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Fuel Injection/Inline 6

3733 Views 23 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  thorjeep
G
I am looking for any and all input, opinions, or experience with the after market fuel injection kits for the inline 6. I know Mopar makes one, and as I look at the details it looks like it also takes care of the HEI swap that is becoming a popular upgrade. Please let me know what you think, good bad or ugly. I’m looking for that “2 cents”.
Thanks
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The Mopar kit can not be used with the HEI distributor. It has its own distributor which the computer controls the timing with. Also, unless you convert to using a 4.0 liter head with the Mopar kit, pinging can be a bothersome side affect. Not all who have the Mopar kit have this problem, but it does exist in some cases. Other companies which sell EFI for the six cylinders are Howell (based on GM TBI) and Turbo City. As far as I know, the only which is compatible with HEI is the Howell kit.

I might be way off base here, but curiousity (and the fact that I am a cheap SOB) require me to ask...if Howell FI units are based on stock GM parts, would it be possible/feasible for a person to assemble a comparable system a save a bunch of $$$ ?

Yes....

See:
vanevery.homestead.com

Follow the Howell links...

Good Jeepin'

Larry
G
I'm one of those who installed the MOPAR kit an DO NOT have the pinging problem. As a matter of fact I have a Pacesetter exhaust header on the engine and have no pinging problems. It is the absolute best thing I have done to my 85 CJ7! Instant starting, never stalls even when cold, extremely smooth idle (a major problem with the Carter BBD that was on it before), and a lot more power. The only problem I had was on the first start after installation there was a high pitched whistling sound which turned out to be vacumn leak at the intake manifold. A had to modifiy the bolts because of the difference in thickness of the header and the intake manifold, but a little patience took care of the leak.
The MOPAR kit is expensive but it is the only option that can be properly serviced at a Jeep dealership.

You could also look into replacing the engine with a newer 4.0 with computer.

Good luck

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I know that the performance gains and MPG gains and stuff are great with injection, but just looking at that post from poor Nick on his 4 cyl. injection problems /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif, make me really love that weber carb and HEI on my 258. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif Carry a spare mechanical fuel pump, a spare coil and pickup for that HEI, and you're relatively good to go. I guess maybe I'm just simpler, or stupider (is that a word) than most, but if I had injection, most any of those systems, and I'm off camping in the middle of nowhere, and the Jeep won't start, I would have no idea where to look. Hell, if it's in my driveway and it won't start I'd have no idea.... millisecond on-times for injectors, fuel pumps inside gas tanks, mass air-flow levels, MAP sensors, idle air motors, closed loops, open loops, froot loops... /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

It's real cold up here in MA the past few or 3 weeks, single digits with -40 deg. wind chills, and the Jeep has started every day. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

I'm not trying ot talk you out of any of the systems, but I have heard that the Howell system has chip problems, and have heard stories about guys having 4 or 5 different chips tried out in their Jeeps... the Mopar MPI pings on a lot of motors, and there's nothing you can do about it, I guess, if you don't go to the 4.0 L head swap. I don't know.

You asked for $0.02, there's mine.

Good luck
Carburetor Pete. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

88YJ, 4"susp, 33"BFGMT, 9k#winch, rear homemade swingout, reb.258, 999, 4.10, weber32/36, GMHEI.
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I have MPI with the 4.0L head w/header, mopar perf. cam, and other, and it runs great on regular gas with no pinging with 18-20 mpg.

Enjoying Montana's Big Sky (& rocks & rivers & mountians etc, You get the picture.)
G
In my opinion I think the Mopar system is just a big ol waste of cash. First of all for the kind of $$$$ they are asking for the kit you could do a complete engine swap and still have a few bones left over. Second, why not just spend around 500 or so bucks and get a new intake and carb. I just think these injection kits are a big waste. Look at it this way, you Jeep has ran for all these years with the carb. Its much easier to work on, parts are alot less expensive, and think about what else you could do to your Jeep with those extra bucks. But again this is just my $.02

Steve
97 Tj, teraflexed,33 bfg muds, arb'd up front,etc. soon to be sold so I can get back to the good ol land of cj's.

G
Steve,
Your assuming that the guy lives in a state that does not have emissions testing. FYI..if your state does not have emissions testing now, it will soon. So that new intake and carb will end up being illegal. I can give you a long list of guys who have spent many $$$$ putting their system back into legal condition. If you don't think it will happen, just ask Houston TX who now has the #1 spot in the nation for smog....and they don't have any mountains to keep it in.

Actually, swaping in a 4.0 with FI is the cheapest (and legal) solution...provided you were ready for a rebuild anyway.

John......southern CA
84CJ7, 3"lift, 32"BFG, 4.10's, ARB Locker, Solid Axle's, Durabak
G
If you decide to inject your 258, I'd advise you to go with the Howell over Mopar. I've got friends who've done both. Howell is less expensive and seems to have fewer problems across the board. The 4.0 swap would probably be ideal if that's an option for you. My $.02

G
I had the Howell kit for a number of years and I was very pleased with it. To be honest, I notice very little difference when driving my 2000 TJ with the 4.0 as compared to my 85 CJ7 when it had the 258, Howell and HEI. Both have similar gear ratios and tire size.

The GM TBI setup is so simple that I was confident enough to rip the 258 out of my CJ7 and install a Chevy 350 TBI. GM TBI has had the bugs worked out long ago.

Forced to chose between the Howell and Mopar kit I would pick the Howell for a number of reasons....

Simplicity
Parts Availability
Ease of install
Modification friendly

I 258 with the 4.0 head, Howell TBI, HEI and some type of free flowing exhaust would be a great setup

Really, if I had a choice, I would swap in an engine that is already fuel injected. Low mileage 4.0's can be had for $1200 most anywhere.

LarryM
'85 CJ7, 350TBI, T19
'00 TJ, 4.0, NV3550, D44
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Yeah, that's a good point - I keep forgetting about you Cali guys who have to fight that visual inspection crap. /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif. We just got a new emissions inspection system in MA, drive-on dynomometers and all, but we still don't have a visual, you only have to emissions test every other year, and we also have a 15 year exemption for age - no emission test if your car is 15 years old or older. My ol' YJ is an 88, so it only has about 2 or 3 more years to go before it's 15, and I just got a sticker in November 99. /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif A new catalytic and a motor in good tune will pass my weber here, and I hopefully will only have to do it maybe once more! For you guys fighting legality, the Mopar MPI may be your only route, but I thought that Howell was trying to get CA legal too. Don't know how that ended up.

Good luck
Pete

88YJ, 4"susp, 33"BFGMT, 9k#winch, rear homemade swingout, reb.258, 999, 4.10, weber32/36, GMHEI.
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G
John,
True on the part that emission standards are getting more strict. But if he were to keep the original carburator on his Jeep, then he wouldnt have to worry about emission laws. He could always do a quality rebuild, or find a carb that is emissions legal as of now and they would have to let him keep it on his Jeep. If it is emissions legal at the time of purchase, he would not have anything to worry about. I am no expert in emission laws by any means, but I do know if you have oem equipment on your vehicle and it passes the smog test, then they have to let you keep the vehicle on the road. They cant say well.. you didnt pass so now we are going to take you Jeep and junk it. That would be like telling a guy with a 57 Chevy either put fuel injection on it or we are gonna scrap it. The only point I was trying to make is that the Mopar fuel injection kit is way too expensive. Even the Howell isnt cheap. He wanted our opinions so I gave mine. Anyways, I know where you live at that they are all about Green this, Green that. So it may be a whole other issue in Ca.
Steve

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G
Here is my dilemma. I have a rebuilt (Holly Remanufactured) Carter BBD brand new, that just isn’t giving me the performance I am looking for. On a steep incline it bogs out, the MPG are poor, the power is lacking, and I am sick of adjusting the carb for winter, spring, summer, fall in Colorado high altitude. In this State, carb or injected the emissions are the same. I still have to pass them for the 1985 standards once a year. If I had it my way there would be a Chevy 350 fuel injected, NV 4500, and Dana 44’s around, with new drive shafts, but I’m lacking the $10,000 for that. However I’m jealous of those who have it, and I always like to fantasize about it. But in the meantime I am looking for something to improve performance. I thought this might be a step in the right direction. For $1,700, it is expensive and that is why I am looking for options and feedback. That’s why I’m here, so don’t hold back. I need all the feedback I can get. And thanks to those who have given it! I do appreciate it all!
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If you do consider the Howell kit, be aware that they have had some cold-start problems. Once the temps drop they don't want to start. Since you are in Colorado, it could be a real pain in the a$$. Larry had great luck with his, but he is in Arizona so cold starts are very rare. Howell has been trying to get this bug worked out as more people are becoming aware of it. Call them up and find out how it is progressing or check out the Howell user's group for more info ( http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm and link to the user's group)
G
I just bought a cj7 with a 4.2 in it. I had always seen adds for the offenhauser intake and holleys carbs, but never thought they would make the difference that they do. I have a cj with a 304, had a cj with a 258 and now I have this one with offenhauser intake, holley carb and headers. It runs
AWESOME. It will cost you alot less than FI and you will be very pleased with the power you get. Anyone else with this set-up who wants to
back me up. It runs better than a stock 304! Just another angle to think about.

Rick


G
I ahve the Mopar kit on my 88 and love it. It was pinging when I first installed it but when I rebuilt the motor (at the same time) I had a oil burn problem(bad valveguide seal) after the rebuild perfect. Better milage, power is up, pretty easy to install.

rick88yj
G
First, this is a real good board, extremely smart people here. I've installed two of the mopar kits, one on my 86 CJ7 and just finished up the one my son and I installed on his 87 wrangler laredo. I don't understand all the hoopla about pinging, i've not experienced it on either install. I also only paid 1595 apiece for the kits, balancer included with the price. Also went a little extra and installed roller timing chains to make sure everything was right on the money. But anyway to make a long story short if I had to do it all over again I would. Oh, by the way, my stuff runs so go now I didn't have it back on the road a week and got two tickets, 574 in fines, ouch, cost thrre times that to get out of it, but I leart a lil lesson that day I'll tell ya. If you have the money, not alot of miles on your stuff, buy it, it should do just fine, later.

If there's two scoops per box, how many flakes per raisin?
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I think that the Mopar kit is the way to go. Not only is is port, but it is sequiential port fuel injection. The Howell kit is good, and somebody mentioned that that the parts could be had used. So can the Mopar kit! Every part that is sold in the kit is readily available in the junk yards! I have pieced 4 systems together and never had a problem with any of them. I would not spend the $1600 or so bucks for kit, when it can be pieced together for around $400. With a little research and planing, you should be able to come up with enough parts to make the system work. I would start by reading the instruction and parts list for Mopars kit. Then read the Mitchell's book for the '94 '95 4.0 Cherokee or Wrangler fuel system, and get an understanding how the system works. You can probably photostat them from the library. If interested, e-mail me direct, I have a few extra parts kicking around. Will trade for beer!!

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G
Both the Mopar and the Howell sound very interesting. Piecing a system together really sounds like the right cost the perfect challenge. I’m very interested in making this happen. What vehicles would be the best donors to find the Howell parts from. Please if you have this info, (Year, make and model, engine size) it would be great to have. Thanks
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