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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've always been impressed with the HEI ignotion on my Chevys and I thought it would be a great way to solve the problems with my Jeep's stock ignition. Tried to build my own DUI and ended up with two destroyed distributors. since then I've been to lazy to call up and see how much they want for a DUI so I was wondering if anyone out there in cyberland has one of these units, how they like it, and how much it was? Also what's the best way to waterproof HEI? Did the military ever use them and put cool stuff on them? Thanks for any input. Happy Jeepin
Travis

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Er.....ah...Travis? Is that you? Where have you been lately? Were you kidnapped by aliens and have just now been released? For almost two solid weeks this BBS has been alive with distributor upgrade knowledge that you CAN'T GET anywhere else. Are you saying that after all that, you haven't a clue as to what to do with your Jeepie. That's kind of like reading the Sunday supplement to the newspaper then looking up and asking: "Do you know where I can get a good VCR?"/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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Why do people seem to have problems waterproofing their HEIs? I just siliconed the coil cover and a week later had to dunk the unit and it ran fine. I would recomend tapping a hole and running a vent someplace and siliconing the bottom up real good, but so far it has not been an issue.



 

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There really is no way to water proof an GM HEI.
The way the coil cover and cap are designed there are too many entry and exit points in the cap.
The good news is that if you get a really good seal on the coil cover, it's sort of like dunking a glass up-side-down in the sink, it holds an air bubble for a while.
Water will eventually get in, but not right away.

(IE: Engine quits on the far bank instead of in the river... Jump out with your trusty can of ether and dry everything off and out, vent the ether fumes, and put the cap back together and go)

The DUI ignition will probably run between $450 and $500.
Many of the components DUI uses are straight from MSD, so you may find some savings by buying straight from MSD if you decide to use variable timing controls or one of the other MSD through DUI add on modules.

Beware of the DUI coil. They insisted on using a HUGE output 'MEGA' coil, and the voltage leaks everywhere. The one we have in the shop here actually arc s to ground outside of the cap! (Leaking from under the coil cover)
So if you get a hold of it wrong, you may have to clean your shorts... (I almost did!)
Bladder control is spotty (there is a pun!) when you are ground for 125,000 volts!

If you want to build a distributor like the DUI, get a:
MSD GM HEI module, Summit Racing P/N MSD-8364 ($65.95)
CRANE ADVANCE KIT, Summit P/N CRN-996001-1 ($22.95)
The crane kit has adjustable vacuum advance, vacuum travel limiter, and advance springs.
Summit's EASY HEI HOOK UP, power wire, Summit P/N SUM-G5201 ($5.50)

HYPERTECH Cap, Coil, and rotor kit, Summit P/N HYP-4050 ($69.95)
(I think it's what DUI uses)

OR

MSD: Cap, P/N 8411: Rotor, P/N 8410: Coil, P/N 8225 , I don't use GM Style HEI stuff, so I don't know the prices right off hand... Call Summit. 1.800.230.3030

OR

You could do a cap, rotor, plug wire upgrade (About $60) on your stock distributor, and slap on an MSD 6 module, and kick both the DUI, GM HEI, and the factory ignitions butts.
MSD 6 series module will out preform DUI, GM HEI, and DuraSpark ignition systems 100 to 1,000% on all counts.
It will work with your stock distributor and coil, but you will need to upgrade your distributor cap, rotor, and plug wires to later model Ford HEI style, but that is all bolt on stuff.
MSD 6A. Summit P/N MSD-6200, ($131.95)
MSD Harness to Ford Distributor connector, MSD P/N 8869 (about $10)

Takes about two to three hours for anyone with 6 thumbs to install....
(HEY! I resemble that remark...!)

Hope this helps.... Aaron.

If a tree falls in the forrest, and there is no woman around to hear it, is the man still wrong?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Aaron that helps a lot, I don't think I'll be spending $450 for a distributor anytime soon. I just always liked my HEI. I really think stock would work for me it still throws out pretty decent spark. I know where you'rre coming from on the bladder control issue. My buddy and I built a spudgun using a HEI distributor as an ignitor, My buddy decided to spin it while I was connecting the plug wire. I did a funny little dance and couldn't feel my right arm for a while. But I'm not too familiar with ignition stuff, would that MSD box you speak of get rid of my points, or are they not as bad as I think? I really appreciate your time to type all this stuff out for me. And no CJDave I wasn't abducted by aliens, I work nights and I'm on the cumpooter at 4am when there's no one to talk to /wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif And besides the aliens never take me for more then a few hours, and this new tinfoil hat keeps them away all together/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Thanks again
Travis

Inquire about my witty original saying contest/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Hi travis! You know, after having Aaron do some explaining about the good, the bad, and the ugly with regards to ignition systems, we scrapped our plans to graft our favorite GM HEI top end onto our Jeep V8 Motorcraft distributor stalk. I had figured that nothing could touch the GM HEI, and that ONE wire hookup was, well....atractive? Our Jeep actually had breakerless ignition to begin with, but even if it was points, it would have been better to go with an aftermarket MSD module. They have kits from MSD to convert most distributors from points to electronic trigger. After really studying the posts on this BBS for the last two or three weeks, I have boiled it down to this: Spark Duration beats Spark Voltage. If you are going to spend the dough, spend it on an MSD module, and then upgrade the rest to match. There is more chance of the MSD module returning your investment in better performance/fuel mileage than just about anything else. The long duration spark will sweep out the corners and find that unburned fuel where others may not. We don't trust the Klintunoid-Gorinsky bunch and we are trying not to make our Jeep too mail-order dependent for repairs. What we really like about using the Motorcraft Jeep-to-Ford conversion, is that the parts are common as dirt, and if the crap comes down and we have to run for it, we can also use a stock Motorcraft module in place of our MSD should something happen to our MSD. So, performance and reliability both intersect on the Ford conversion with an MSD behind it./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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I have spent SEVERAL months down through the years testing ignition components.
I can tell you one thing, on a test bench you never remember to turn the power supply off. and you never remember ground the capacitive discharge units before handling them.
Both oversights result in bladder control problems...

To answer your questions,
Yes, you can use points with the MSD 6 series modules.
If you have breaker points, you probably have the Delco distributor. There are a couple of companies out there that still have a Delco points to breakerless ignition upgrade kits.
MSD doesn't make a kit to do the points to breakerless trigger. I sure wish they would.
My all time favorite upgrade kit was from Stinger, but Stinger is out of business now.

You never said if you have a I-4, I-6, or V-8. You only said stock.
I'm going to try to cover all of the bases really quickly...

If you like to tinker, you can do basically what Stinger did. Get the distributor pickup coil and reluctor from a 76 to 78 Chrysler what ever and grind out the reluctor with a die grinder until it press fits over the points cam on the advance head of your distributor.
Then it's an easy matter to replace the points with the pick up coil.
PRESTO! $15 dollar conversion! Get an advance spring set for that distributor and you are in business. I also recommend a MSD Cap-A-Dapt base, and a MSD phased rotor.
Use the wide Ford distributor cap, and late model high energy plug wires and you are ready to throw an MSD 6A module at that ignition system.
(for V-8 or I-4 I use a 76 Chrysler New Yorker reluctor. For I-4 firing, use a V-8 and just grind off every other trigger on the reluctor. I'm sure the Mopar 225 slant 6 reluctor would work for I-6 applications)

OR...
Just go to the parts store and buy a Motorcraft distributor for your application.
Jeep used the same Motorcraft distributor in all models of 258 CID I-6 Jeep from 1978 until it's death in 1991, so they are plentiful.
(I would assume less than $100 including core)
If you have a 258 CID I-6 Jeep, use the distributor from a 1981 258 CID I-6 Jeep CJ.
Be sure to compare the lower unit closely, make sure the drive gear is the same, and the oil pump drive is the same, and install it.
Use the Distributor Cap Base, Distributor Cap, Rotor, And Plug Wires from a '81 Ford F-150 pickup truck, with a 300 CID I-6.

For V-8, it's a distributor out of a '79 Jeep CJ-7 With AMC 304 CID engine. ($100)
Mate that with the Cap base, Cap, Rotor and Plug Wires from a Ford F-350 truck with a 460 CID engine. ($50)

Get a good distributor cap with brass terminals. Aluminum is wasting your time and money.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THE MSD UPGRADE MODULE BEFORE DOING THE DISTRIBUTOR CAP, ROTOR, AND PLUG WIRE UPGRADE.
If you do, you will regret it.

Hope this is what you were looking for... Aaron.

If a tree falls in the forrest, and there is no woman around to hear it, is the man still wrong?
 

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Aaron,
Let me run this past you just so I know I have it straight. I have a '77 CJ-7 w/304. It has the Presolite ignition right now. I called NAPA and they have the Motorcraft distributor for a '78 AMC V8 for $51.99, w/core (I hope they will take the Presolite as a core). I had previously ordered the Mr. Gasket advance springs from Pepboys ($2.99, but 3.50 shipping, what a jip) before I realized I had the wrong distributor : (. Now all I need is the cap, rotor and plug wires from a '?? F-350 w/460, right? Oh and an ignition module from this same engine (can't afford the MSD, yet)? All of this for about $110.00 and it should improve my ignition performance/mileage? I'll upgrade to MSD as soon as I can afford to. Does all this sound right? What about my alternator? It is the stock one w/external voltage regulator. Will this be okay for now? I did replace the voltage regulator this year and haven't had any charging problems since. I know I am a bit slow on all this but I just want to make sure I don't start spending $$ w/only have the plan in my head, like the spring kit. Thanks for all your advice, you too CJDave.
Regards,
fratt
77cj7304QtracTH400 (frame-off soon I hope)

fratt
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif I'm just looking at the book here, fratt, and I cannot tell for certain if the 78's had the correct distributor or not. I KNOW that the 79's did, but the wiring diagram on the 78 looks a little different, especially where the distributor plugs are concerned. You will want the "Blue Grommet" module and THAT distributor....AS USED on the 1979, so CHECK AND BE SURE. Your regular coil will be OK. So, just verify that everything you get is 1979 compatable and it will assure that you have the correct distributor. There IS one more item, and that is the little riser that goes under the distributor cap...a FORD part....common as dirt. The stuff is 1979 Ford 350 light truck V8 460. Riser, cap, rotor, wires, and module. Take a good look at the connectors in your Jeep and see if they look the same. The COLORS show the same, but still../wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif The alternator type won't matter. You understand that this work will result in a more precision timing and better coil saturation, but the real difference will come later on, from the MSD box, which; as Aaron has pointed out; will give you a sustained spark of approx. 1000 Milliseconds compared to 100 for non-MSD ignition. It will be cool, however, just to LOOK at that big cap and wire set on your Jeep in the meantime./wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif This is amazing. Two months ago, I did not have the faintest idea that you could do this, and now thanks to Aaron's teaching, we have a real alternative to HEI and the expense that goes with it./wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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I just got off the phone with MSD and they had a couple of revelations for me.
I'm working on a posting outlining them, and I will post it tonight or tomorrow morning.
(depending if I get lucky tonight or not,... Remember, I'm still a bachelor)

Fratt, CJ Dave and all others, answers are forthcoming..... DUI and Jacobs fans, spare your selves the humiliation, and skip right over the postings...

If a tree falls in the forrest, and there is no woman around to hear it, is the man still wrong?
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif I'll be cuddling Jeepchick while we read your post, Aaron. Jpck has had a tough week managing the dirtbags on her case load. It's FRIDAY and it's KICKBACK TIME!!! A roaring fire...a bottle of wine....the Jeepstuff catalogs....can it BE any better?/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 

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Yup! Add winning lottery tickets to above list....

If a tree falls in the forrest, and there is no woman around to hear it, is the man still wrong?
 
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