1. I went the link and saw:

In reply to:

By Entering This Site You Agree To Our Terms & Conditions Of Trade

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2. And didn't go any further...
3. IMHO, if the web site sucks,
4. So does the product.
5. I don't deal with those,
6. Who like to play games like this....
7. IMHO... Cavat Empor

 

Stear clear of that crap from K&N,that FIPK set up isnt what its cracked up to be,neither are their Cold Air set-ups they`ve sold since back around the early 90`s. We dyno proved K&N out the door in the GM performance dept.Still havent heard of anyone,anywhere getting anything near a double digit hp gain from "any" of their products.
If you work for your $$$ like most do,then ya need some bang for your buck,K&N = Big $$$ for little bang.The cheaper kits(tub/filter)will net you the same gains for 2/3rds less $$$
Your only going to shove just so much air into that 62-65mm TB so theres no sense in the wasted cents.

I truly hope K&N users arent offended,not my intent here,just a few simple facts from the real world that challenged the Corporate World and the little guys won !
Real bummer is for those that invested their funds.

My $.0¼

T/K

 

a friend of mine was running a cold air intake with the cone shaped filter, and liked it for awhile, but his motor needed a teardown from an unrelated overheating issue, and his cylinder walls were pretty badly scratched from dust entering through the filter.

stick with something quality at least.

 

So, with the related problems and lack of power gains for the buck... is it worth installing a kit??

I know about the K&N issues, I was advised against those!!

But how am I to know if installing an intake is going to damage my jeep or not??

What should I look out for??

The guys at DATOOR have a steel mesh filter with heat shield as part of the kit... is it worth going down this road??

 

You can net the same cold air air intake gains by removeing the snorkle from the end of the airbox,using a dremmel tool and cutting out the entire square end of the box,then installing a flat panel filter in place of the double media style thats common on Jeeps applications. Sorry I dont have that part # of the filter.Also removing the air silencer vains in the lid portion and blending till smooth the entire inside portion of the air box will help remove the turbulence affect caused by the vains in the lid. Thats why their there from the factory,they cause turbulance to eliminate air intake noise.
You`ll notice a huge difference the first time you smash the gas !!That puppy is BREATHING !!

Takes a little over an hour to complete this,I`ll try and get some pics of my set up to show the details

 

My wife's not gonna let me near her Liberty - in terms of cutting her 'baby' up!!!

She finds her Jeep to be sluggish and wanted to fit an intake. But now you guys got me worried!! We both want the performance but dont want to waste money.

When I say I have seen all the intake kits around, believe me, I have seen 'em all and found the DATOOR ones to look real nice.

I'm gonne wait to see your images, but the wifey, is set on DATOOR.

Will keep you informed on progress there and in the mean time lets see your pics. Thanks

 

I think to gain any noticeable amount of performance, you need to do more than bolt on a flashy looking intake. Cobmine the intake with a free flow exhaust, header, performance chip, bored out throttle body, ect. and it will all add up to better performance, but I think that those intakes are mostly for looks. Good luck, though. And if you do find that it boosts performance significantly, tell us so we can all get one. I am always looking for cheap horsepower!

 

I actually oredered them..
$360CAD for my Wrangler
$300CAD for the Liberty
including delivery!!
I'll let you guys know how things go!!
Supposed to be here late tomorrow or early Friday.
Hopefully these huys were not exagerating the delivery time

 

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$360CAD for my Wrangler
$300CAD for the Liberty

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Holy poop, i am in the wrong business, i just need a tubing bender, some spray paint and some shiny clamps and i could retire in a year.

 

In response to your comment about the cost of aftermarket products, I am constantly amazed at the amount of business the aftermarket companys are doing. I started attending JJamborees 8 years ago and a 'built' jeep then had f/r lockrites and 33s. Today guys show up in $500,000.00 buses pulling enclosed trailers loaded with $50k+ jeeps. I guess that all of this is progress or at least the evolution of our sport but it is intimadating at times. Like many others, I have way too much invested in my ole 84 cj to ever see the light of day so I guess I'll be like everyone else and keep on jeepin and upgrading as needed or mandated by breakage.

 

I`m kinda set in my old school ways,and our Motto will always be........
" CHROME DONT GET YA HOME and THERES NO REPLACEMENT LIKE CUBIC DISPLACEMENT "
You can order everything in a Jegs to bolt-on to a Jeep`s "exterior" motor assembly(both intake/exhaust)and still not be able to put it on a Dyno and show 30 RWHP(to the ground)gains over stock baseline numbers 3 outta 5 pulls.Cant happen !
Thats a pathetic waste of hard earned dough,you spend $$$$$ for a bunch A poo that isnt worth 1/3rd of what you paid for it once you remove it from the box and you`ll never see anything close to 1/3rd the HP gain they claim their part will net you.Some folks actually believe they can stack those advertised HP numbers on parts together and have xxx rwhp when their done ......... LMMFAO !!Not in the real world.What good is K&N`s 20 HP when your door handle deep in some gumbo ? anyway............
You eat return shipping charges when you return stuff,so when it comes full circle the consumer is at a loss all the way around.
FedEx got paid !
Jegs got paid !
Parts Mfg. got paid !

Consumer GOT OWNED !!

This isnt MicroSoft,there is no plug-play when it comes to make your pony giddy-up !
Mod Smart !

T/K

 

He He -- I've been wondering:

If I put on all the "increase hp" stuff, and all the "increase mileage" stuff that JC Whitney advertises --

Will I be able to slow down enough to empty the gas tank every few miles?
I know it'll be much faster with all those new horses, and it'll probably generate tons of gas from all the mileage stuff, but I don't want to dribble gas as I fly over the city.

 

:snicker:

 

I've heard the negatives about K&N, but --.

After every run I take a good hard look to make sure the aftermarket snout and K&N are tightly sealed.
I run a white paper towel up and down the snout (where filtered air is supposed to be,) then inspect it closely for any signs of dust getting in.
So far none. The paper towel always comes out clean.

I tried one of those AutoChina paper cone types - the towel came out dirty even after just a few miles in the street.

And before I went to the K&N I did the same test with the stock filter - dirty, not near as bad as the AutoChina though.

When I put on the K&N and snout, I could "feel" a difference - still not a racecar, but enough to notice.
After many years of Dyno testing in my experience it takes a change of nearly 5% to "feel" a difference. Since the Rubi is rated just under 200 HP, that should mean about a 10 HP change.

What would be nice is a K&N cone feeding into a big paper element - for a 2 stage filter - without restriction.
But finding room for it poses another problem.

 

The facotry air box in TJs are oversized for the 4.0 engine. By adding an intake you are throwing away money. If you are going to throw it away, throw it my way.

Dont buy a TB spacer either.

From what I do understand, a bored TB will help out the 'slug' in most newer Jeeps. Also the exhaust is mostly very free flowing from DC.

If you want functional cold air, buy a snorkle. It will allow you to traverse deeper water, and it is cooler air than under your hood. People that have these on newer Jeeps do claim an increase in MPG too.

IMHO- Chips in Jeeps are a waste. I have read of 2 PCM's getting fried because of such a thing.

 

Agree on the spacer -- ran it awhile without one ('03 Rubicon,) installed it - didn't feel any difference. (Advertising: Paper does not reject ink.)

If it was carbed or TBI where it can further atomize the fuel it would help, not PFI.

But -- you are saying then the stock filter -- with a NOTICABLE reduction in performance, and one that lets MORE DIRT IN is preferred?

The airbox itself may be large enough, but the actual air inlet's waaay too small. To prove it, simply put a vacuum gauge's hose inside the induction system -- if you show ANY vacuum under high RPM full load, it's restricting.
Mine showed about 1.5" of vacuum. With the snout and K&N, 0.
Run that white paper towel up and down the snout to check how the filtration system's working.

Matched flow injectors didn't make any improvment either.

Replacing the exhaust -- that big 5000lb muffler, with a smaller, lighter, better flowing one made a very noticable difference too.

I wish now I'd dyno'd it before and after.

 

Here is how I plead my case about the Stock Air-box:

Even if you remove that dang little Trumpet thing on it, You will get no better performance and my mpg did not move at all. Now the Intake tube its self is about the same size of the TB Bore. The hole in the front of the air box is about the same size as the intake tube and TB bore. Therefor the only "restrictions" are the Air filter and the TB it self. The 'flaper' in the TB is what restricts your air flow in to the engine, unless at WOT. But really, how many times are you at WOT in a 4.0???

The Rubicons exhaust is very free flowing compaired to previous years systems. It is fairly free flowing, aftermaket stuff will not improve your power to much. If there was a way to get Hi-Flow headers and Hi-Flow precats i would say the exhaust could help you out some.

 

Of course you tried a vacuum gage on it, right?

Sure - the openings are about the same -- but it creates turbulence. By what you said about the size of the opening -- by that theorey you could run a garden hose 10,000 feet as long as the size is the same as the valve without any loss in volume.
Yes, pressure would be the same along the full length, as long as the end is closed and there's no flow. But it won't flow very well.

Try something -- take the stock snout tube off the box - leave it on the TB. Not just the little trumpet, take the long tube off the box and leave it open for a test. Take it for a ride -- you'll feel the difference without the box. Now use an aftermarket one where the tube's even bigger.

The exhaust -- I had to put a different one on when I went with the long arms - the stock one was in the way. It made a very noticable difference!!!

Both the above, air cleaner, and exhaust -- they are not arm chair theories or speculation - they were real live improvements -- facts.

Wide open on a 4.0? Very often!

 

Now I am understanding where you are comming from. I have been living a sheltered life over at the Rubicon Owners Forum....

I have not tried the Vaccum gauge deal. (still looking for mine, as I have not used it at on the Rubicon)

I will go and try running with just the Large intake tube attached to the TB. Sounds very insteresting. But i will not try for long

What set up as in Intake and exhaust are you running?

 

I think it's called a Rock-it Products intake tube, uses a K&N on the end. There are several around I think.

The muffler/tailpipe -- It's not a so-called "performance" type, just a cheapie turbo muffler from a muffler shop.
I drove it down to the muffler shop before I changed the long arms, knowing the old exhaust would no longer fit. On the way home I noticed a very noticable difference.
Behind the muffler I used most of the stock bends.

The cat and ahead of it I haven't changed - looks like it doesn't restrict much, and being stock it's designed to work at all R's, not like headers where they have a nice peak, but the rest of the RPM range sucks.

I've also been experimenting with what's called an adjustable MAP sensor. It's actually a misnomer - not an adjustable sensor itself, but the supply voltage to it is increased. Normally it uses a 5 volt reference voltage, I've been slowly increasing the ref voltage to "trick" the ECM into giving more fuel. I can switch it from stock to higher voltage as I drive. It seems to help slightly, but barely noticable.

I wish there was an easy way to fool with timing advance.

I sold my shop a few years ago with my dyno -- sure do miss it!

Unfortunately these types of mods only help a tad here and there, nothing really significant. Another 200-300 HP would make it fun!!!

 

RRich,

Opinion and ideas please. The attached picture shows my 4.0L with the Rock-It tube and filter mounted close to the left of the grill. I would like to pull cooler air from the front of the grill (if any). If I made some type of enclosure to go around the filter and sealed it to the rectangular opening in the grill, would it be worth the effort or more trouble than the benefits gained. The filter has an inverted filtering area on the end instead of a cap like a K&N. TIA

GM

 

Hyper Teck Programer

This was just posted at the Rubicon Forum. Seems like you may be able to get some more power out of that stock PCM and set up. For $350 this might be ok. Seems that you will gain more power for the money vs. other set ups.

What about the adjustable Crank sensor?
Ever tried to move the Cam sensor around?

 

Biggest problem with were you have the filter is splash up from the fan and belts...I had my K&N there and it got all clogged up on one ride...now I've got it routed across the engine towards the passenger side sits over near the battery...lets air come up between the wheel well and the motor. Doesn't get as dirty there.

 

I'd think it'd be more trouble than it's worth.
But I'd do as advised, move it to where it gets cleaner air - mine's also right side by the battery -- even then.

Hypertech -- good that they are making something - last year I called them - "not yet." I've always found Hypertech to be quality stuff - good performance, and great tech help. Can't say that for the "others."

Crank/cam position sensors -- no, not yet anyway.

Too much electronics nowdays - difficult to recurve things, difficult to diagnose, -- everything's interelated. Bad ground on the heater door - engine misfires!
Not trail fixable - now when it blows --- you walk. You can't fix stuff with baling wire and duct tape anymore.

 

In reply to:

I wish there was an easy way to fool with timing advance.

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I only know of thisone . But you probably want to be able to tinker with it more yourself...