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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a major issue in the state, big money is involved and this could set a precident...Let me hear you feed back.
USE OF AMERICA'S NATIONAL FORESTS TESTED IN WHITE RIVER

By Jack Clinton

GLENWOOD SPRINGS, Colorado, February 23, 2000 (ENS) - What began as a
routine, mandatory revision of a management plan by Colorado's White River
National Forest, has become a nationwide struggle over the future of the
America's national forests. Either the forests will be silent untouched
havens for pure water, wildlife and touch-the-earth recreationists or they
will accommodate motorized vehicles and multiple human uses.
Copyright Environment News Service (ENS) 2000
For full text and graphics visit:
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/feb2000/2000L-02-23-02.html

BE SURE TO GO TO THE WEB SITE FOR THE FULL ARTICLE. OFF ROAD ACCESS IS
HANGING IN THE BALANCE, BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS VAIL IS IN AN UPROAR BECAUSE
THESE DECISIONS COULD AFFECT THEIR ABILITY TO EXPAND AS A RESORT.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm sure glad they extended the comment period to May. I requested the complete planning documents a few weeks ago, they came by mail today, a big box, 1800 pages. Sounds like a bit of reading.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, CRUNCH TIME GUYS.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 

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I am very concerned about this...I am originally from Colorado and still get back about twice a year to see family. I am very concerned that one day we will no longer be able to do anything but walk in National forests. I feel for Colorado...we have kinda done it to ourselves though. I remember the days of going into the mountains and not seeing another sole the whole time you are up there. I remember when you couldn't give away land in Colorado. Then came the Gambling...and then the gangs from CA and the drugs and all those sorry SOB's that decided they didn't like CA anymore...not to mention the hoards of freeloaders that have come North from Mexico to suck off my taxes. Then came the booming economy...so now all the tree huggers can afford to move to CO from CA and the dirtbags that work for minimum wage and draw welfare can afford to buy snowmobiles. All these people tearing up the forest and littering as they go gives all those Al Gore lovers ammo to fight us on the land issues. I remember flying over the mountains at night and seeing a few lights here and there...these days flying over the mountains is like flying over the outlying counties of Atlanta...people everywhere. So we have done it to ourselves, but now we must get involved and convince people that we can maintain the forests and police up the idiots that want to litter and tear up the place. Yea, I have strong feelings about CO...and for that matter all National Forests.

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JK
O|||O
78CJ5 258
 

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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Last summer Jeepchick and I took our Grand Cherokee to visit family in the midwest. On the way through Colorado we saw mile upon mile of yuppie condos, yuppie mansions, yuppie ski lodges, and yuppie court clubs and yuppie golf........well, you get the picture. SHUT DOWN were the mines, the forest industry, the hunting and outfitters......everybody was busy pounding nails in houses that NO NATIVE COLORADAN will ever be able to afford. Along with the yuppie scum comes their service economy, a lot of people making sub wages, and then comes crime to make up the lack of income, and the hangers-on to the criminals who temselves are parasites on society. WELCOME to the MILE-HIGH L.A.!!! The liberal scum from CA who will bring the social-engineering and the envirobullsh** that goes with it and the queers from Hollywood and well.....it's SO darn predictable. It makes me want to throw up./wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dave, don't throw up, start fighting back instead. Wanna help me sift thru 1800 pages.


Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't understand how they can close most of whiteriver. Up here in the Arapaho and Roosevelt National Forests we (as in most of the clubs) have an agreement and undergo training to be qualified as a forest service volunteer when we are hosting a trail run (whenever the club goes out on a club run). This program is focused in the Redfeather and Estes-Poudre ranger district. Once you go through the training you can get a forest service volunteer hat and magnet for your vehicle. All the clubs here also have adopted at least one trail in the district. There are 4-6 clubs that are involved or are getting involved in this. They are the Big Thompson 4 wheelers, CSU Big Wheels, The Mountaineers, I think the Canyon Crawler,and Weld County, and the Mile High Jeep club I think was interested in the program. We basically help people out by informing them about trail use and if we see illegal trail use (such as blazing a new trail) we explain to them that it is wrong and if they don't want to listen then we report them to the rangers. Also we clean the trails up (which people should do anyways), post signs if they forest service is under staffed, and report trail conditions so if a trail needs to be repaired. I'm not sure if this is an experimental program or not, but I think once we get everybody trained that it will be a successfull program; if Clinton doesn't close the land down.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7
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/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Here is the answer to the question: "I don't know how they can.........." The answer IS.....BECAUSE THE DIRTBAG WANTS TO! And any sitting prez who can get a blow job in the oval office and perjure himself REPEATEDLY with the full consent of the entire Homosexual-controlled, liberal infested, perverted Democratic party, has no reason whatsoever to imagine that he CAN'T do it! It isn't about land, or land use, or the forest, or the desert...it's about the Fu**ing DIRTBAG!!!The SOB does whatever he damn pleases and the democrats kiss his a** over and over. What a MESS!!/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

CJDave
I never believe any statistics unless my moonguys /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif made 'em up themselves.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tim, you are absolutely right about education. Unfortunately, education is a big part of the equation, but there are some downsides
to a prgram such as you mentioned. We've discussed this a lot on the Land Use bbs, and there are some real problems. The first
and most obvious is the fact that there are MORONS out there that will do illegal and stupid things no matter what you tell them.
The real downside to the type of program you mentioned is this: you catch somebody off trail, you tell them they are wrong, and if
they then tell you "f*ck you", you figure you can't help them and report them to the rangers. The BIG problem here is that then the
powers that manage our forests see this kind of behavior and use it as ammo to close EVERYTHING to protect it from the morons.
The only logical solution is that there currently (especially with the current administration) is no solution.

Brad
Get active or get locked out, the choice is yours.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tim and Brad,
You are both so right about the education of these morons. There are SO MANY people coming to Colorado and trashing it for those of us who are responsible. My family has been in Colorado for four generations and we have always been told to respect the land and the rules of the land. The imports just don't have any clue how much damage they are doing and how much ammo they are providing for the greenies. It just drives me nuts that Klinton is so hell-bent on making a name for himself amongst the tree-huggin, pine cone eaters!

 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is kind of off subject as far as Colorado goes but it is a land use story.
Two years ago, my first year hunting, we were in a area called high prarie, part of the Northern Cascades here in Oregon. There was me and my wife, my brother in law and another brother in law with his wife and 4 kids. We were hunting mind you. I know, get on with it. I just need to set the scene first. We had been there for 9 days and it was the last day. We were packing up. My bro in law with all the kids had his trailer up there, everyone else was in tents. We were about a hundred yards from a fairly nice out house. I know how can an out house be nice. It was maintained by the forest service and was always clean and didnt smell. Any way, the family in the trailer had been using the bathroom in the trailer for nine days. 6 of them for nine days. There is no place to dump the black water up there and he wasnt going to drive down hill with a full tank. So what did he do? Dumped it right there on the ground. I had all my stuff packed up and as soon as he did that, I left. I was so disgusted with what he had done. We were a hundred yards from the out house and they refused to use it. It was to far to walk. But it's o.k. to destroy the environment? To this day, I will not hunt with him. He lost all respect I had for him that day. The he has the nerve to ask me why I left and didnt help him break down his camp. I told him "I deal with enough sh*t during the week. I dont need to be walking in it too."

So how does one get involved in a group to help clean things up and bust the violators?

Sorry this was so long. Ignorance just infuriates me.

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You can get a group/club to clean things up a couple of ways. First you can adopt a trail somewhere and take care of it throughout the season. They other way is the club training that I explained in the earlier post. I'm not sure who talked to who first, but all the clubs in the area have an elected land useage position. All of these guys meet quarterly (sometimes more) with a Forest Service worker (same person everytime) who is an LEO and deals with dispersed recreation. They relay info to each other. The Forest Service worker is also the one that does the training of club members. They have folders with material, videos to watch and usually a day of hands on work. I would recomend that if you have a national forest nearby and a club then talk to the forest service personal and see if they are interested in trying a program like this. From what I have heard the program here started out and kind of still is experimental. On a side note we don't "bust" violater. We talk to them and then report them if they don't listen. It is recomended to us that we don't get into a confrontation with most of these people for our safety.

Tim Springer
1980 CJ7
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I understand that. I was using "bust" as a generic term for reporting them to the officials without using all the words. My bad. I will look into this further. Thanks for the info.

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