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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Scout with HD D-44's front & rear with D-300 T-case.
Good frame & solid undercarrage.

I have a '73 Jeep CJ-5 with 304/ T-15/ D-20 T-case/ D-30 Front/ D-44 Posi Rear.

I have a '75 Jeep J-20 Pickup with 360/ T-18/ D-20/ HD D-44 in front & HD D-60 with posi in rear.

I have a '79 Jeep CJ-7 with 360/ TH-400/ Q-Track/ D-30 w'disk front/ AMC 20 rear.
Q-track is junk, Frame is rotted out, and body is mostly shot, but clear title to both...

I have an '86 Grand Wagon with 360/ Auto/ NP T-case/ HD D-44 w'disk front/ HD AMC 20 rear.
In very good shape, trans is slipping and needs rebuilt or replaced.

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Here is the plan...

HD wide track axles/transfer case from Pick up to Grand Waggon.
Leave 360/ Auto, use D-20 T-case, use HD D-44/ HD D-60 Combo.

CJ-7 body to Scout axles.
Add 360 cid engine and TH-400 Trans or 727 Trans (have a couple of both)/ D-300 T-case/ Scout HD D-44 axles both ends.
Also have disk brake package out of FSJ for front axle.

CJ-5, stock 304, except for CJ-7 springs, disk brakes in front and maybe an upgraded transmission if I can find one...

Scout and Pickup body scrapped, Pickup frame is salvageable, and there will be two AMC 20's and one complete and one partial wagon front axles left over...
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This should give me a good Tow vehicle... The GW.
This should give me a good ORV Only...... The CJ-7.
This should give me a good 'Toy' Jeep.... The CJ-5.

Any other suggestions or combo's?
If so, I'd be glad to hear them...
 

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The Wagoneer is destined to be the tow vehicle but have you considered another use for it? I'm referring to a winter weather on the road daily driver. In that case, the NP-229 Select Trac transfercase would be definite keeper; 4wd with open center diff and axles is the way to go for on road snow travel. It would also give you a part time (locked) 4wd hi and low range (2.61, IIRC), when you would need it. Rebuild the Waggie's transmission and give the transfercase a good inspection and replace any suspect parts. You already know that the trans/t'case can live behind the 360. Install the J-20's axles and you'll have a good tow vehicle that you could use more often than you might have thought otherwise. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I had planned on using it as a bad weather commuter, even with the gas hog 360 under the hood.
We only have a week or two of really bad winter weather around here every year, so I should be able to deal with the gas bill...

Is the NP 229 strong enough to live in that capicity?
I hear BAD things...

I don't mind the auto trans, and I don't mind the HD AMC-20 rear, (The CJ 20 rears are JUNK) but the open rear has got to go and I don't want to lock an AMC 20.

I'm wondering how the vacuum crap on the front diff will hold up...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Is the NP 229 strong enough to live in that capicity?
I hear BAD things...

[/ QUOTE ]

Granted, an aluminum chain driven transfercase isn't as strong as a geared one, like the Dana 20, but you're not intending on making the Wagoneer into a purpose built off roader. Do you see it spending a lot of time in part time 4wd in off road situations? If you do then install the D-20; if you were considering to be your snow driver in addition to being a tow vehicle, the NP-229 is safer to use than any part time only case, geared or chain driven. To my way of thinking a purpose built tow vehicle doesn't do very much difficult off roading; that's what your CJs are for./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind the auto trans, and I don't mind the HD AMC-20 rear, (The CJ 20 rears are JUNK) but the open rear has got to go and I don't want to lock an AMC 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see any reason why you could not install the J-20 rear HD D-60. If you put a manual locker in it, like the ARB, then you could use it in open mode for on road snow use with the full time NP-229.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering how the vacuum crap on the front diff will hold up...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not specifically familar with the diso D-44 front but my 1986 XJ had the D-30 disco and I became familar with it out of necessity. Many years ago, I assisted bee240 (Bryan) with his YJ front disco troubles. We found out that the YJ and XJ vacuum systems were virtually identical. I would be surprised if the Grand Wagoneer system is any different. The biggest problem with them on the vacuum end that many owners would just cut and remove all vacuum systems that they considered unnecessary without finding out first what they do. (I believe that was the problem with Bryan's Jeep IIRC, the PO didn't understand the vac disco and just cut it out.) A Jeep vacuum disco system will work just fine, if it is properly maintained. I really don't see that as a problem in your case (as with Bryan); dedicated Jeepers do their maintenance.

The only time the weakness shows up in a disco axle it occurs when jumping the Jeep (the disco axle tube is weaker) and high traction situations with oversized grippy tires. What usually breaks first is the vacuum shift fork and/or collar. In XJs, these are very cheap to replace (a whole lot of them in junkyards) but, since the Wagoneer's D-44 is much rarer, you might not be able to find a replacement. The shift fork/collar for the D-30 and the D-44 may be indentical, I don't know.

Again, if the Waggie is not going to get lifted with big grippy tires and not doing any serious off roading, the disco D-44 front should be just fine.

JMHO, Good Luck with whatever you decide! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

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The problem I've seen with the vacuum disconnects - several times - is a bush or rock tends to grab and pull the vacuum line off. Tape it down so it's out of the way.

I think there are cable type fixes, but thinking about it - it's easier to replace a vacuum line than straighten a cable in the field.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's got about 4" of lift, and it's got 31's on it, and I'll probably stay with that arrangement...
I've got an extra Vacuum disconnect front differential, and I'm not too seriously worried about the HD AMC-20 rear for now.

Having to take the NP-229 and trans out so the trans can be rebuilt is what I'm worried about first.

That's a lot of work to do over again, and it's getting cool enough here for me to work in the garage again, so the trans rebuild is up and coming...

If I use the NP there is no need to take out the front axle, and I'm not changing the front unless I change the back too.
(Gear ratio thing, and the J-20 is 8 lug, the FSJ is 6 lug)

Why in the wide world of sports didn't they put a posi or locker in the back of these things when the V-8 was installed?

The most severe duty it should see is pulling stumps in the yard or trying to pull a trailer/Jeep out of the mud when I'm done with trails...
Shouldn't be too big of a challenge for that FSJ and AMC-20...
Suppose a posi unit in the rear is enough? or should I put in a 'Lunch Box' locker?
I don't see me doing anything REAL stupid, but I DO have my moments /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif...

That will leave me a full on set of axles for a future project if I use the stock axles...

Too bad I can't find a usable cab for the truck.
The frame is good, but the body and box are absolutely shot...
If I found a cab, it would be a 'Truggy' pretty quickly!

The CJ on a scout frame is going to be a good deal!
I have a good feeling about that project!
The Scout frame & axles just eliminate all the problems normally associated with CJ's...
Weak frame & weak axles are a thing of the past...
No more frame cracks, no more bent tubes, no more rust outs... Just what I need for a serious off roader.
Wonder why no one has suggested this before? Seems like a good idea... Guess we'll find out!

My little CJ-5 needs help!
Shot springs, manual drum brakes, and no power steering are the immediate problem.
I don't mind the manual brakes, but I really need discs up front.
I'm going to keep manual brakes, but it's getting discs this next week when I service the differentials and change axle shaft 'U' joints.

I don't mind the manual steering, it's the 400:1 steering box I don't like!
Takes 125 turns to change lanes!
Seriously, this thing must have 8 turns lock to lock! It's ridiculous!
I have all the power steering stuff, so it's not a problem...
I'm just not looking forward to the hanging up-side-down in the engine bay fitting a pump to the front of the engine!

Springs are getting upgraded to Wide CJ Style.
Those narrow springs are for the birds!
I've already bought square tubing and cut it for spring mounts. The only question is how much lift should I put in...
I'm thinking 3" should be plenty with a little CJ-5.
I'm considering doing the springs while the steering knuckles are off, saves time that way.
And since I'm lazy, I only want to do it once!
Don't know if I'm going to do shackle reversal or not...
Just have to wait and see how I feel that day!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Why in the wide world of sports didn't they put a posi or locker in the back of these things when the V-8 was installed?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Suppose a posi unit in the rear is enough? or should I put in a 'Lunch Box' locker?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason that AMC did not install a traction device in any of the axles on any Select Trac (NP-228, NP-229, NP-242) equipped Jeeps is that the system works best when it is completely open, all three differentials are open.

The only type of locker that would let the NP-229 perform to its potential would be a manual selectible one, like ARB, where the driver can unlock it into a true open position when in full time 4wd high range.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

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Sounds like a good plan. I think one of my buddies has a cj5 body on a scout frame with no frame strength issues. 1 Thing i would change is the scout d30/d44 lock outs to ford style internal lock outs and if it is a pretty much trail only rig throw in a set of flanges from 1 of your waggy axles. I have 2 buddies running 39.5 tsl's on scout d44's 1 kills a hub or shaft every time out, the other has killed 1 hub in maybe 5 years.


As far as transmissions go the 1 valid reason i've heard for keeping the 3 speed in your cj5 is the super quick/ easy 1st to reverse, the 1st gear is still way too high though. As far as tow rig transmissions go is your t18 a wide or close ratio t18? I have an sm465 in my tow rig, it's nice because it's strong with a granny gear but it sucks having huge gaps between gears and the non syncroed granny/ reverse gears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
T-18 is granny low, and it's like being hung up shifting from low to second!

Lockouts changed to either the Wagon set up or Warn premiums.
I don't trust the generic 'ATP' lockouts that are on the Scout.


So someone HAS done the CJ body to a scout chassis!
I'd like to talk to that guy! I have some questions!

I HATE the trans in the little jeep!
Worn out, big jumps between gears, and missing one forward gear! I don't like 3 speeds!
I need to stick in a 4 speed when I run onto one.
 

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[ QUOTE ]

So someone HAS done the CJ body to a scout chassis!
I'd like to talk to that guy! I have some questions!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's one of those rigs that has been around for a while and had 1/2 dozen owners. It's a hardcore cobbled yooper rig that used to be on 44" boggers with a 383 on the go juice (with scout axles). I bearly know the guy that put it together.

[ QUOTE ]
I HATE the trans in the little jeep!
Worn out, big jumps between gears, and missing one forward gear! I don't like 3 speeds!
I need to stick in a 4 speed when I run onto one.

[/ QUOTE ]

A t18 would be nice then, a close ratio one might not be bad for midwest wheeling. I really like the gear ratio in my buggy with the 5 speed, only time i want a lower gear is in the bigger rocks and i think i'm going to put in a doubler to make up for lack of a granny gear.
 
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