Yep, for 120 VAC coil there would be a neutral, but if you could read drawings you would see the starter is wired for a 220 VAC coil, no matter how you try and twist my words around I admit I wrote the description wrong, but like I said before you're a Military puke/grunt and they know about as much as dog sqat. You haven't shown me anything I don't already know, the 1st drawing was for a full tank, switch open, and, if you had any "smarts" you would understand once the compessor needed air the switch WOULD close and engauge the starter and make the compressor run until the switch reached the preset pressure and then open, again. The starters come with the control wiring and all aux. contacts are already "PRE-WIRED" like I said before You were the one that wanted to alter, twist around, and create an unsafe condition. I have a starter installed on my compressor and this is the funny part I guess I'm still waiting for the "BOOM" and its been plugged in and running on/off for over 6 years now. The drawing came straight off the backside cover of a Cutler Hammer starter so send your gripes to them, or are you going to try and sell this like "Junkyard Dogg" wanted to do. Soooo what you still have their drawing, think I really care, think again, if you can "grunt" you're one of them people that are always right. At least I admit I made a mistake in my description. You must be very old and senile cause them people are packrats and save everything, even antique "code books" that are worthless because the code changes every two years. I am very passionate (spell?) and careful about my work sooooooo just fire on grunt with your mindless dribble you're still not showing me anything other than why you are sooooo well liked here. I'll admit I might not be popular but, think I care, think again grunt, go hang out with your buddy junkyard dogg cause you can kiss my , once on each side of the crack, Have a nice day!

BOOGER

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"

 

:laugh: You are BOTH WRONG... "real electricians" would be using a 24V coil just for safety's sake. You know, so you can have a bat handle toggle switch somewhere to override the pressure switch and disable the compressor when you leave the shop for days at a time. OR BETTER YET....24V "DC" control so you don't get that annoying chatter or that points-wrecking "rebound" that you get from AC-controlled starters. Now THAT would be a worthy setup. SqD used to make a Size 5 Auto-transformer motor starter like that. It had it's own rectifier to make the DC. A fine unit if ever there was one. No vibration and no chatter. As soon as I'm named dictator-for-life I'm going to decree that ALL control circuits be low voltage, no more of this 240 or 480 on the push buttons. Actually most pressure switches aren't 600 volt rated, but you see them with 480 on them quite frequently.....YOW!:shocked:

 

While you are at it, put in a softstart or VFD. That would put a lost less strain on the motor and belts.

In fact, if you use a pressure transducer instead of just a switch, along with a PLC (Allen Bradley CompactLogix would be my choice), you could use the variable signal out of the transducer to control the RPM of the compressor motor. At low pressure, the VFD and motor run at high speed...as you get closer to your switch off pressure, the RPM's would drop.

Take it a step further, put in a flow switch on the air line. The PLC would then regulate the RPM's of the compressor to match the load.

Might as well go all the way...add a wireless interface with a touchscreen....that way you can sit at a desk and control/monitor the compressor and everything else hooked up to the PLC.

 

Well an update. It seems that Lowes and home depot dosen't stock 3/0 wire anymore. So I had to get 4/0,4/0,2/0 I went to about 4 diffrent places and it seems they don't carry copper.

 

I too have learned a thing or two on this thread Dave. Rio, Nobody does anymore you have to get it at the electrical supply store, and most don't stock the larger copper either. The last 2/0 copper 4-wire SER I needed had to be special ordered from a state out west and the shortest piece I could get was 110 LF and I only needed 65 LF and this was 9 Yrs ago and the price was 5.75 dollars a LF then. Yep, Dave 24 VDC is nice in the control circuit in a starter, I've installed quite a few, yep, the chatter can be annoying if the internals develop any rust or heavy dirt. I have to go and clean a few of the larger ones on a regular basis because of their location. It is also nice to be able to add all the bells and whistles in the control circuit when its practical, cost effective and will help with the protection of the equipment, always have to protect the equipment in one way or another. I too have a few extras added on mine, but the variable speed motors are installed with my heating and cooling systems. Gone are the days of the 2-3-wire heat, and 5-wire thermostats for heat/cooling. The new stats (2-zone cooling, 10 zones heat) in my house all either have 2-wire for heating or 14 wires for cooling, I also have a number of exterior sensors installed around the house that connect up with the cooling part to work in unision with everything else to control the amount of speed the fan motors need and there are sensors on the condensers for speed and control on the amount of cooling and what stage the compressor should be running, it is really nifty and the best part is you don't have to be able to read bi-nary a thing to understand it, its all in the comprehension of the system, as a whole, when it functions correctly, to be able to see everything functioning together.

Booger

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"

 

Oh man..... do I EVER wish I had one o' them "brainy" A/C systems here in the ol' farmhouse. My Chiropractor just installed a system made by Mitsubishi that has a mulit-stage compressor/condenser and room evap units that are individually controlled. Now THAT is the way to do it! ***** On the vari-drive for the compressor..... wouldn't you lose a major portion of the WR2 if the flywheel RPM got too low....and have trouble pulling the compressor through TDC at very high pressures? And what about the reduced cooling effect of the lower speed fan/spokes of the flywheel? I do know that in very large cold storage facilities they "stage" the compressors so they use five little ones instead of one big one. I could have multiple compressors and use both variable speed AND staging via the PLC.:grin:

 

And while you're at it, here is the lead-pipe, no-fail, rock-soild formula for all your heavy wiring needs: SqD mains and Sub mains...(use the I-Line sub main style, you'll never find one hot)....and then all Allen-Bradley MCCs and PLCs. Use SqD or Challenger disconnects. The Infrared Camera doesn't lie, that's the gear that stays tight and stays cool. The rest of the makes you have to tighten...and tighten.... and tighten....and tighten... OOPS! A burnout! Oops! There goes a 1500A breaker to the scrap pile. Oops! Is that smoke? Oops! Do I smell OZONE in here?:blush:

 

Yep, the cooling system is really nice, has a real tiny scroll compressor and when it calls for cooling in the summer, it only runs as fast as need be for the outside/inside temperature. I got a real good deal on the systems, 2-3 ton units, condenser, air handler w/a-coil, 16 SEER, no ductwork needed just the flex connector to the air handler, all made by York, delivered, set-up piped in, the works for only 5300.00 dollars. Its a heat pump too but I barely use it, I like my old timey cast iron radiators, zoned out the way I have it set up I have really good control on where the heat goes. Dave I'm kinda partial to Cutler Hammer controls/panels, etc, never had a problem with them. What I hate most about the rest is most of the breakers are interchangeable and that is really scary to open a panel up and see 25 different kinds of someone elses breakers in there, nobody elses stuff will fit a "real" Cutler Hammer panel except Cutler Hammer. I like allen bradley, I've had problems with challenger products and Sq-"D" has just gone downhill, But, I know the infra red heat gun doesn't lie. I've installed alot of the Mitsubushi "Mr Slim" units and they are the ultimate in being able to control your cooling and all the 40 ton and above, I used to recommend to the customer multi-compressor units but those were on cold water exchange systems in large buildings, and they are nice too cause if one compressor goes you still have some cooling, real slick.

Booger

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"

 

SqD mains and Sub mains...

Aw heck... I just took a SqD back and install a Cutler Hammer Sub panel this morning... just my luck.

 

No offence to anyone here and this is just passed on info, but all electricians I know (all industrial type) Say got cuttler Hammer or forget it....

But again this is all what I have been told.

Dad was an industrial electritian for 35 years and wouldn't install the pannel in my house when I brought home a murray he went and bought a cuttler hammer and put it in..

He will help me with anything on my side of the meter, but said in 35 years he never had to put in a meter base. So he didn't want to mess with it.

 

Everyone has their prefrence I reckon, but I think Cutler hammer is the way to go, like I said before its scary to open up a panelboard and see everyone else's breakers there but the manufacturer of the panel and I've seen it. Well just to me, having C.H. equipment is like having a very fine automoble or a Jeep per say, You are not going to throw any ole thing together and if you do it'll let you know about it later.

BOOGER

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"

 

Jeff if you believe half of this thread...

It's your thread. But you need to actually hire and electrician to install the weather head and ingress.

There are several reasons that it is more simple at the end of the day... Like the inspector is happy, the electric company is happy... Nothing burns down.

:cheers:
Dale

 

That would be great Dale IF I could get one to show up. Everyone out here has it to good and dosen't want to make any money. Before I did all the work except put the meter in I wanted to pay to have the complete install done. lights included. So I had a few electritians come out and shoot some prices. one was crazy the other two were acceptable. I gave the job to one and after he failed to show up 4 times when he said he would I told him not to bother. Called the second he was all about it. Came back out and did a survey with me writing what I wanted down again and it looked promising, Again he never showed back up and I can't get back in touch with him. That was over a month ago. I started putting the lights and circuts in, then the pannel, now that it is all wired all I need is the bas in and I am done. Cinergy taps into the box from underground. I just have to provide the 1 1/4 in riser. Heck If I can get this base in I am done.

 

Yew boys need to pay more attention. I mentioned that SqD was my choice for Mains and Submains. When I said that I was referring to the industrial stuff, like the 4000A Bolt-Lok mains. And the sub mains I was referring to were the I-Line sub mains with the big breakers that FEED to the MCCs and the other smaller panels. Stuff like 150A and 200A breakers. SqD has a way of attaching the I-Line breakers that is absolutely unequalled. Once you get downstream of the sub mains, then SqD isn't so good; their single-slot breakers run 110 degrees for no good reason. I like GE for the household and very light industrial applications because their breakers have good PHYSICAL SIZE. There is just no substitute for PHYSCIAL SIZE. The infrared camera tells all......... Earlier this year I did a house re-power for a buddy. We put in a 200A combination meter-main-submain. It was a MIDWEST brand and it was one of the best ones I have ever used. It had four big breakers plus a provision for a generator hookup; could go UG or OHV with the same box, and it had LOTS of room for the conductors.....YES!!!

 

Yep Dave I been paying attention but when doing a job that was put out on open bid you have to use what the archetect (spell?) calls for and no changing anything. Thats why I guarantee only my labor and method of install, I don't make the equipment sooo I don't guarantee any of it, I just go the extra mile and make sure I do my part as correctly and safely as possible. Dale you don't have to believe anything I say, no-one else does, but I don't care, I do what I know is best and what works for me, and the customer base that follows me around. If I didn't know or wasn't any good I guess people wouldn't come looking for me to perform their work.

BOOGER

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius walk the same side of the street"

 

Whatever it takes Booger...

Long as you understand that NEC Codes can be interpreted differently from state to state... Electric Companies may have different requirements... When you get down to one specific electric company or building code inspector???

It gets really hard to be correct without checking with the folks that are going to approve your installation.

I know Jeff (Rio) and simply wanted him to know that it's not always a simple answer.

So KMA if you think that I have... Whatever.

:cheers:
Dale

 

Dale, you missed it and it walked right by, nooo matter. I did repeatedly say "TO CHECK WITH LOCAL CODES" and yea I know to people can read the same thing and get different meanings. Read the whole thread. I didn't go to 6 years of night school to learn how to correctly understand the terms and different phrases like the difference between grounding and bonding for nothing. I needed it and sooo did about 20 other students in my class to understand the code and as a refresher prior to taking the test. Around here if yo is white you have to show 8 years and apprentice cards to get a shot at the Master license, if yo is a different persuasion, right away the test is unfair and YOU get an easier test, after one/1 year, is that fair. And as far as KMA goes do it yourself, you seem to have two/2 sets of lips, so you can talk out of both sides of your mouth, Good Day.

BOOGER

"Sometimes Insanity and Genius Walk the same side of the street"