I wasn't going to post again, because this guy is going to kill himself.
That's his choice.
I just hope some of my friends or family members aren't in the area when he totals his Jeep...
Street racing is stupid, and only done by brats that have a small penis complex, and can't do anything correctly.
If they could do it correctly, you would see them at the race track trying to take on the REAL MEN.
--------------------------------

Here are a few things 'fishntruck' either missed, or incorrectly stated....

SPS makes the strongest connecting rod bolts, followed by ARP.
Milodon BUYS it's bolts from several different vendors, and quality varies.
All AMC connecting rod bolts are less than desirable.

NO AMC connecting rod from the factory is satisfactory for racing.
ONLY the 390 and 401 have steel connecting rods, but they are poor quality.

Only the 390 and 401 offered forged steel crankshafts. Surprisingly, the forged steel crankshafts are seriously tough units, and will withstand up to 1,000 horsepower.

Only the 390 and 401 came with four bolt main caps.
Not all 390's and 401's have four bolt main caps.
All had weak cast iron main caps.
All had weak main cap bolts, and will require a bottom end stud kit to race.

The oiling system of the 290 through 401 engines is pretty close to useless.
For high speed operations (4,000 RPM and above) you MUST get oil to the front drives,
IE, distributor drive, fuel pump eccentric, and the timing chain.
This is an easy modification, and can be done for as little as $5.

On the subject of timing chains,
USE A TRUE, DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN.
Not just a 'double roller'...
There IS a difference, and it means a lot above 4,000 RPM.

Consideration must be given to getting oil to the #7 & #8 connecting rods.
This last journal is absolutely starved for oil on all AMC V-8 engines.

Extra attention must be given to the camshaft oil galleries.
Often times, cam bearings will not be installed correctly, or the galleries themselves do not meet correctly.

Lifter bores are a concern on may AMC V-8's.
Oversized lifter bores are common on AMC engines, and incorrect lifters fit will destroy the camshaft, and even maybe the entire engine.

Push rods, rocker arms, rocker arm mounting, and valve guides are all inadequate for racing on AMC V-8's.
Push rods are small and weak.
Rocker arms are one of two verities, and both are inadequate for even short periods above 4,000 RPM.
Rocker arm mounts use too small diameter of bolts to hold the valve train geometry correctly.
Valve guides are knurled from the factory, and are usually not bronze wear surfaces.

AMC heads do just fine in the flow department, so normally all we do is clean them up.
Some will need to have machined to accept hardened valve seats.

AMC head castings are prone to thin spots due to lack of quality control.
Shifted sand castings, and use of wire to hold the moulding pieces together present particularly hard problems to overcome.
Odd casting pockets trap steam and create hot spots and misshaped head expansion.

AMC engine cylinder cases (engine blocks) have the same problems.
Shifted sand casting moulds, wires, and generally poor machining make for a disaster waiting to happen in may cases.
-----------------------------------

If you do decide to have an AMC V-8 built,
1. Have the engine cylinder case THOROUGHLY checked.
Sonic check for thickness in the cylinders.
The bottoms around the main webs in particular are often so very thin the block is junk.

2. Check the cylinder case deck surface.
Again, sonic check for thickness first, then check for cracks, especially radiating out from bolt holes.

3. Carefully inspect rods and crankshaft.
Thrust face surfaces are VERY important here.
ALL AMC V-8 RODS SHOULD HAVE NEW ROD BOLTS. PERIOD.

4. If you use studs, DO NOT BOTTOM THEM OUT!
If you bottom out main cap studs, it will crack the block, I guarantee it.

5. DO NOT "PORT OUT" THE HEADS.
AMC heads do just fine on their own, and they have hidden thin spots, so anytime you grind on them, it's dangerous.
Just clean up the port, and make sure you port match with the gasket and intake.

6. DO NOT skimp on the head job.
Use good components, and make sure the machining is done correctly.
Swirl polished valves add real usable ponies to the AMC engine, and cost is nothing.

7. Intake tract should be a set.
Use a matched set on the intake tract. Like the Edelbrock Cam, lifters, timing chain, intake and carb.
Make sure you use the headers they recommend.
The AMC engines are very sensitive to header tube diameter and length.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

one more disclaimer about killing others on the road
right after i put the 4.56 gears and detroit in the back of my cj last year( i allready had the 345 horse) i hit it hard.. and just like mentioened.. the front wheels come OFF the ground..pretty cool except since the one piece axles aren't exactly the same length, the torque steer pulls me into oncomming traffic...in second gear, only one tire lifts and it wasnt so bad... as far as a tranny.. welll.. no one believes it, but i ran a t-5 like that for over a year.. i never had ANY problems with it....except....when i pulled it out i noticed a foot long crack in the bellhousing.. the tranny still works good though
now i have an automatic(tf 727) and all my problems are gone...it just doesn't launch like it did... and thats ok... i haven't had to replace and drivline components in awhile...
oh yeah..dave... i'll tell you what REALLY makes them SH)*(& themselves when you are racing... pull the tires in the air and drift into their lane...

~~Elusive~~
tj-7 thingy../wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif..see it at http://www.jeepgod.net

 

I was going to stay out of this, but this thread has taken on a life of its own. You wanna go fast in an AMC, get a Gremlin, put a 401 in it, and have fun doing wheelies and going very, very fast.

Brad
ORC Land Use Section Editor
http://www.off-road.com/land

 

I have a balls to the wall 350. It is built for low end grunt, and has plenty. The guy that had my Jeep had the engine built and used an RV cam, hi-po heads, flat top pistons, and edelbrock intake and carb. It has a 9x1 compression ratio and I would not even bother wasting my time against a honda. I eat almost all of the cars that I have bothered to thrash my drivetrain against. A few hi-po sleepers and a few really nice hotrods. At any rate. If you are wanting to get the best of both worlds I do not know much about the 304 or the 360. My block is bored out to a 357. If I were you I would not even waste the time and money on a 304. Go to the junk yard and find a good block for about 100-150 and then buy a rebuilding book from Summit or something, maybe even one of those computer discs that let you swap out the cams, intakes, etc. Look through those and then build the engine yourself. If you have money to burn just call Summit, 1800-230-3030, and ask them to ship you there 360 cubic inch "THUMPER." And upgrade the hell out of your brakes!!!!!!!!!!! Ah, make sure you have a good bumper, really good. I have the performance package and have made a concious decision about what to do if I am going to get in a wreck. If I do not have strong feelings, positive ones, for the person I am going to hit, I WILL just run em' over. Try to aim for the trunk or something without people in it and hold the **** on. I figure that I am in a highoutput tank and I would appreciate there car taking as much of the energy out of my vehicle as possible rather than rolling it 10 times. Also buy a full cage if you do not already have one and attach it to the frame. 5-point harness, 4-point at the least are also a heck of a good idea. If you do build the engine, do aim for the low end power. I have a honda, they do not make power until 2500 RPM. If you give your Jeep an RV cam and a dual plane intake you will increase your low end power significantly, high end will improve a little. Most importantly, when you have instant horsepower from idle through 3500 you will be half way to the next light before the little rice burner reaches 3000RPM. The only way to beat another car in a Jeep is to take them as fast as possible. I drive my jeep everyday at 70-80 mph. I have a stiff lift, cage, harness' on order, slightly upgraded factory brakes. I can take anything in the mustang line light to light , so far, ( I have not raced a Cobra yet). One other thing you could do is to install a 1" spacer and a heat shield to the carb. The spacer is good at increasing air velocity resulting in a denser fuel mixture. Also throw away the paper filter and buy a K&N. The K&N was probably the best $40 spent on the engine. Next was a custom fan shroud at $75, still in production.

Good luck, drive safe, and do not swerve to avoid a wreck at high speeds unless you have an open field to drive through.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif 1976 CJ-7,CHEVY 350, 33'S, 3" LIFT, THAT COVERS MOST OF THE MAJOR STUFF /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

I have a balls to the wall 350. It is built for low end grunt, and has plenty. The guy that had my Jeep had the engine built and used an RV cam, hi-po heads, flat top pistons, and edelbrock intake and carb. It has a 9x1 compression ratio and I would not even bother wasting my time against a honda. I eat almost all of the cars that I have bothered to thrash my drivetrain against. A few hi-po sleepers and a few really nice hotrods. At any rate. If you are wanting to get the best of both worlds I do not know much about the 304 or the 360. My block is bored out to a 357. If I were you I would not even waste the time and money on a 304. Go to the junk yard and find a good block for about 100-150 and then buy a rebuilding book from Summit or something, maybe even one of those computer discs that let you swap out the cams, intakes, etc. Look through those and then build the engine yourself. If you have money to burn just call Summit, 1800-230-3030, and ask them to ship you there 360 cubic inch "THUMPER." And upgrade the hell out of your brakes!!!!!!!!!!! Ah, make sure you have a good bumper, really good. I have the performance package and have made a concious decision about what to do if I am going to get in a wreck. If I do not have strong feelings, positive ones, for the person I am going to hit, I WILL just run em' over. Try to aim for the trunk or something without people in it and hold the **** on. I figure that I am in a highoutput tank and I would appreciate there car taking as much of the energy out of my vehicle as possible rather than rolling it 10 times. Also buy a full cage if you do not already have one and attach it to the frame. 5-point harness, 4-point at the least are also a heck of a good idea. If you do build the engine, do aim for the low end power. I have a honda, they do not make power until 2500 RPM. If you give your Jeep an RV cam and a dual plane intake you will increase your low end power significantly, high end will improve a little. Most importantly, when you have instant horsepower from idle through 3500 you will be half way to the next light before the little rice burner reaches 3000RPM. The only way to beat another car in a Jeep is to take them as fast as possible. I drive my jeep everyday at 70-80 mph. I have a stiff lift, cage, harness' on order, slightly upgraded factory brakes. I can take anything in the mustang line light to light , so far, ( I have not raced a Cobra yet). One other thing you could do is to install a 1" spacer and a heat shield to the carb. The spacer is good at increasing air velocity resulting in a denser fuel mixture. Also throw away the paper filter and buy a K&N. The K&N was probably the best $40 spent on the engine. Next was a custom fan shroud at $75, still in production. I have no clue how fast you can make a jeep go but I will ask the guy at the next rod run, should be here in a month or so. He has a yellow with flames, nitro burnin, 900+ horsepower Willy's flat fender. Quite nice!!!

Good luck, drive safe, and do not swerve to avoid a wreck at high speeds unless you have an open field to drive through.

/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif 1976 CJ-7,CHEVY 350, 33'S, 3" LIFT, THAT COVERS MOST OF THE MAJOR STUFF /wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

 

ChaseJeep7

 

wow you guys are soo funny. i think you have the wrong idea of what i want to get out of my jeep. i dont want a race car. but i do want to be able to at least suprize the mustan when he starts reving his engine at me. i thank all you of you who posted the informatinon i leard alot. i dont think i will get as radical as some of the ideas posted. but i defenetly decide that i'm keeping my eye out for a 360 that i can rebuild in my garage. i'm also looking for a really tuff drive line. i think it would be pretty cool to lift the front wheels off the ground but thats not really my goal. dont worry i'm not going to kill myself or any one else. i'm pretty sensable and i know my driveing limits. and i know when to let of the gass. one more questiong will hedders for a 304 fit on a 360? thanks alot.

80 cj7 304..

 

Buddy of mine dumped a ton of change into his 304 to make it fast & it never did have the guts a 360 or 401 would have had. When the crank let go (at 7,800 R's), he ditched the 304 for a 360, which is what we told him to do in the first place (actually I said 390 or 401).

TEX

http://sites.netscape.net/gumboracing

 

Hello again. Something I forgot to mention that everyone who wants to truly know about building AMC engines for performance needs (has helped me so much w/ my engines) is Performance American Style published by AMC back in the 70's. Most AMC vendors can provide you with a reprint of the original. This book was far from being totally an advertisement. AMC tells all in there and admits exact limits in their designs. They tell of core shifts, 401 con rod bolts being weaker than earlier 390's, etc. They were very truthful and realistic about their drivetrain limitations.

Thank you, Teamrush about the info on the Milodon con rod bolts. I will know now.

PLEEEEASE, Teamrush, do not say I stated something incorrectly. I hate pissing contests....but be more tactful. I feel that I am fully qualified to talk about AMC/Jeep engines as that is all I have fooled with for the past 7 years. I personally own 5 401's and several 360's. You may want to send your post and mine to some SERIOUS AMC-only real-life racers and see what they say.

All 390 and 401 factory connecting rods are generally high quality and will generally withstand 8000 rpm after inspection, shot peening, magnafluxing. Connecting rod BOLTS should be replaced with top quality aftermarket ones.

NO 390's and 401's came with 4 bolt main caps from the factory. SOME (very rare) special-made 1970 360 (yes 360) blocks had PROVISIONS (not installed) for 4 bolt mains.

The 2 bolt thicker main caps on 390's and 401's are fine for all but the most extreme racing.

The oiling design could be better, but is far from useless (please make sure person you ask is independent from AMC parts vendor) I have had no problems up to 6,000 rpm with a well maintained good condition engine.

It is true that the last journal (con rods 7 and 8) is where oil starvation will occur under extreme stressed conditions.

Factory stock push rods and rocker arms (of both varieties) in good condition seem to be quite safe up to 5500 rpm.

You have added many other VERY helpful points that I did not cover in my first post. I agree with everything else that you have stated besides above.

Respectfully,
Russell

 

Fishntruck,

You are new here, so I'm going to give you a clue...

I own a custom engine building business.
I've been doing this sence '83 when I bought the business.
Did you miss the part where I said that the crankshaft will withstand up to 1,000 horsepower?
How many people do you think there are that can make 1,000 horse power?
We can TEST well past 1,000 horse power...

Just stop and think about that one for a minute before you say anything else...
--------------------------------

Now, would you still like to send your posts, and my posts to a 'REAL' AMC guy, say Jack Ryan, head engineer for AMC for 13 years? (68 to 81)
He was also the chief of the racing effort from (68 to 74).

I have his e-mail, and we have been talking about some things.
He's building AMC racing engines again, and he's been asking about our digital fuel injection for his racing engines.

I'm sure he won't mind giving an opinion...
--------------------------------

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

I thought the title to this forum was OFF-ROAD and not ROAD and TRACK. You're upset with the negative responses. What do you expect? These are off road guys wanting to build a better off road vehicle. It would be like reading the "performance" related forums and asking them how to make a better off road vehicle.

The Moral majority is neither

 

This is not a threat board. Teamrush quote 08/01/00 - "Just stop and think about that one for a minute before you say anything else..." Yes sir, I have heard of Mr. Jack Ryan. Please send him our posts and the following people (if easily traceable to their current work...they may not have the same name) that I know Mr. Ryan is familiar with...Booth-Arons Racing Enterprises..(seems like someone in an earlier post in July knew where Mr. Arons was I think)..also Holman and Moody... and Roy Woods Racing. All of these worked with Mr. Ryan during the factory racing effort and did extensive testing and work.

Like I said in my earlier post I hate pissing contests...nothing more will be said even if you try to make me mad... I just want respect for EVERYONE (certainly not just myself but you and everyone else too) in differences of opinion/fact..even if most of the board knows they are wrong...we are here to learn from each other's experiences... that is what the board is all about.

Russell

 

hey bucko. if you noticed lots of guys posted saying that they have hi performance jeeps that can go pretty fast. if you read closely. i didn't not say i wanted to make a strictaly race jeep or any kind of race jeep. just one that had more power and one that could hold its own at the redlight. thats all. and i think there alot of jeepers out there that feel the same way. seeing how over 400 people have view this thread in the last few days.

80 cj7 304..

 

mikecj7,
I wasnt going to post on this whole ridiculus thread, but its like a train wreck, I just cant turn a way from it.
Every time I see you idiots(I dont care what flippin car your driving) staging at a stop light, reving your motors, and using the streets for racing, It makes me wish for mandatory revoking of your Drivers license, if caught drag racing on the streets(even once). Your gonna kill someone, and it will more than likely be an innocent bystander. Grow up!!! Race at a drag strip, like a true speed junky worth his salt already knows. And just to keep things fair, I wont go 4 wheelin in any public park sand boxes, even if a Honda revs his motor at me,WOooooooooo.

Jeff
89 Wrangler
"Jeep" Build one, and youll understand!

Just
Exciting
Extreme
Performance

 

Amen Jeff, Amen!!!!
I used to participate in street racing to some degree (many years ago) and I have seen someone die doing it! All that it proves is that you aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Today I have a beautiful 1968 RS/SS Camaro that has more money in the engine than I want to think about. Every once in a while I drive it to work and it's amazing how many people rev their engines (including the yuppies driving Lexus's) and want to race. I love ignoring them just because I know I can whoop their butts. If they keep at it I'll tell that I gotta see $1000 that they are willing to lose to race on the streets, or tell them to show up at the local dragstrip. I'll be glad to kick their butts there and if I can't beat ya, more power to you. That $1000 thing makes people shut up really fast. I wouldn't race them on the street even if they did come up with it on the spot like that. I'm way past my high school days (too many years to think about) and frankly, I don't care about the little punks. I have a fast car and I know it and that's all that matters to me. KEEP IT OFF THE STREET!!! Sorry if this isn't what you consider "positive" feedback, but it's positive to me.

'75 CJ5,258,T18a,4.27's,33's,On-board air,Warn 8274

 

hey guess what i was at a red light tonight. and this honda was reving his engine. so i was like ok i'm going to race this rice rocket and i dont care if i break ujoints or axle shafts or anything. so i took my engine up to 4 grand and when the light turned green i droped the clutch. and off we went. my front wheels came off the ground. then out of no where an old lady walking a poodle with 3 legs walked out in front of me so i swerved to miss her i nailed the dog and went in to oncomeing trafic. then i swerved over to the side walk where some after school day care was getting out. i plowed through about 10 eight year old kids before i crashed into a church and comming to a stop. its a good thing i have a grill guard and some and head light covers cause that poodle or some of those kids might have hurt my jeep. well i got out of the church and cought up to the honda and raced him at the next light. no one got killed this time though. what and adrenaline rush you old farts that dont know how to have fun any more and live a little should try it some time.

god why does everyone think i'm some psychotic street racer out to kill every one. none of this post is true. so dont get your panties in a bunch.

80 cj7 304..

 

Well, Mike, all I can say is: if it looks like a billy goat, climbs like a billy goat and is sure footed like a billy goat then chances are it can never be a cheetah./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

 

Mike, that wasn't even funny. It shows just how immature you are. My panties are bunched.

Thanks, Ray

 

Mike,
When you posted here you asked for opinions. People on this board aren't shy about giving their opinions, either. We also don't want one of our own to end up in a bag. Most of us have had the feeling of being "bulletproof" at one time or another in our lives; most of the time we didn't listen or got pissed when others told us things we didn't want to hear. Then, at some point, we realized that the people who were telling us "no" actually knew what they were talking about. Everyone can benefit from experiences that others have had. Let someone else do the dumb things, and learn from their experiences. Since you asked the question about how fast you can make a Jeep go, you have gotten useful information on AMC engines in addition to opinions, mine included, telling you not to race. If you insist on racing, no one here can stop you, and since you're probably getting all worked up by all the "negative" posts, you're probably going to do it even more. I really don't even know why I'm bothering posting again; I stand by my origional post telling you to get a race car to race with, and agree with H8 that you and the others racing should be dealt with severely by Johnny Law. Racing on the street is just plain stupid, and that's a fact that you're going to have to face. Build the Jeep and use it as a Jeep, or sell the Jeep and get a Camaro or Mustang. And race at the 1/4, not on the streets.

Ken

 

It's called "Young Men's Immortality Syndrome". You either grow out of it or you die out of it.

Certainly you can make a Jeep go fast, very fast. But to safely go fast, you have to be able to stop fast while maintaining control, or corner at high speed..... and you can't make a Jeep do either one and still be a Jeep.

-Dana

CanYouFixTheSpaceBarOnMyKeyboard?

 

Hey mike,
For a lot of us "old farts" who need to "live a little", we have been there, done that. Then all of a sudden we got smart and figured out from our experiences that life is too short to be stupid. I can't count how many times I have cheated my own death and someone elses and I'm not particularly proud of it. I would love for you to "live a little" as much as I have and not fill your pants! I still love to do some of the crazy things I did, but I'm doing them in an environment with a little more control than I did in the past. Come down to Bandimere and us old farts will show you how to "live a little" the right way. I'll bet you've never experienced 1320 feet (1/4 mile) of fun in under 11 seconds in a car that can drive the streets all day! One cool thing about us "old farts" is our wallets tend to be fatter than our younger days and can afford to "live a little" at a faster rate. I'll bet you've never run a snowmobile off a 30 foot cornice at 20 mph on purpose! Don't even tell me to live a little, because I do it every chance possible. Of course if you want to remain stupid, it just adds to the theory of natural selection! And remember, if you can't handle criticism, don't ask.

'75 CJ5,258,T18a,4.27's,33's,On-board air,Warn 8274

 

Mike,
Here's your addrenalin rush.
I only affected my own equiptment when I rolled. And you know what I didnt think I was gonna roll, but I did anyway. You dont think your gonna affect anyone, but you very well may do something along the assinine scenario you fabricated earlier, the very next time you mash the skinny pedal at a street light.
If you are really such an addrenalin junky, why cant you hike up your skirt and get down to the sand drags or mud boggs you were talking about in your area, and see where you accidentally misplaced your nads. You will no doubt meet the people you need to meet to get that HP you want so baddly, as they will be the ones embarrassing you in front of the crowds. There are so many venues out there to go out and scare the piss out of yourself, all you have to do is muster enough courage to give it a try. Dont go through life being a wuss, pretending to be something your not. The real competition is at the track.
Good luck HERO!!!

Jeff
89 Wrangler
"Jeep" Build one, and youll understand!

Just
Exciting
Extreme
Performance

 

Anybody have any suggestions on how I can make my 36 foot motorhome with a Ford V10 go any faster? It would be nice to blow those same Hondas away.

Is it done yet??!!

 

Wanna got the fastest on the least horsepower??? Get a pilots liscense. 150Hp @ 2700 RPM on 320CI = 120-130 mph in a $30,000 airplane.


Florida Mud CJ-5
'77 RB304, t-150 D20 4" 35" swampers

 

i wasnt going to get into this pissin contest.. but..
go H8.. YOU HAVE SUMMED UP WHAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING.. thru my laughter..

survival is instinct, but living takes guts

http://www.jeepgod.net