have supported my commentary on these off-topic sojourns./wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Now back to the oiling upgrade on the distributor gear on the AMC 304!!! /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

The last time I looked, this was still America, and every single soul here has the God given right to think... and say exactly what they think.
I spent six years in the military protecting that right, and all of the other rights you have here in America.

If you don't like some, or all of the current political structure, vote. If you don't vote, you have no right to bitch.

There is no accounting for taste, or in many cases, the lack of taste.
I don't care what adults do in their homes. I don't care what opinions others might have.
They have the right to spout any thing that comes to mind.

I have the right NOT to have to listen to it.

In 1995, I was trying to find a house in the Fla. Keys for a reasonable price
(reasonable price is an oxymoron in the Keys).
My girlfriend and I went to a restaurant to have Thanksgiving dinner.
Four Queers came in and set down behind us just about the time our food came. They were obviously two 'couples'.
Their conversation almost immediately rolled around to bleeding rectal infections.
I asked them to find another topic of conversation while we ate.
All four started screaming that I was a homophonic Nazi, and they had free speech rights.
One of them grabbed the front of my shirt, and I knocked him out. Not violently, just a pressure point tap under the chin. The last thing I want to do is trade blood with an obvious high risk person for aids, hepatitis, and a thousand other things.
The owner of the restaurant, a stout older woman, boxed our meals up immediately, and gave us gift certificates to come back with, but told us the queers had already called the police.
We left, and went back about a week later. The owner said that is how they keep the 'straight' people from coming there, we just happened to stumble in the latest restaurant the militant queers wanted to take over.
She said she told the sheriff's deputy that they laid hands on me first, and no warrant was issued, and the guy wasn't seriously injured, but had a migraine headache when he left. (normal after effects of a pressure point knock out)
She gave us free food a couple of times a week for two months just to have us, and some people I had been diving with hang around.
The so called 'Men' wanted nothing to do with someone that won't tolerate having his rights violated.
(We became friends with the owner, and we still get Christmas cards from her)

I have no political view on being queer, or having a communicable disease, or being a junkie, I just don't choose to associate with them, and I will not tolerate having a hand laid on me. That is my right.
I don't do it to others, and I won't have it done to me.

I do have an objection to the use of the word 'Gay'.
Gay means happy, carefree, child like, not being queer.
'Queer', coincidentally, means strange, odd, unusual, not normal.
You decide.

The way I have it figured, for every queer couple, that means there are two more potential women out there for me....
(anybody seen the extra 8.8 million women I'm supposed to have dibs on?)

I don't argue Religion, Politics, Sports or what a woman might be thinking.... (sic)
I will argue Budwiser or Coors on Sunday when I'm getting free beer!
I will argue Memphis style Bar-B-Que over St. Louis style Bar-B-Que, and both over Texas style Bar-B-Que...
(Texas Bar-B-Que, Tomato Ketchup, Coca-Cola, Beer and Pepper... Not my favorite)
I will argue live bait over plastic worms if there is free beer involved on a Sunday.

Later on, Aaron

So many cats.... So few recipes...
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

I'm pretty sure that the right to Think has just been eliminated through an Executive Order... /wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif It actually is becoming harder and harder to speak your mind, without someone becoming offended and/or angered by it... They feel that the right way to think, their way, is the way everyone should think and no one should speak any other way because they might offend the all knowing person...

But anyway, that brings me to one other point that already has been addressed, that I agree with... While queers, politicians, liars, cheats, and others have the right to their opinion and the right to make their opinion known, we have a right to not listen to that opinion...

And the final thing I agree with is Aaron using his right of self defense when someone decided to provoke hostilities... Did you press charges on that guy for starting that and then trying to blame you for it??? I'm sure there's got to be some law against a queer attacking a straight person because of sexual preference... I'm sure there's many laws that go the other way though, but I'm not sure...

Oops, this is my final thing I'm sayin' here: Why don't you want to run for the Presidency, CJDave? I'm sure enough of us are around here to make the cabinet... I'll take the job of Transportation Secretary or something similar... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif


/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

I was hollering "RIGHT ON" 'til you got to the part about Texas BBQ. Like the song sez - you can talk about yer yeller, you an talk about yer rose, but when you talk about Texas or Texas BBQ, you best do it with a BIG, BIG SMILE /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif. AND for your info lots of Texas BBQ, especially hill country bbq is served dry - no sauce at all.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
My Web Site
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

You talk about your freedom of speech.
I found out the other day that our boy who is a Junior in high school just about got kicked out of school for talking to another kid about
pump shotguns for bird hunting. I guess it a law in all schools that there is a zero tolerates of any thing that has to do with guns???? The farm kids darn near all have guns in there cars and if the school wanted to check it out the kids are breaking a federal law.???
As far as I know it is normal for kids to talk about guns and hunting. As far as I know its normal for the farm kids to have guns in there cars. Has been that way for as long as I know of .NOW our government passes a law against it.
Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

I'm all for CJ Dave for president!
I want to be the secretary of Sunday beer or 'Hare & Hound' trail outings or something...

I did not press charges, the courts have more important things to do than deal with two guys that got into a pissing contest.
My point was, I don't care what people talk about, as long as it's appropriate to the forum,
(I have a lot of room to talk, we are on a Jeep BBS!)
and not hurting anyone physically. My girlfriend would have been physically sick if the conversation on bleeding rectal infections has progressed. This was a nice restaurant, not the school yard with fifth graders trying to gross each other out, or a medical center where one should expect conversations on infections.
It's a question of GOOD TASTE, and when you lay hands on someone, accountability.
I WILL hold you ACCOUNTABLE for your actions. It was their CHOICE of subject matter.
I ASKED them to change the subject. It was their CHOICE to make it a confrontation.
I had no choice when hands were laid on me...

As for Texas Barbecue.... I've been all over Texas at one time or another, from El Paso, to Austin, to Houston to Dallas, to the Big Bend country, and I still have yet to have good Texas style barbecue....
Now, If you want to put your money where your mouth is....
Invite us all down for some 4-Wheelin' and some barbecue & beer, and we'll be the judges... (sly grin...) ....

If you want a real laugh, look below! A friend of my cousin wrote this, and it's about a Texas Chili cook-off.
I love Texas Chili!

Recently I was honored to be selected as an
Outstanding Famous Celebrity from TEXAS to be a judge at a chili cook-off, basically because no one else wanted to do it.
Also the original person called in sick at the last moment and I
happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking
directions to the beer wagon when the call came.
I was assured by the other two judges that the chili wouldn't be all
that spicy, and besides they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted this as being one of those burdens you endure when you're a writer and known and adored by all.
Here are the scorecards from the event:

Chili # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili
JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.
JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor Very mild.
FRANK: Holy smokes, what is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway with it. Took me two beers to put the flames out. Hope that's the worst one. These people are crazy.

Chili # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili
JUDGE ONE: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight
Jalapeno tang.
JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be
taken seriously.
FRANK: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the front of the beer line. The barmaid looks like a professional wrestler after bad night. She was so irritated over my gagging sounds that the snake tattoo under her eye started to twitch. She has arms like Popeye and a face like
Winston Churchill.
I will NOT pick a fight with her.

Chili # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili
JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more
JUDGE TWO: A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of red
FRANK: This has got to be a joke. Call the EPA, I've located a
uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been sneezing Drano.
Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way so I could make it to the beer wagon.
Barmaid pounded me on the back; now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. She said her friends call her "Sally."
Probably behind her back they call her "Forklift."

Chili # 4: Bubba's Black Magic
JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice.
JUDGE TWO: Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish
for fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.
FRANK: I felt something scraping across my tongue but was unable to taste it. Sally was standing behind me with fresh refills so I wouldn't have to dash over to see her.
When she winked at me her snake sort of coiled and uncoiled ... it's kind of cute.

Chili # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover
JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers makea strong statement.
FRANK: My ears are ringing and I can no longer focus my eyes.
I belched and four people in front of me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage.
Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly on it from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other judges asked me to stop screaming.

Chili # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety
JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold. Good balance of spice and peppers.
JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb.
FRANK: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous flames. No one wants to stand behind me except Sally. I asked if she wants to go dancing later.

Chili # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili
JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers.
JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef threw in canned
chili peppers at the last moment.
FRANK: You could put a hand grenade in my mouth and pull the pin and I wouldn't feel it. I've lost the sight in one eye and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered with chili which slid unnoticed out of my mouth at some point.
Good, at autopsy they'll know what killed me. Go Sally, save yourself before it's too late. Tell our children I'm sorry I was not there to conceive them.
I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful and I'm not getting any
oxygen anyway. If I need air I'll just let it in through the hole in my stomach.
Call the X-Files people and tell them I've found a super nova on my tongue.

Chili # 8: Helen's Mount Saint Chili
JUDGE ONE: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge Number 3 fell and pulled the chili pot on top of himself.
JUDGE TWO: A perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili, safe for all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.
FRANK: Is that you mama.......?

So many cats.... So few recipes...
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

I have to agree, let's argue over BBQ instead of bleeding rectal infections (good gravy, if I was queer, that'd scare me "straight" right there!)

I'm from St. Louis & have drooled over that Memphis stuff as well. But, I gotta admit that nobody does a brisket like they do in South Texas.

Technically, the sauce isn't BBQ sauce, but basting sauce (as mentioned above, BBQ doesn't necessarily indicate basted - it CAN be dry. Anyone had a Fajita steak from The Lonestar in Harlingen, TX or anywhere in Northern Mexico? - Oh baby, I'm droolin' now!).

I surfed the web one day & downloaded a WHOLE bunch of home-made BBQ sauce recipes into a MSWord file. Unfortunately, it's 124k, so I can't attach. But, if anyone wants it, send me a private message with your e-mail address & I'll send it to you. I think it prints out to about 35 pages.


/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

I laughed so hard could hardly see the computer screen. The Texas Chili episode probably occurred at one of the lesser or pre grand champion cook offs. He was still standing after the first taste. Had to be pretty mild. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Some of that stuff is only edible if your mother ate it regularly before you were born, and you have continued to eat it at least 2 or 3 times a week since you were born. Takes a while to build up a tolerence to it, and it has to be maintained or you will lose it.
BBQ - Hill Country Texas style. The Texas hill country is like no where else in the U.S. Likewise, some of the food and customs are unique too. Several pockets of mostly German people. Some, even after a generation or two, still do not speak English, or at least play like they don't, but they do speak German, and they do COOK German. Homemade German sausage, smoked food, German beer...good stuff!!!
One BBQ place in Llano has the customers entering through the above ground pits. You pick the meat you want, and the amount. The man tending the pits pulls the meat out, cuts a big slab of whatever you want, and there are several choices, slaps it on a piece of butcher paper, and you take it inside to the scales where it is weighed and sliced. You pay by the pound, pick up sides of beans, corn and slaw, ice tea, beer or water and eat off the butcher paper. Sauce is available,
but you have to look for it.
Some of the BBQ joints smoke for 3 or 4 hours, then seal the meat in foil and cook for another 20 hours or so. Real juicy, smokey, and falls apart at the touch. No sauce needed. Good stuff.
Yes, there are tomato sauce BBQ places. A lot of them are chain type places and are from fair to pretty good, not great, but still better than most of the Eastern and Northeastern excuses for BBQ. I ran accross a rib joint that served nothing but beef ribs. ONE rib to a plate, and it was a meal. It was the entire rib, uncut, about 2 feet long. The BBQ was pretty good, not great, but the entire rib was kinda neat.
My wife grew up in Birmingham on pork BBQ. She took me to what was supposed to be a VERY good bbq joint. The meat had a mild smokey flavor, the sauce looked like brown thin water and didn't taste much better. I wasn't impressed. Some friends of mine have an annual pig bbq. They are from the Georgia, Alabama area. They dig a big pit, put coals in the bottom and stretch a 100 lb or so pig on heavy steel wire over the coals, cover it with wet burlap and cook it for a day or two. It's a big deal to stay up all night, drinking beer and tending the fire. People come from Gerogia and California for the "pig out", and the Georgia folks claim this is REAL down home Georgia bbq. The party is neat. Staying out all night drinking beer, turning the pig, tending the pit and just generally all night is neat, but I am not all that impressed with the bbq.

Doug '97 TJ
Creator of the CBrack
My Web Site
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

Guns... Knives.... Zero tolerance.... I didn't have much reason to think about this stuff, until 2 or 3 years ago, my place of employment dicided that we have 'zero-tolernace'. So.... since I don't much care for the 'do-gooders' tellin' me everything I can and can't do, I started packin' my old Boy Scout knife. It's the only knife I have that exceeds the 'zero-tolerance' blade-length. Can you imagine, the Boy Scouts trusted me with the knife when I was a kid, but my place of employment is willing to fire me for having it. And, the gun.... I always had a gun in my desk, until the 'new-rule'. Now, the gun is in the car. My employer says no guns in the 'work-place', and they try to tell me that the car is included. But, so far, they are unwilling to let me use the car for an office. If they catch me, I am threatened with immediate firing... (Sometimes, the way we are treated, I can believe why they would rather see me 'un-armed'.)

Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

Aaron thanks for the good laugh/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
My wife had to walk in to see what the h*ll was wrong with me/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

Wider is better but taller is cooler!
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

When I was in high school, I always carried 2 things: a lighter and a Swiss army knife... I hated the crappy scissors they had at school and my knife had a great set of scissors (and in all the auto shop classes I was in it was very useful), and the lighter was there just because they said I couldn't have one... I mean who would attack someone with either a swiss army knife or a lighter???


/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif A couple of years ago, I accompanied my daughter's 6th grade class on her trip to the UN. I always carry my Swiss Army Knife (an old Boy Scout, Be Prepared and all that) Had to go thru a metal detector and didn't give the knife a second thought, put it in the tray with my keys and change. They confiscated it, claiming it was a "weapon" and I could get it back when I left. I went on the tour and, naturally, it ends in the GIFT SHOP. Guess what, in the Shop there was FOLDING KNIVES FOR SALE!!!!! Who the H*LL were they protecting?????? /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

PS All this talk about BBQ.... LET'S EAT!!!! /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

Well, growing up in Wyoming - I shot my first gun with my dad in 1st grade - and I knew the "LAWS" of gun safety and safe handling by that time. By the time I turned 12, I was trusted by the family to own and carry my gun, unsupervised, out into the field or up in the forest to shoot whatever animal was in season and bring it home for dinner. We had loaded guns in the house (what good are they unloaded?) where I could touch them - but I knew better, because I knew dad would have beat my butt until my butt cheeks fell right off my body if I even though about it - let alone taking it to shool and shooting up my classmates! I never once considered it "abuse" when he whipped the fire out of me when I screwed up either! I knew my dad loved me more than life itself, but I knew better than to not do what I was told, cross him, talk back to him, lie to him, or do anything that may have appeared to be wrong against another person - ESPECIALLY MY MOTHER OR ANY OTHER FEMALE!!!! One of the most memorable moments was when my Dad and my youngest half-brother (13yrs older than myself) sat me down and told me that they would love my and would fight to the death for me no matter what I decided to do in life. But if I ever became queer, they would hunt me down and kill me very slowly!!! I had no clue at the time what the heck they were talking about, but I could see in their eyes that they were serious - and remembered it when I first learned about queers. My dad died when I was 10, and my mom died when I was about 12 1/2. I have been on my own since I graduated high school and went to college at age 17. Yet I never did drugs, drank alcohol, been in trouble with the law, and I was even a virgin until I got married. I'm not bragging - I am making a point and stating a fact; I knew the difference between right and wrong, and I didn't learn if from the government, from school, or from my friends. I learned it at home as it was modeled to me by may parents, and I was disciplined at home when I didn't do what was expected of me. Personally, I think this is what is wrong with society today - and not our lack of funding of social programs, lack of funding of our schools, etc, etc, etc, etc. Somehow, we need to re-establish the family, and proper family function. I hurt for those who come from a bad family - I work with many of them every day in the Corps and can see what they are dealing with today because of it. I am now thankful for every whipping I ever got!
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

xjy173, maybe the people at the UN watched too many episodes of "Macgyver" and knew what types of things from weapons to torches, to completely different things could be created with the assistance of a Swiss Army Knife... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif


/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif when the kids were little they sometimes watched reruns of "Gilligan's Island" and they would ask: "Dad, if the 'perfesser' has brains enough to make a nuclear reactor out of a coconut, how come he can't fix a small hole in their boat?" Hmmmm..... good must have been a gov'mt operation./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
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Re: It\'s OK Ozarkjeep, we\'re fine.


I laughed so hard I almost puked. You guys have no idea of what a BBQ is. We in the northeast, and the further northeast you go, the better you are, truly know how to BBQ. You're nuts you say? Not hardly. See, you have nice beef to start with, juicy, tender, melt in you mouth beef (I had some once and I'll never forget it) whereas we have shoe leather, tough, brittle, flavorless. If we can make the shoe leather palatable, that's ONE HELL OF A BBQ!


Good point. My parents were the same. They used to put an expended shell in the chamber to see if we'd check when we picked up the firearm. If not, look out. All us 4 kids turned out great, and morals are the center of the universe. BTW, I became a state volunteer firearms instructor due to my love of guns and being able to hit what I shot at. One shot, one kill.

Part of the problem is people emulating their parents. Take household A, they live a good upstanding life, work hard, and succeed. They have 2.3 kids and 1.6 dogs, all of whom emulate thier parents and become upstading citizens. Now take household B, they live off welfare and try to cheat the system at every turn. They have 4 inter-related kids by different spouses and collect child support from all of them to increase their income. Those kids grow up and do the same. Now household B outnumbers A by a substantial amount. My sister in law did this, 3 kids by different guys, never married. She was pulling down $1,600 a month, free and clear, never worked a day in her life and won't have to. She lives off the state (which is OK for short periods of time, it's original intent) and has everything paid, including medical, cable, housing, electricity, and food because she's a "low income qualified disadvantaged mother". Horsehockey! She's a welfare leech that should be banned from the system. So while my wife and I have no children (yet), she has 3 of them. Now I know they might not grow up to be like her, but the odds are good they will as they don't know another lifestyle or morals.

It's the blame game, and who's responsible. Now they're going after the gun manufacturers? Why, guns were meant to kill, no other reason, but they can't do it alone. If the converse is also true, shouldn't the winner of the Pulitzer Prize for literature give the award to the typewriter company? See, it doesn't pass the straight face test.

OH, BTW, CJDave for President!

'81 CJ-8 Scrambled!
GM151/SM465/NP205/7" Lift/33" Swampers/D44's F&R 4.10's & Lockrights
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