Off Roading Forums banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The following was sent by an Economist within the Fuel Industry and another Economics professor at CAL Reiterated the same last week. I think its worth trying.

We heard today from a reliable source who is very savvy about the economy namely, Clark Howard, and he says that the gas prices are going to start going up again and will be high this summer - $2.00 and up. We need to do whatever we can and do it NOW!!! This makes more sense than the "don't by gas on a certain day" routine, that was going around last year. (Gasoline Prices)
Whoever started this has a good point. By now, you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.58 is cheap, me too, as it is now $1.68 and up for regular unleaded. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is cheap at less than $1.50, we need to try an aggressive response. With the price of gasoline going up more each day we consumers need to take ACTION! The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we don't buy it. But, as the gas companies know full well we are counting on, thats not really practical, option, since we all have come to rely on our cars. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together. Here's an idea: For the rest of this year, don't purchase gasoline from the biggest companies (which now are one), namely EXXON, MOBIL, AMOCO, etc...(the ones with the highest prices) You see, if they are not selling, they should be incline to reduce thier prices. And, because of thier size, and hence market share, if they reduce thier prices the other companies will too. (They would HAVE no choice!) Isn't that a "juicy" prospect? But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of users, but it's do-able! I am sending this note to 42 people. If each of you send it to at least 10 more ...and those 10 send it to at least 10 more and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth iteration, we will have reached over one million consumers. Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on, or one you compose, to at least 10 more email addresse's. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO BELOW $1.28 - $1.29. And KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK!
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!


SPEED KILLS BUT YA GET THERE FASTER

KTM 500
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hey there CRAZYKTMMATT, I don't know where you live but I live here in Southern Cal in the high desert and the price of gas here where I live is outrageous. The cheapest that I've seen here is $1.95 for regular unleaded and last month it was $1.49 for the same thing. I ride quads in the washbed and riverbeds by my house and I've had to slow it down to once or twice a week when I was riding everyday, I don't even go 4x4ing hardly at all anymore between gasoline and my utilities (gas and electric) I've had to cut back a lot just to make ends meet.




72 K5 Blazer, 2000 Dodge quadcab 4x4
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
See my other post in the other gas post, but when you own 50-60% of the known oil reserves in the world like OPEC does you can charge whatever you want. I'm 100% American and damn proud of it, but I have to say IMO us Americans are Morons. We complain and whine, but don't change what we drive or our driving habits. Most of us drive 2 blocks to the store for some bread. Our price here in minnesota is now about the same as a CA...$1.90-$1.95/gal. I really doubt we will see prices below $1.40 again. We should just be glad it stayed as low as it did for as long as it did. Heck overseas it is $3-$5 a gallon. Ultimately the next few years will be tough until the car manufactures get their combustion engine vehicles up to par. 50 mpg sedans are not very far away w/ the technology we have and would be a big help. From what I hear among those in my industry is hold on to your hats (and your wallets) because by July 4th or so it will be about $2.50 a gallon. Eventually I think the price will settle in the $1.80 or $2.00 range though unless President Moron (uhhh I mean Bush) or Congress decides to step in, release some barrels of oil from reserve, or cut the policies requiring the expensive emission additives like Ethanol.

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,517 Posts
Funny you should mention ethanol... Seems that one could run a vehicle pretty well on ethanol or methanol, with the only downsides being that you can't see the fire in the day time if it catches on fire... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Just have to get a special carb with gaskets that won't get messed up by the alcohol... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif And since our farms are the most efficient anywhere, and our farmers are really hurting due to depressed prices, it would seem that this would not only help us get cheaper fuel but help them out of the hole they're in... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Just imagine the gas prices if Gore had gotten in as President... We'd be just like europe, paying $4-6/gallon or worse, per liter... Most of that being from taxes... /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

Tim "Sandman"

ORC Land Use columnist:
My February article on ORC
(I'm finally back)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My whole opinion on politicians is I don't there is a good one to be found. Gore would probably cause a little more termoil in the economy, but would eventually crumble to popular cries I believe just on character. Bush is just so stupid it is unbelievable. brain dead LOL! But other then that I like him more then Gore I guess... I think our next president should be one w/ a big Chevy on 44's /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

But politics aside ethanol is extremely expensive to produce, so till they find a better and more efficient way to produce it it will be an out. The main thing is efficiency... or what % of the fuel is actually turned into power to drive the wheels. A regualr gaoline motor is at about 14%... meaning after drivetrain friction loss and all the energy released as heat, etc. With new technology I have heard estimates that say vehicles can be made through aerodynamics, weight loss, lighter drivetrains w/ less friction caould be made to be 30 or 40% efficient which they say would be more then enough to make a typical 4 door sedan do 50+ mpg. Bringing up ethanol and methane, If you look at efficiency on combustion in the same vehicle ethanol drops to about 10% efficiency. That is why when winter gas blends are released here we lose typically anywhere from 1-3 mpg. Methane surprisingly comes in at 8.5%... so it is gonna take a lot of Mama's spicy chili and beans to drive that baby /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif LOL. This really surprised me after reading about that Castrol Honda CRX drag car that ran on methane... plus I guess a methane type motor needs a much more powerful or efficient oiling system if I remeber the article correctly. Overall it will be interesting to see where technology leads. But until we get some real fuel efficient vehicles I think people are gonna have to cough up the green or just plain drive less /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,490 Posts
It also has to do with the number of refinerys that are out there. I know up here in Canada, there are only 3 all the small independent companys buy from there. The thing is that gas could become cheaper if there wasn't a monopoly on it. The 3 main companys set the price up here and there is nothing that can be done about it. And one other biggie is that no one wants to build anymore 100,000,000,000 refineries because they don't know if cars will be running on gas in 15-30 years. It takes that long just to pay off some of these big places. I like the idea of the alky fuels but it is harder on the engines. For instantce we just bought a brand new 130HP Honda OutBoard. Anyway, they advise to only run normal gas and not run methonol or ethonol because of the exess water vapor that is created. The dealer said the motor can actually hydrolock from it.

Anyway...you guys are lucky down there. Up here after changing over the dollar and going from gallons to litres we are paying $3.25 for that same gallon you guys are.

Ryan

93 GMC Yukon
Chevy SuperStock 4x4 Truck Puller
Great Lakes Truck & Tractor Pulling Association
http://www.greatlakespull.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,517 Posts
Clinton didn't crumble to popular cries about all the BS he caused, and gore is almost an exact clone of Clinton except worse. They'd have screwed us so badly there would be no recovery. Funnelling all sorts of money into propaganda to make the public think things are bad here in the environment, etc... Without regard for the economy. /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

Ethanol and/or methanol, while not being as efficient a fuel as gasoline, are more environmentally friendly, plus there is an infinite supply of them (we can grow what we need, new crop often, sustainable fuel supply) get to keep internal combustion engines longer. Propane works also as a fuel, however it's more of a non renewable resource. You do end up having to run more, but on the other hand I'll bet it'll be a good move to do this, because the mideasterners get to keep their oil, our farmers make some money and our economy becomes more reliant on things in the US, and better under our control... Even biodiesel would work ok... But simply because they're renewable they make more sense, and the infrastructure for that would still likely be easier to implement than that for hydrogen fuel cells (next big leap)... Just some thoughts... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Tim "Sandman"

ORC Land Use columnist:
My February article on ORC
(I'm finally back)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah Clinton and the democrats have their enviromental BS (if you want to call it that) I'm for the enviroment, but am like let's be realalistic... and then the BS w/ the landuse issues was total crap! I know when I voted it was Bush because I know gore is definetly not a good choice for the offroaders and classic car guys. You're right we probably would all be forced into golf carts by next year /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif. But they do lean towards the middle class in issues like heating costs, etc. Republicans are all Big Business... the rich get richer and the poor fall deeper in the toliet. But hopefully the economy will recover and prosper with a republican pres. and the whole trickle down thing works (Hmmm?) /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

yeah I did forget to mention that... they can be made or won't run out. I guess emissions would be a bit better on staight ethanol and the only real puzzler w/ the methane would be the high nitrogen content in the exhaust. You're 100% right there... but overall power is gonna be just like the hybrids... crap unless the price of these things goes through the roof w/ turbos and all that. But hopefully with a switch to high use of turbos like the diesels now, would allow cheaper turbos to hit the market. Farmers woulkd absolutely love an ethanol run vehicle line. Big profits for them and "Made in the USA" [smile, but would it be cheaper? I guess it depends on what technology in production they can come up with. But I would guess that is the main 2 holdups on those 2.

The bio or green diesels are pretty cool vehicles. Hard to believe that VW lupa or whatever it is called was released overseas in the mid-1990's. Decent emissions and 90 mpg... kinda a cool thought although I sure it is slower then a soapbox racers w/ square wheels, but not everone is a power freak like me LOL /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. I definetly think these are pretty good ideas and would all be much better the hybrids. I really hate to see when those things break *shudders* and they will. Heck 2 different motors a ton of electronics and the a $5,000 battery. I just think it is funny that the american car manufactures are all leaning towards gas combustion engines from what I have heard. GM w/ their direct injection... Mopar w/ their electronic valvetrains... and well I think F#@d might actually take there thumb outta there butt too LOL...j/k

I really wanna know that since it is 2001 where are them flying Jestons cars and hwat the heck they run on LOL /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,517 Posts
Actually, you're thinking of the old democratic party that's for the lower classes. The clinton/gore form of democrats don't give a crap about the lower classes. Look at all the industries that were shut down in the west due to over regulating them? Sawmills shut down, loggers not even able to selectively log the forests (which is unhealthy for the economy and the forests), among other industries that the democrats just crapped on... /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif Not to mention their forest rules they imposed made the risk of catastrophic fires worse.. Oh, and about the environment... Concentrate on third world countries before you concentrate more on fixing what's here... We're already by far the cleanest nation on Earth. We are bumping up to something called "the law of diminishing marginal returns". This means that as we get closer to the margins (100% pollution free for example) the expense we incur in doing it (reducing pollution more) isn't worth the amount of benefits we get from it. For example, the jump from having no emissions controls on any business, to having let's say 90% of the previous pollution eliminated was not nearly as costly to get some very major benefits. They could do relatively simple things to reduce their pollution. Now they're at the point where the only way to reduce the pollution any farther is almost to shut the industries down (we can't do that), and we don't get nearly the amount of benefits that occurred from the major jump... In otherwords going from that hypothetical 90% pollution free to 95% pollution free will cost an insane amount more and we won't get nearly the same amount of benefits we did by reducing it to that 90% hypothetical level.. /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif And this is what forces smaller companies out of business (thus crapping on the small guy, and preventing more small guys from being able to profit, and causing employees to lose jobs)... So the democrats and the powerful environmental movement isn't really in anybody's best interest... At least anybody who likes forests and having jobs available anyway... /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

Overall power of vehicles running on ethanol or methanol can be very high.. I seem to recall formula 1 vehicles, as well as monster trucks running on "alcohol" and they're pushing upwards of 1500 hp... So as you can see, alcohol powered engines can still make some very serious power...

Tim "Sandman"

ORC Land Use columnist:
My February article on ORC
(I'm finally back)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The US is the leading food producing country in the world. We dont have to take the crap off anyone. If they dont want to sell oil for a decent price, jack up the price of the food they buy to compensate for it or just stop letting any food at all go there. It wouldnt be a long term stopage because when they start getting hungry they will be in more of a bargaining mood.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You hit the nail on the head. Clinton/Gore did hit that enviromental front very hard, so you're probably right. I agree after reading your last post and kicking it around, but that is in business. I was referring more to non-business... the typical Jones w/ 2.4 kids and a family dog. There is no way the republicans are helping anyone in the 40,000-100,000 income bracket who don't own a business. Obviously helping businesses, especially the small ones, has some benifits and then of course more small businesses=more jobs, but it is still the same old deal IMO when it comes to personal income taxes... tax the the hell outta the middle-class and take evrything the poor have. But I think you can argue politics to death and not come up with many answers...again I really don't think you can find a best of all worlds policy. Can't satisfy the rich, the middle-class, the poor, and the business sector.It is still the old game where rep. are pro business and demo. fight more for the middle-class IMO. But I wasn't refeering to "small guy" businesses... was more reffering to the poor and lower middle class. Sorry for the confusion.
"the law of diminishing marginal returns" is 100% on the money I think too. Just how clean are we gonna go and is it worth all the $$$? I mean are we gonna have to fart into some machine to dispose of it because of the pollution factor? Come on. And like you said at this point we are going to begin hindering our lives and start shutting things down which is too much. It is like cars... how much damn cleaner do they want these things to go??? I mean from 1967 to today there is a 99% difference in the pollution emitted. The EPA even cited that figure. Seems to me now it now time to start working on diesels, and figuring ways to clean up industry w/out hindering production.

But back to the original topic... yes they have 1500 hp cars on things like methane, but look at the cost of them... big bucks. Alcohol is quite a bit different as a fuel and burns a lot differently from ethanol to say the least, even though they are chemically similar. I'm not 100% sure on the exact procedures for making ethanol, but it does contain alcohol though. But as I said burns way differently. Oh yeah... was reading about gas prices in the paper today and they are blaming it on the refineries being slammed to capacity! Well maybe we should of built a refinery in the last 25 years instead of shutting more down screaming pollution. Interesting merry-go-round cycle to say the least /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif.

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The jetson skycar does exsit. A Company called Mollar International Has 2 prototypes that are flying around as we speak.One is a 2 seater the other is a 4 seater.The use dual rotorey engines at each corner get about 15 MPG.Ground travel is limited to 30mph flight speed is a reported 350mph!!They have Vertical take off and landing ability. And according to there website last I checked where slated for full blown production By 2006.Military is looking into the 2 seater(go figure).Current speculated price is a cool quarter million.They say if production reaches full operation they should have a communter availble for about $75,000. Oh and you need a pilots liscense.

www.Kansasfourwheeling.8m.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,517 Posts
I find the flying car thing very un-nerving considering the number of idiots who currently drive cars who we shouldn't honestly trust with operating even a vehicle staying on the ground... What happens when we need to have them read navigation charts and inspect their aircraft? Or even fly the thing? /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Scary...

I'll post a response to the above items soon, it's the weekend, and I try to avoid thinking from friday night to monday morning... /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

Tim "Sandman"

ORC Land Use columnist:
My February article on ORC
(I'm finally back)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hahaa... "Hey Arab dude... I'll give this cheeseburger for a tank full of gas for my truck!" LOL

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You say that Bush is an idiot? Well Mr. Crunch, perhaps you should check your own spelling and grammar and then maybe you can talk. I don't intend to offend you but Bush did graduate near the top of his class from Harvard. Hell, i have a hard time pulling a 3.2 from my state college. Once again he did graduate from flight school in the U.S.A.F. and as a member of this beloved branch of the military I can attest to the intelligence that is required of one to accomplich this feat. Yes, he may not be the most eloquent public speaker. I have met Pres. Bush and I can attest to the fact that he is one of them most honest and down to earth politicians we have. Granted he could not have become what he is without his fathers influence. But I believe that has the potential to become a great president, you may not see this in him but he truly wants what is best for this country. (I hope i don't have to eat these words)
Sorry for going astray from the original topic but i feel i must defend the man. I didn't vote for him either. I voted Buchanan.

How does it feel to be beaten by a sewing machine?
HUSQVARNA WXC610
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,656 Posts
Well, for alternate fuels I say we take a look at LPG/propane. In New Zealand and Austraila they are all the rage, as gas costs like 98 cents a litre down there. The power and mpg's go down if you run a dual fuel system, but if you run a straight LPG system, the power and mpg's can actually go up. Not to mention over there LPG costs like 50 cents a whatever. We should also remember something. I did the conversion between litres to gallons, and then from NZ dollars to American dollars, and they only pay about 10 cents more a gallon than we do. Now, their inflation is higher than ours, but still, it isn't like they are paying $5 American for a gallon of gas. That's like $12 New Zealand.

As for the supply stuff, I say we do a few things:
-Open up the Alaska, Texas, SoCal, and other US oil fields for drilling. Modern drilling is very environmentally friendly, not like the old fashioned and destructive image that all eco-nuts seem to have and promote.
-Lean on some of the non-Middle East OPEC nations, like Venezuela and Indonesia, and remind them how reliant on us they are for stuff little countries like them want. Military supplies, food, industrial goods, etc. Remind them that just because the Arabs want to stick their heads into the noose, they don't have to also. What are the Arabs going to do to Venezuela? Cut their oil export with them? Oh wait, they have their OWN oil.........../wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif
-Basically just tell the Middle Eastern OPEC nations, knock this sh%t off or it's no more easy going buddies routine. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Quatar, etc etc etc couldn't keep Saddam out of their countries without us or the other countries they are hurting with this oil BS. So if my fellow US Military buddies were to not be available to help keep Saddam at home, what would he do? March right in and take control. They know that, so that's a bargaining point for us. Also remind them that Israel is the only Middle Eastern country that has been our ally without any backstabing for the last 40-45 years. Just another chip to throw in there.
-Like I mentioned first, look more into LPG for cars. I know it is starting to be popular among diesel users, but it also works great for "gas" cars and trucks.

Oh yeah, George W owns at least one IFS Suburban and some other GM trucks back on the Ranch. You ever notice them in the background when he is back home? He personnally owns at least one in addition to the Secret Service "tank in a Suburban's clothes" ones that he rides around in./wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif

Speaking as a member of the US Military, we all breathed a collective sigh of relief when he was finally elected.

1992 Blazer Sport, 350 TBI, 3" Flowmaster 40 DF, 4L60, K&N, Rancho 2.5" lift, 285/75R16's on 16x8 Bajas /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't even want to get into this cause it is way off topic and totally opinion. It is like some people say the best president ever was FDR and he got us through the depression and a world war... and then another guy points to he began a huge federal debt, the war brought the U.S. outta the depression and he died in his mistress's arms. Although I will point out that you stated he is not much of a speaker and probably has greatly benifited from his father's name which is the truth. I do disagree that him or Gore if he was elected could become anything more then a trivia answer in 50 years, mainly because right now 90% of the rest of the world is laughing thier tails off at our minority president. Kinda hard to be great I think w/ the economy leaving the upward swing of the business cycle (or economy is falling), the stock market has the largest colapse in over a decade, and to boot about 50% of the people in the country don't think you should be there. No matter who is in the office the odds are stacked greatly against him. If Bush can survive to get a second term I'll definetly give him a thumbs up and a job well done! I will say name one great or even memorable president that was not a great public speaker or had a heart warming charisma about him? My idiot comment is not towards his intelligence, but towards his lack of any understanding towards the everyday American people and actual "street smarts". Do you think he has ever driven a $200 beater through high school, worked 40+ hours a week and still take on 15 credits a semester in college, or even mowed his own lawn or checked his own oil for that matter. Chances are he hasn't. I'd put money on it that he hasn't LOL. But then this is what I feel is really wrong w/ politics... it is so tough to get in without money and a name.

I don't proofread my posts very much or use the spellchecker to find typo's and that. Too much work for a casual and informal board with /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif's on it...LOL. Plus I will also add I was not handed a fully-paid education from Harvard on a silver platter such as Mr. Bush.

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
LilSinr.... Jesse? as in Ventura? "Da Body"? LOL... He started off as a breath of fresh air, but has totally killed his chance for re-election since he decided to push his new education policies... which basically take tution for college now and times it by 5!!! FYI for everyone... MN is typically very pro-education and pro-enviroment. I will say I'm glad as heck he ditched the emissions!

AJM.... I don't know a whole lot about these vehicles, but recently was discussing them w/ an international student at the U of MN from Belgium. He actually had a Blazer that was equipped with this, which is how I ended up meeting him. But I have yet to hear even a wisper of this technology in domestic automotive tech. My latest seminar for work was one from Dodge/Chrysler. People ask me why I'm leaving the field... ha... look at the ideas popping around and all the uncertinity. They aren't even sure what to teach techs anymore LOL /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. From my talk it seems that these vehicles are converted by someone or aftermarket. Do you know if any auto manufacturers actually sell a vehicle setup like this overseas?
You also made an excellent point with going to central America w/ some of our oil needs.... that is the next largest supply and should be easy to reach an arangement with. But they would run dry very quick w/ our oil consumption... probably 5-8 years tops. Texas is pretty dry these days and Alaska has most of the tapped US oil remaining, but weather conditions, lack of major developments, and length of transportation to reach the 48 adds to the cost. I have heard they know there is oil in the Rocky Mountian region and some people speculate there is a deposit as large as the middle east area. I have no idea if it is true but I guess the eco's are what is holding it up. I dunno.

1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top