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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 42 Ford flat fender jeep with a 225 v6. The vehicle came with a dual point Malory distributor and I don't have the stock one.
The Malory is tired and needs to be rebuilt. I was contemplating switching to a HEI 231 v6 odd fire set-up. Is there any advantage
to the dual point system over the standard points or the HEI? Is it worth switching over to some other set-up.

 

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The dual point distributor was a early 70's invention.....it gives you increased dwell time. The points were offset in relation to the distributor shaft's cam lobes. That is, one would close, as usual......the other a certain number of degrees later......the "lead" set of points would open ......but the "lag" set of points would remain closed until the lobe opened them.....hence your coil would have more "dwell" time to build a charge. It is pretty much antiquated in comparison to an HEI .....which can develope much more voltage than your otherwise conventional setup. It is a neat souvenier from a more user friendly time in automotive history.....another rare find is a "Double-Life" distributor ......it too was a dual point .....but not for increased dwell time.....it was for extended point life..it was supposed to do an "every other spark" thingie for each set of points...I never saw one.....but they were supposed to be impossible to set up correctly unless you had a distributor machine.

Well .... Dave, and others, had to make me "not correct" about the 70's invention part of my post here.....I should have correctly state "reached the aftermarket"......since the dual point was the "hot setup" at that time and was not available for any domestic vehicle (passenger car) OEM at that time.
Get an HEI
GeeAea

 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
One really good thing about dual points is that they enable you to be twice as happy when you get rid of them.

 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif The Dual Point Distributor was the answer to the need for more intense fire in modern, post-WWII high-compression V8 engines. Chrysler began putting in dual points with the introduction of the their '51 Chrysler Hemi 331 (boy did I have a love affair with those engines!)/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifand scads of after-market, dual-point distributors were available....some even had dual coils./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif As GA pointed out, the whole idea was to get more "closed points" or "saturation time" for the coil to build up before it was called upon to fire again. As he mentioned, the points were arranged to have one JUST OPENING when the other was JUST CLOSING....giving the shortest possible interval. On the big NAtural-Gassers, as in stationary engines of HUGE porportions, they used a coil per jug, and the distributor had as many sets of points as there were cylinders. It was in efect, a distributor on the PRIMARY side. That was to get more spark to burn the stubborn natural gas better. NONE of those systems can hold a candle(actually a spark plug) to the HEI 55,000 volt setup. Dual points are now consigned to the Valhalla of motordom; yesterday's technology; in a world that was; in so many ways; a heck of a lot better/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif than the one we now live in. We had a war hero in the white house instead of a lying pervert;/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gifright was always right, and wrong was always wrong, and patriotism meant something. But don't get me started./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

CJDave
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
HEI - Highly Effective Ignition. We even use stock HEI on competition machines up to about 7,500 RPM. When I parted out a '76 Jimmy, the HEI is the only thing I wouldn't sell. Don't really need a spare, but I've got one. /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 

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I won't get long and wordy.....

Electronic ignition beats points hands down.

Loose nut behind the wheel
Another right-wing conservative.....
Born and raised in Jeep-Town
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
One thing I can guess from all these responses, is, that the majority of you folks are a lot younger than I am. I had single points and dual points in the 30's, the 40's, and beyond. I still run points, on vehicles that I use for off-road, in very remote locations. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of the 'modern-way' for 'on-highway', and for my Jeep that I use for just 'casual' off-roading, close to civilization. But, for very remote excursions, where I mostly have to take care of myself, and where I have to carry spares for whatever I feel might need spares, and where I might need 'boon-dock' help from local natives, I still use basic carburetors and points. They are almost fool-proof, no matter where. Even though the majority of you folks might not agree with me, I believe that the owner of a 42 GPW might understand. (And, I also happen to have a 42 GPW, still with a 134 .)
So, what would I say to this person?? If the vehicle is going to be used for the street, and casual off-roading, go with the modern stuff. If it's a vehicle that is going to see, maybe, a few hundred-to-a-thousand miles per year, and if you tow it to where you play, why not keep the points?
And, to anyone that might want to part with a dual-point mallory, please let me know. Especially, if you happen to have them for pre-60's-back-to-the-30's vehicles.

bob
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Where are you going to find a set of Mallory points in the boondocks? I can't find any in the town I live in. I think it would be easier to find an HEI module.

 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There are two realistic ways to go. I have both on different vehicle. The first is to use an HEI. I have it on
my '59 CJ-5 with 231 V-6 and have been very happy. I also always carry and extra module with me.
Dead module = dead vehicle. The other way I went on a 225 v-6 engine dyno'd at 500 hp, yes that's right
500, is to stay with stock delco points distributor (blueprinted) and add an MSD 6a ignition system. They
are expensive for the oddfire, about $200 because the oddfire requires a special box.
The advantage is easier starting, better spark control, smoother power bands, and the points are simply
a trigger Which means the points will last for years. And if there is a problem with the unit you can hook
your points up normally and still drive away. The HEI is obviously cheaper but can be difficult to find.
There is a third alternative which is to simply replace the distributor with stock remanufactured unit. Should
cost about $30-$45 dollars. Make sure you get the delco unit as it is superior and uses standard GM
points found at any parts housw. Good luck. Nickmil.

 

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Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

500 hp!!!! How did you get so much out of so little? Twin turbos..........supercharger (GM 6 V71 perhaps) driven at 50% above crankshaft speed? 115 AV fuel? All kidding aside .........how does one get 500 hp out of 225?

GeeAea
 

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Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif GeeAea....you haven't been paying attention. Back in the fifties when Weiand, and McGurk, and Offenhauser, and Edelbrock made the first hot rod multi-carb manifolds, we always figured it this way: If you had 125 HP with ONE carb, with three you'd have 375 HP! Heck, it just stands to reason. Add a Mallory, and you had another hundred. It just stands to reason. You know, Bobbikins is right about the boondocks, but there is a good chance that the old GM clunker in the bramblebushes has an HEI; heck, it's BEEN twenty-five years! Besides, carrying the parts for an HEI is no tougher than points style when you git down to it.

CJDave
 

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Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

The 27 ft timing chain Ford SOHC 427 GT 40 that did 24 hrs at Lemans cranked out 700hp .........but to get it to last 24 hrs ........it was "detuned" to 500hp............that's a 427 SOHC............not a 225 V6 .........I wanna know!!!!
/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif
GeeAea
 

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Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif They have a dyno test now that measures engine BHP in just a few seconds. It would be possible to build a grenade engine which theoretically could "touch" 500 BHP fot three seconds....that is 500 "Theoretical" HP, not delivering that kind of power on any sustained pull. We once set up a Briggs And Stratton 4 HP engine on a controlled test with 80% load. It went 31 HRS, before it was completely worn out. There was not enough compression left to run. On a lawn mower, it would have run for ten years. It got a chance to cool while you dumped the bag; got the hose out of the way; drank a coke; etc. So yeah, it's POSSIBLE......and the key word is...possible. Not necessarily practical, or even halfway practical./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

Thanks for the input. My basic goal is not mega-horse power but reliability and sure firing and start-ups as well as set and forget technology. I think I will go with the HEI set-up and just carry an extra modual. Now comes the task of finding and setting up a HEI distributor. What is the best option:
1. find a distributor at a wrecking yard and have it rebuilt.
2. purchase a new distributor and have it modified for the 225. Found one at Auto Zone for $125.00 (no exchange needed).
 

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Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

I got my 231 odd-fire HEI from a wrecking yard. I then took it to a tune-up pro who found the shaft needed replacing. He then recurved the mechanical advance to more in line with the 225's specs. The 231 has a different curve and can shorten the life of your crankshaft if left as is. Also the vacuum can was replaced with a tamer one. It really ran great after he was done. If you would like another alternative, Pertonix makes a kit for the odd-fire that will convert the stock points distributor to electronic. People that have gone that route seem to be pleased.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: HEI vs. Dual Point Malory-500hp?

Something you guys have to realize is, as was mentioned, this motor is not designed to run the Lemans,
It was built to go real fast for a maximum of 5 to 10 minutes then be cooled down and shut off. It has more
modifications than I care to list here. I have to run it $5 a gallon race fuel that has alcohol in it. Also remember
I said engine dyno'd not chassis dyno'd. That's flywheel horsepower not rear wheel horsepower. Big difference.
With todays technology it's not hard to do just expensive. Ever heard of GM's 502-502? Yes it is a big block
but you are talking about streetable 502 hp. The v-6 is not streetable. In fact it's scary as hell in the M38a1
sand Jeep it's in now. If anyone wants a ride next time I'm at Sand Lake I'll be happy to oblige as soon as I
put the tranny back together and do a little more chassis tweaking. Nickmil.
 
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