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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at replacing my stock 83 cj ignition coil with a better one,and i'd love to eliminate the resister wire,and just run a straight 12volts to it,but i dont want the whole tfi setup,is there a coil that fits this bill?tia

jsjps
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
o.k,thats logical,after installing the '84 ford 460 with ecc, cap, rotor, base,wires,(i printed your entire post on the upgrade last night)and go to install the tfi coil,can i run a 12 guage full 12v wire to it?also do i have to pull the motorcraft dist apart to put the ford 460 base on it?and what do i gap my plugs to after the upgrade?....(1980 360)thanx so much.

jsjps
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanx again TR,i'm getting closer to doing this whole deal,i still dont understand about the resister wire question,because of the below artical posted by you a few posts down.(i've just copied and pasted it).thanx again for your thorough answers.

The TFI coil will work with ALL of the DuraSpark modules. It's an odd looking thing, but can be mounted
in any orientation (even up side down).
The TFI coil uses a full 12 volts, and doesn't use a resistor of any kind.

jsjps
 

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I see that the 78 harness has the resistance in it, but not only do I have a 76 with the full upgrade(360) but I also rebuilt my harness myself with mostly 14 and 12 gauge wires without adding resistance (at least not on purpose) am I asking for trouble or what?Thanks

Ben

 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You hit the nail on the head,i thought the resister wire reduced the voltage,but now that i know thats not the case,what DOES the resister wire do ??thanx for your patience.(part of my confusion was that i asked about this on another bbs and got a VERY different answer,one that said to use a full 12v to the TFI)thanx again.

jsjps
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What do you guys think about MSD (the full set up). I have it with a high performance 360, headers, auto, 4:10 gears, and 33" swampers and it runs excellent in any condition.

Hoot

86/79 CJ-7. The louder the better/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif
 

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Ok, so now I'm not running any resistance to either the tfi coil or to the module, at least not on purpose.I'll need to test with a good multimetre, not a problem......wait,wich wire do I check? the positive wire to the coil? to the module? red or white? Damn I hate electrical!!! and if I need more resistance, what do I do? can I pick up a resistance at napa that I can splice into the specific wire?...I' think I'll get a resistance/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifbeer/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.giffor my brain!

thanks

Ben
 

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Everybody that has ever tested a resistor and found a voltage drop of any kind just assumed
that the resistor was a voltage limiting device.
It is not...
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A resistor, by defination, has resistance, and is used to drop voltage. Just plug it into the equation.

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A resistor is a 'Choke'.
It is a Current choke. Not a voltage drop device.
You can use a resistor to choke the hell out of a circuit enough to drop the voltage at rest, but
those are no amperage circuits.
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What other kind of circuits are there? If current doesn't flow, there is no circuit, again by defination.

Ohms law, E=I times R

E is electromotive force measured in volts
I is current measured in amps
R is resistance measured in ohms.

A choke is a wire wound device that has the property of inductance, measured in henrys. A henry is the recripicial function of capatance, which is measured in farahads Using the equation for impedance in an alternating current circuit, one over the square root of 2 pi f l c, where f is frequency, l is inductance, and c is capatance, one can determine the impedance at any given frequency.

This equation is mostly unimportant in automotive, since most circuits are d.c., however, some voltage will induce back into the primary side of the coil after the flux collapses. This is why you will see oscillations on a standard scope pattern of an ignition system.

Chokes are used in tuning circuits and as filters in a.c. circuits. A straight resistor wire has no inductance, only resistance.

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If you allowed a high output coil to run loose, it would draw somewhere between 30 to 50
amps...
The only ground for any ignition coil is through the module.
The choke keeps the amperage draw down so the module doesn't get fried trying to handle a 50
amp load.
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Lets rephrase that, the ballast resistor drops voltage to the coil and thus lowers the current.
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It restricts CURRENT.
Current is voltage AND amperage together...
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Watt?
P = I times E = I squared R
Current is measured in amperage, and current multiplied by voltage is power, measured in watts.

Lets plug your figures into Ohm's law. Using your 1.8 ohms on the primary side of the coil, and say battery voltage=12volts.
12v = I times 1.8 ohms that leaves about 6.66 amps, your figures don't compute. I think that I will sell my wielder and get one of those bigass MEGA coils to wield my shock mounts on with.
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I have seen some of the bigass MEGA coils draw up to 200 amps unrestricted.

I'm no expert, I just know how things work, and what works...
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I have sat back for about 3 months now, but I can't begin to figure out your theorys. Your use of factory Ford parts to upgrade some older ones that AMC used is great! But your bashing of some A.S.E certified and Chrysler gold level mechanics are uncalled for. This basic d.c. circuitry is the proof. Now go back and draw your wiring diagrams the proper way using the crank by-pass circuit at both the coil and the power ups at the DuraSpark module and quit misleading some people on this board. p.s. A.S.E. never offered all 8 tests to become a master in one sitting. It has always been manditory to take no more that 4 tests at one sitting, so just how did you accomplish that anyway?



 

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Post deleted by TeamRush

decided better of this post...
decided to just stick to the facts...
 

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Still mad about the EGR, GM HEI and Cam Timing things, Doofis?

You have been looking for a way to try and get back at me cense I shot you down on the GM HEI argument, the EGR argument, Cam duration argument and a couple of others I didn't bother to remember the details of....

Carry a grudge much?
Where is your fan club to pile on?
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Exhaust gasses do not now, nor will they ever add horse power to any internal combustion engine...
GM HEI is NOT the ONLY choice for AMC jeep engines. It's not even the best choice...
Camshaft overlap IS to scavenge the exhaust gasses and replace them with charge mixture...

Deal with it...
Be mad all you want,
Just deal with it...
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You sat back the last three months stewing about getting your verbal butt spanked, and now you just can't choke back the humilation anymore is more like it...
It won't do you any good. You are about to get it again...
You would be better off deleting your post, and keeping quiet...
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And as for the ASE tests, we just sent a kid up that took 6 tests in the same day, so I know they are still doing it.
I said I took all of the tests for the MASTER CERTIFICATION in one day...
I never said I didn't have any of the certifications before I got there...
And if memory serves me correctly (and it usually does), there were only six required when I did it.

LEARN TO READ!
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And while we are on the subject of your inability to assimilate printed information...
I never said a word about Chrysler technicians, gold or otherwise...

I think you may be listening to those voices in your head too much again....
You know, the ones that tell you GM HEI is the best ignition, EGR adds horse power, and ASE certification makes you an automotive God...
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Yes, doofis, I can quote Ohm's law too,
Nice Quote from a text book too.
(It is a dated textbook though, What do you know about it first hand?)
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Do you think if I started quoting my electronics text books it would do them any good?

Here, Lets try...
GUYS, let doofis know if this cleared up any of your application specific questions...

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The property of a material that restricts the flow of electrons is called resistance, designated (R). Resistance is the opposition to current.

Resistance 'R', is expressed in a unit of Ohms, named after Georg Simon Ohm (1789-1854), and is symbolized by the Greek letter Omega.
There is one Ohm of resistance when one ampere (1A) of current flows in a material with one volt (1V) applied.

Components that are specifically designed to have a certain amount of resistance are called Resistors. The principal applications of resistors are to limit the flow of CURRENT, and in certain cases to generate heat.

(quotes from Dr. Thomas L. Floyd's "Electronics Fundamentals: Circuits, Devices And Applications", page 35, section titled 'Resistance', printed by Merrill Publishing Company. It is the basic text book required for Laser Technology and Robotics students today...
Maybe ASE should require it also...)
=====================

NOW... Did those quotes from a text book answer anybodies' basic wiring questions?
Did that get anyone's specific application up and running...
Will your engines run any smoother knowing those tid bits of obscure electrical history and facts?
If not, please tell doofis to refrain from butting in when we are trying to get your engines up and running...
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And as usual, doofis, you are wrong again...
ANY resistance is a choke, or a restriction...
Direct Quote here, "Resistance is the opposition to current." (see above)
Doesn't say a thing about being a voltage regulator, or even a voltage drop device...

The voltage will drop only when there is sufficient load applied to deplete supplied current.

doofis, Just because you found a quote you think might be used to contradict me doesn't mean you are correct...
It just means you are a tired and bitter little man trying to make himself look bigger by bashing those that can and will take care of business...

And just like all of the times before, you are wrong again...
And normal person would learn after the first three or four times...

AND you need to catch on some electrical research before you try to educate me or anyone else here...
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OR, maybe you would like to teach this class...

Why haven't you chimed in with the answers? Don't you know this stuff?
You claim to be the foremost authority on automotive design....
Ignitions in particular...

Lets see it, Hotrod!
Time to make your case!

You are the one that claimed the GM HEI was the be all and end all, and the ONLY way for an AMC powered Jeep ignition to go...
Do you want me to go back and clip all the crap you pumped and drag it up here?

Want me to bring up the page where you started in on me and I defended you from the others when you were off on your GM HEI tangent?
They knew you better than I did then, and I should have listened to them, instead of giving you the benefit of a doubt... I was new here then...
I won't make that same mistake...
They warned me about you...

Come on Hot Shot, give them some answers....
Let me set back and snipe every time I think you may or may not have made a mistake...
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Just try to ignore all of the thank you notes made out to me for getting these Motorcraft ignitions and Holley carbs up and running while you are answering these questions...
You know, the same ignitions you said wouldn't work and needed to be replaced with GM HEI's...

I've deleted all my posts...
The floor is yours...


....Waiting....

 

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First of all, I couldn't find my book, and these equations are from memory. Again, a resistor is not a choke. A choke is a wire wound device that has the property of inductance, measured in henerys. They are used in "tank" circuits for tuning frequencys, like the cross over in a home speaker. Another name for a choke is an inductor, not a resistor. Pick up a basic radio book and learn about a.c. circuits. Maybe do a search on Michael Farahady or what is his name, something Henery.
There is much more to electricity than Ohms law and simple d.c. circuits. Maybe it is time you got Dr.Thomas Floyds next book, you know the advanced one and not just fundamentals.

Second of all, you must have me confused with somebody else, I never made any opions about the G.M. HEI swap. In fact, I think that using the stock Motorcraft dist. with your modifications is probably a better way to go. The reason is maintaining the factory spark curve that was engineered for the engine. I do believe however, that the circuitry in the G.M. module is better that Fords system. The reason is both the a.c. waveform protection device built into them, and their ability to control the dwell section better. G.M. lowers the dwell time at idle, so the coil can cool down, and raises it as rpm increases, to allow better coil saturation. Fords is always fixed at about 50%. The burn times in the G.M. system is much longer, but have a short coming by losing voltage available above 6,000 rpm. Again, this is just my own opinion from seeing both of their patterns on the scope thousands of times. My only mention to you on this subject was the lack of the "crank by-pass circuit" which is needed to help overcome the severe voltage drop in the battery during crank, and the improper way of wiring the red and *********** ups of the module.I have personally repaired many of cold start problems by finding problems in this circuit. It will work tagging both of them togeather, but is is not the way Ford designed it, it is not correct, and it will draw much more current for no aparent gain. I wish I knew how to draw those pretty scematics on my computer, and I could show you.

Third, the E.G.R. thing, which was also the cam overlap subject. I tried to explain how using a small amount of E.G.R. charge will allow higher pressures at a lower temperature before detination, and thus more horsepower. You kept saying something about raising intake charge temperatures, which had nothing to do with the subject. I am sorry you arn't open minded enough to see through this easy concept, maybe you should go back and read the post again and try to learn something new. p.s. Why is it Holley uses three inch long air jets in their exhaust headders for a 454 Chevy? I don't think it is to cool the exhaust valves, how about cancelling e.g.r.? I thought you had buddies at Holley monitering these posts? How come they didn't step in and say something about the manifold, ported, and venturi signals of a simple carb?

Fourth, go to http://www.asecert.org and see what it takes.

p.s. I kind of like the name doofis, maybe I will change it in my profile.
 

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And, once again your lack of reading comprehension shows through...

The Term 'Choke' you keep harping on...
I made it very clear from the outset that it was a generic term, not a literal or correct term... just used as a generic description for a restriction....
It helped several picture what I was trying to say...
And it worked. Several have already posted thank you's for the help, and are delighted with the upgrade...

You are trying to base your entire attack on one word used for a description.
Pretty lame, as usual from you...

I was trying to make a point to some guys that could care less about what your text book says,... They just wanted to get the jeeps running...
Which I have helped them do...
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Get over yourself.
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I didn't spend my time trying to pick every little thing apart. I was trying to explain it in nontechnical terms so it could be easily understood.
I don't have to baffle them with bullsh*t, because I know what I'm doing....
You don't seem to be able to make the same claim...
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And as for the GM HEI argument, You were the one that I was warned about.
Several people warned me about you, and I should have listened...
But I am more than capable of taking care of myself, and of your feeble, petty, jealous attacks.
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You told me I was full of sh*t, questioned everything I said six ways from Sunday, and then went into hiding when you couldn't get ahead of me.
At least you finally shut up about the GM HEI upgrades and Jacobs...

You didn't poke your head out again until you decided to challenge me on cam profiles...
And got spanked again...
Then it was EGR making horsepower...
And got spanked again....

Now it's simplified electrical explanations....
Might as well pucker up... Cause here it comes again...

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I don't care if you were the high grand poo-bah around here before myself and a couple of others started posting here.
Maybe you can work your self in again when I loose interest and stop coming here....
...Maybe...
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And just for your information,
And if you had spent as much time with a scope and test equipment as you say...
You would know that the power switching in the GM module isn't capable of handling enough current or quick enough to do the job even on stock engines at low RPM...
So don't try the same old tired ass dwell argument I've been reading in hotrod magazines for years... (not even a good try...)
If you had spent one tenth as much time on a scope, or even with an old fashioned dwell meter, you would know that the GM HEI module lets the dwell drift up and down UNCONTROLLED for as much as 40% of it's total...
The GM HEI module is a piece of crap. It's barely capable of being used as a limp home backup...

I'll throw you a bone...
If you come back here when I'm not around, and you catch some of the new guys just coming on, you may be able to pass it off as your own original thought...
You still know how to do that, don't you?
(You have tried to pass my explanations and ideas off as your own before, why stop now...)

The MSD replacement module for the GM HEI has heavier current handling capabilities for switching the coil, more precise dwell control, and more resistance to errant electrical discharges...
In other words, the MSD HEI module, combined with the kit to remove the coil from the cap, make the GM HEI a viable excuse for an ignition...
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As for your description of burn times tied to the ignition system...
STUPID!!!
(Again trying to circumvent the obvious with bullsh*t, eh, doofis?)

Ignition does just that, Ignites the mixture.
The reason GM HEI's have longer burn times is because they are in GM engines, and the shape of the combustion chamber, the head of the piston, and the grade of fuel determine burn times...
Burn times have nothing to do with ignition other than the fact the ignition starts the burn...
Technically, The burn time has NOTHING to do with ignition.
Burn time starts AFTER ignition...


If you were trying to say SPARK DURATION, the Motorcraft ignition with the TFI coil makes much more usable spark energy, WITH LONGER IGNITION DURATION than the GM HEI.
It is spark duration that makes for good ignition system after a reasonable spark voltage and amperage are achieved...
The TFI coil kicks the GM HEI in the head for all three important ignition properties...
Reasonable voltages, Amperages, and Duration...

Or didn't they teach you all this in grease monkey-parts changer school...
You know, along with GM HEI's being the ONLY ignitions, Advanced cam profiles being 1940's technology, and EGR being the secret to all horsepower increases...
I bet they still teach you dirt and water make frogs too... How about the earth being flat?...
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But I digress...
I have decided your old pal (toadie/ roadie/ sidekick/ rodent ) is correct.
It is beneath me when I argue with people like you...
"Piss Ant" is the word he used to describe himself...
I wouldn't have used it myself, but I do think it's pretty accurate...

You don't have a leg to stand on again, as usual, but you still want to argue...
I guess it's how you try to get attention.

I didn't see a single place where you answered any of the guys' questions on this thread...
Can't you walk the walk after you talk the talk?...
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This is taking up too much of my already limited time.
Time I could be helping people and persuing my own interests.
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Goodbye, and have a nice life doofis.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"
 
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