RRich
Rich, I had a similar site on my webpage from the same guy, but the link didn't work for about 3 months now. I see he changed IP carriers now. I tried that setup on my 225 engine and it worked great. I used the 7018 rods. They're not too hard to start as he says, if you practice with them enough. Produces a nice weld. I used a 105 amp alternator from an old buick with power everything. Got it from the local U-pull for $15. If you have room under the hood, its a very good investment. I used it on my Jeepster once and a friends Jeep also.
Bill
Bill
He admitted he's not experienced with arc welding, so it's understandable he had trouble getting an arc started. 7018's a little harder to start, but not that bad.
I wonder how big the cables really have to be - big 50 foot cables and a hood take up lots of valuable space. The 105 alternators don't use wire anywhere near that big.
Sounds like my next project.
I wonder how big the cables really have to be - big 50 foot cables and a hood take up lots of valuable space. The 105 alternators don't use wire anywhere near that big.
Sounds like my next project.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, good information:
May be my next project is to re-design my battery charger so it will do both. I talked with a guy in East LA a few years ago who told me that an alternator had to be rewound to do this. Now I think maybe he was protecting the $400.00 he wanted to do it. He also ran an electric drill from it so have to do some experimenting.(alternator=alternating current). I think this would be an AC welder.The diodes removed.Also you may be carefull as you are no longer working with 12 volts with the regulator removed. I made this charger right before Y2K (yep I was one of the "prepared" ones. ) I ask a friend after it was over if he knew anyone who wanted 2 tons of dried food, 20- 5 gallon cans of gas and a years supply of Viagra. He still jokes me about it today. Anyhow the old edger worked really well for this application. I have used it many times. The pulley will have to be smaller for the welder though because it boggs down with a dead battery now, imagine a dead short.
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May be my next project is to re-design my battery charger so it will do both. I talked with a guy in East LA a few years ago who told me that an alternator had to be rewound to do this. Now I think maybe he was protecting the $400.00 he wanted to do it. He also ran an electric drill from it so have to do some experimenting.(alternator=alternating current). I think this would be an AC welder.The diodes removed.Also you may be carefull as you are no longer working with 12 volts with the regulator removed. I made this charger right before Y2K (yep I was one of the "prepared" ones. ) I ask a friend after it was over if he knew anyone who wanted 2 tons of dried food, 20- 5 gallon cans of gas and a years supply of Viagra. He still jokes me about it today. Anyhow the old edger worked really well for this application. I have used it many times. The pulley will have to be smaller for the welder though because it boggs down with a dead battery now, imagine a dead short.
No I haven't towed it yet, afraid the little wheels would get ripped of on the RR tracks and bumps. I have thrown it in the back of my truck a few times. I used it till I finaly got the charging system working in my halfcab charged the battery 4 or 5 times. If I can get it to weld and output 110 volts AC I'll put it right under the hood. The guy in east LA mentioned above used the same alternator for the battery system as he did to weld with I just have to duplicate what he did. Anybody can now, I f it works I'll post back here if someone don't beat me to it cause I'm working on a big mess right now. Megga Jeepster mess......going going soon gone.
Seems like the intent has been lost here.
Sure, if you eliminate the diodes you can get 3 phase AC - around 35 volts RMS.
Who has a drill that needs 35 volts 3 phase? I suppose you could light up your camp with 35 volt bulbs -- if you can find them.
But don't expect it to come out the output terminal, you'll need 3 terminals, one for each phase. The alternator is wired in a "Y" configuration, each leg has 2 diodes, making it a full wave 3 phase bridge.
If you want more voltage than that, the windings have to be rewired in series. Then there's the frequency problem, most AC things need 60 cycles. How are you going to control, even measure the frequency? Most motors will burn if 60 cycles isn't kept fairly close.
The article says it's for welding purposes - on board emergency welding. DC's lots better to weld with than AC - especially if you aren't skilled at welding.
Yup, the voltage is allowed to climb unregulated - it'll go to about 35 volts - about the same as any other welder. Many welders go as high as 75 volts open circuit - Who's afraid of them?
Trying to get an arc started at 12 volts is not easy - else you could just use your car battery and jumper cables. Try it!
It's intent is for emergency trail repairs, not really a welder to modify your suspension etc., not intended as an AC generator, and it isn't even intended to trim your lawn!
Sure, if you eliminate the diodes you can get 3 phase AC - around 35 volts RMS.
Who has a drill that needs 35 volts 3 phase? I suppose you could light up your camp with 35 volt bulbs -- if you can find them.
But don't expect it to come out the output terminal, you'll need 3 terminals, one for each phase. The alternator is wired in a "Y" configuration, each leg has 2 diodes, making it a full wave 3 phase bridge.
If you want more voltage than that, the windings have to be rewired in series. Then there's the frequency problem, most AC things need 60 cycles. How are you going to control, even measure the frequency? Most motors will burn if 60 cycles isn't kept fairly close.
The article says it's for welding purposes - on board emergency welding. DC's lots better to weld with than AC - especially if you aren't skilled at welding.
Yup, the voltage is allowed to climb unregulated - it'll go to about 35 volts - about the same as any other welder. Many welders go as high as 75 volts open circuit - Who's afraid of them?
Trying to get an arc started at 12 volts is not easy - else you could just use your car battery and jumper cables. Try it!
It's intent is for emergency trail repairs, not really a welder to modify your suspension etc., not intended as an AC generator, and it isn't even intended to trim your lawn!
G
Rich, I find myself searching your post. Good points, good info, good writing. Have you thought of a career in one of the wheelin mags?
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Rich: I apologize if you feel I got off track a little here with the edger and snowblower jokes, I was just having fun while here.I haven't lost my intent at all though. I would very much like to duplicate the alternator-gen- welder that the guy showed me in East LA. I seen it work! I don't know how he did it and was just thinking out loud here. It may not take much more to produce than the welder.
I am trying to help here not poke fun. So I apologize.
That being said, would the freq be relative to the rpms of the alternator? As far as measuring it I would use one of my meters set to HZ (FREQUENCY)and watch the RPMs
here it is pluged into the wall outlet.Do you know how to wind the alternator to get the 110 volts? anywhere from 40 to 100 HZ should be safe to run power tools for a short period.You ask how I would control the freq, I could use something like this inverter but that would be expensive for anyone else here except me because I have these tools and devices already.
If I can use these devices and tools and ability that I have to make the device I described and post that info here I believe many may appreciate it. The welder Idea is great for emg I agree, I have a mig w/gas, an ac/dc and torch already but it sure would be great to have on my truck if thats all that comes of this. Maybe my idea can't be done simple but I sure have fun. If anybody has the info for the device I am speaking of I would sure appreciate it but not enough to pay the guy $400.00 for it. I think it would be better to have than just a welder if its easy enough to make but for me its not even an experiment yet. If it works Ya Hooo, if not, oh well. And once again thanks to you RRich you "Da Man" Like many others here you have help build a large part of my Jeepsters.
Thank you!
I am trying to help here not poke fun. So I apologize.
That being said, would the freq be relative to the rpms of the alternator? As far as measuring it I would use one of my meters set to HZ (FREQUENCY)and watch the RPMs
here it is pluged into the wall outlet.Do you know how to wind the alternator to get the 110 volts? anywhere from 40 to 100 HZ should be safe to run power tools for a short period.You ask how I would control the freq, I could use something like this inverter but that would be expensive for anyone else here except me because I have these tools and devices already.
If I can use these devices and tools and ability that I have to make the device I described and post that info here I believe many may appreciate it. The welder Idea is great for emg I agree, I have a mig w/gas, an ac/dc and torch already but it sure would be great to have on my truck if thats all that comes of this. Maybe my idea can't be done simple but I sure have fun. If anybody has the info for the device I am speaking of I would sure appreciate it but not enough to pay the guy $400.00 for it. I think it would be better to have than just a welder if its easy enough to make but for me its not even an experiment yet. If it works Ya Hooo, if not, oh well. And once again thanks to you RRich you "Da Man" Like many others here you have help build a large part of my Jeepsters.
Thank you!
No apology needed, I just thought the pizazz of the article was lost.
I think it's the Premier Welder that's popular for an underhood trail welder - around $700 I think. I would guess this is essentially the same thing.
I've used them a couple times -- sure are handy. Never needed it myself, but I used someone else's to help someone else. He He - at a rock crawler event I had guys lining up for repairs! And one time at a SCORE event once they found out my friend had a welder on his truck -- guess what!
For years and years Popular Mechanics etc have had ads for plans for converting an alternator to an AC generator. If I remember correctly, they disconnected the 3 windings and put them in series -- without the diodes. Then it depends on the crankshaft pulley to alternator pully ratios as to how fast the engine has to run to get 60 cps.
Most 110 volt devices need 60 cps +/- about 10%. Most everything except light bulbs and heater elements. Induction and even series wound motors need it, transformers need it too.
I use a decent inverter for 110 volt devices. They are more efficient, inexpensive, and not RPM dependant. But they won't weld a broken spring perch.
The easiest way to weld is with DC - using the diodes keeps it DC. With DC you don't need as much current as AC for the same joint.
Mainly the alternator is full fielded without restriction to produce more voltage. You need around 35 volts to be able to decently strike an arc. This'll give it to you.
Here's another article about making the welder.
http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html
I thought everyone might find spending less than $100 better than spending $700 for a pre-made on-board welder - especially when it's so simple to do.
Actually, it doesn't even have to be a GM alternator -- most any would work. Just find a powerful one. Some of the new GM's are really powerful yet nice and small. All you need to do is eliminate the regulator and provide field current to get them to go full blast. The amount of current out will depend on your arc and engine R's. Don't let the rod stick -- else you'll smoke it.
The cables -- Battery jumper cables should be fine. Usually jumper cables are nice and thick -- but look closely, the insulation's thick to fool you. Many times the wire inside is only a #10! You could probably do fine with a couple hunks of thinly insulated #6 - it wouldn't take up much valuable space. You don't need heavy insulation- it's low voltage!
The helmet - I've seen collapsable ones, mostly canvas except for the faceplate, again, compact.
It's going to be interesting figuring how to cram the welding alternator, on-board air and still leave enough room for the "possibly someday" supercharger on my Rubi. It's tight already!
I think it's the Premier Welder that's popular for an underhood trail welder - around $700 I think. I would guess this is essentially the same thing.
I've used them a couple times -- sure are handy. Never needed it myself, but I used someone else's to help someone else. He He - at a rock crawler event I had guys lining up for repairs! And one time at a SCORE event once they found out my friend had a welder on his truck -- guess what!
For years and years Popular Mechanics etc have had ads for plans for converting an alternator to an AC generator. If I remember correctly, they disconnected the 3 windings and put them in series -- without the diodes. Then it depends on the crankshaft pulley to alternator pully ratios as to how fast the engine has to run to get 60 cps.
Most 110 volt devices need 60 cps +/- about 10%. Most everything except light bulbs and heater elements. Induction and even series wound motors need it, transformers need it too.
I use a decent inverter for 110 volt devices. They are more efficient, inexpensive, and not RPM dependant. But they won't weld a broken spring perch.
The easiest way to weld is with DC - using the diodes keeps it DC. With DC you don't need as much current as AC for the same joint.
Mainly the alternator is full fielded without restriction to produce more voltage. You need around 35 volts to be able to decently strike an arc. This'll give it to you.
Here's another article about making the welder.
http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html
I thought everyone might find spending less than $100 better than spending $700 for a pre-made on-board welder - especially when it's so simple to do.
Actually, it doesn't even have to be a GM alternator -- most any would work. Just find a powerful one. Some of the new GM's are really powerful yet nice and small. All you need to do is eliminate the regulator and provide field current to get them to go full blast. The amount of current out will depend on your arc and engine R's. Don't let the rod stick -- else you'll smoke it.
The cables -- Battery jumper cables should be fine. Usually jumper cables are nice and thick -- but look closely, the insulation's thick to fool you. Many times the wire inside is only a #10! You could probably do fine with a couple hunks of thinly insulated #6 - it wouldn't take up much valuable space. You don't need heavy insulation- it's low voltage!
The helmet - I've seen collapsable ones, mostly canvas except for the faceplate, again, compact.
It's going to be interesting figuring how to cram the welding alternator, on-board air and still leave enough room for the "possibly someday" supercharger on my Rubi. It's tight already!
G
Hi all.
Excelent topic althogh a bit off (jeepster)
There are really good writeups here, so good that you have moved me to register in the forum as user and write a bit ;-)
Just some thogths about the weldarternators and generators:
1- serial winding motors (motors with brushes) and pure resistive loads are non frecuency dependant. They will work even at pure DC !!! It includes from ligth bulbs (not fluorescent tubes), heaters (without fans), and of course any "noisy" electric motor as vacum cleaners, cooking mixers, hand drills, grinders, saws, sanders, etc. In the other hand, machines as garage compressors, fans, etc will not work with DC.
2- Transformers will do their job independently of the frecuency (if in the reasonable range 30-200 hz). what changes is the efficiency. If frecuency is lower, the transformer will heat more.
3- the induction motors (brushless) will also operate with diferent frecuency, but will change the speed depending on the value. Again the efficiency will depend of the actual frecuency.
4- the value of the voltage will depend of the voltage applied to the rotor field and the ratio of turns beetween the primary field in the rotor and the stator coils, and therefore, the frecuency and power depends of the rpm. In theory, serial conection of the windings of the alternator would multiply the voltage BUT not the amps! another thing to be considered is that the 3 windings are out of phase, so, the real value of the voltage and amps will be QUITE diferent as the expected !!!
So, my conclusions are:
a-the alternator can be used as generator (using only one coil before the diodes and a transformer from 15 to 220 or 110). As we are using only one phase, the transformer can be normal, but the maximum power will be a 1/3 of the total available in the alternator (35 amp x 14 volts= 500 watts in a 100 Amp alternator). It will be enough for most of the medium electric tools (not for big grinders or big disc saws) and camping applications (for best results and stability of the output voltage, I would sugest to keep the regulator and therefore, this application is compatible with the stock alternator).
b-I don´t find an easy way to use the alternator for welding in AC connecting the coils in series increasing the voltage, but I´ll check it soon
Sorry if my english is not perfect.
Best regards,
Jose
Excelent topic althogh a bit off (jeepster)
There are really good writeups here, so good that you have moved me to register in the forum as user and write a bit ;-)
Just some thogths about the weldarternators and generators:
1- serial winding motors (motors with brushes) and pure resistive loads are non frecuency dependant. They will work even at pure DC !!! It includes from ligth bulbs (not fluorescent tubes), heaters (without fans), and of course any "noisy" electric motor as vacum cleaners, cooking mixers, hand drills, grinders, saws, sanders, etc. In the other hand, machines as garage compressors, fans, etc will not work with DC.
2- Transformers will do their job independently of the frecuency (if in the reasonable range 30-200 hz). what changes is the efficiency. If frecuency is lower, the transformer will heat more.
3- the induction motors (brushless) will also operate with diferent frecuency, but will change the speed depending on the value. Again the efficiency will depend of the actual frecuency.
4- the value of the voltage will depend of the voltage applied to the rotor field and the ratio of turns beetween the primary field in the rotor and the stator coils, and therefore, the frecuency and power depends of the rpm. In theory, serial conection of the windings of the alternator would multiply the voltage BUT not the amps! another thing to be considered is that the 3 windings are out of phase, so, the real value of the voltage and amps will be QUITE diferent as the expected !!!
So, my conclusions are:
a-the alternator can be used as generator (using only one coil before the diodes and a transformer from 15 to 220 or 110). As we are using only one phase, the transformer can be normal, but the maximum power will be a 1/3 of the total available in the alternator (35 amp x 14 volts= 500 watts in a 100 Amp alternator). It will be enough for most of the medium electric tools (not for big grinders or big disc saws) and camping applications (for best results and stability of the output voltage, I would sugest to keep the regulator and therefore, this application is compatible with the stock alternator).
b-I don´t find an easy way to use the alternator for welding in AC connecting the coils in series increasing the voltage, but I´ll check it soon
Sorry if my english is not perfect.
Best regards,
Jose
G
Welcome aboard Jose!
I think we will find you an asset ot the forum, most new post are of the 'where can I buy a Jeepster lift kit' type, I think you just posted the coolest first post i've read.
Make yourself home here, kick off your boots, get comfortable and give us some more tech post!
![Image]()
...and don't worry about your english. Most of us can't type letters in the right order anyway so you'll fit right in!
I think we will find you an asset ot the forum, most new post are of the 'where can I buy a Jeepster lift kit' type, I think you just posted the coolest first post i've read.
Make yourself home here, kick off your boots, get comfortable and give us some more tech post!
...and don't worry about your english. Most of us can't type letters in the right order anyway so you'll fit right in!
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