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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got coolant leaking from the top of the gasket and oil from the crank seal, so I thought it would be a good idea to change out the gaskets and seal. I haven't taken the timing cover off yet because I gave up for the day after trying to get one of the studs off the water pump (turns but doesn't come out...you know the kind), but I'm not sure that I understand how I will reseal the timing cover to the oil pan. I got a kit at the zone that has a ~8" piece of rubber, two corner looking pieces of cork gasket, the crank seal, and then the water pump and timing cover gaskets themselves. It will probably become very apparent when I take the cover off tomorrow but I'd like some heads up and tips about how to seal this area, because I don't want to fix a leak and start another :)

By the way, are the threads of water pump bolts supposed to be covered with RTV before installation? I put in a pump awhile back and I don't think I did that, and they are very rusty and that one stud still hasn't come out. It will probably be cut off and I'll just be one bolt short, but it has plenty already (why are those studs there anyway?) damn engineers........


JEEP, it's what's for dinner.


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Muddybronco
 

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They make you cut the oil pan gasket under the timing cover and piece it together. Use RTV Ultra Black and it won't leak. I think the studs ar to mount the accessory brackets. The rust is typical. And it sounds like the one stud is stripped. Does it just screw into the timing cover? or through the cover into the block? The block is cast iron and that usually doesn't happen. Usually, it will just break. If it's screwed into the cover (aluminum) that explains everything. Try putting a pair of vice-grips on the stud and pry on it as you turn it out. Then you'll have to heli-coil it. If you don't, you might have a leak. If you have a bench grinder with a wire wheel...clean the rust off the bolts and studs. Then coat them with never-sieze. They'll come right out next time.


Hope this helps.

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 

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How many miles on the engine? Check the slack in the timing chain. NOW is the time to change it if it's sloppy.

An Edelbrock double roller is pretty cheap and will last longer than the engine.

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
10-4, I'm definitely going to check the slack and replace it...perfect opportunity. I'll pick up that ultra black, I've got some red "high temp" stuff but if black is best I'll grab that. Not sure how far in that bolt goes, I'm hoping just into the cover so that I can just leave the water pump hanging there while I take it off, and I'll deal with it on the bench. I also realized that my $40 NAPA belt is already coming apart on the front edge because of a rough edge on my P/S plastic pulley...I should have replaced it while I had it off doing the P/S pump, but that crack in the pulley has never been a problem before. Maybe the pulley is too far back on the pump shaft, but it's where the instuctions said to put it. Ahh, the fun never ends :)

BTW, that stud has a bolt right above it and below it, so if I sealed it up well would I really need it? Nothing attaches to the actual stud part either.


JEEP, it's what's for dinner.


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Muddybronco
 

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Dunno...you can try sealing it, but if you have it on the bench, I'd try like hell to get it out first.
Ulrta black is the best but it's like 10 or 11 bucks for the cheese wiz can.

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yeah, if it's just into the cover i'll probably get it out but if it goes into the block then it's getting cut.


JEEP, it's what's for dinner.


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Muddybronco
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OK, doing pretty well here, but i'm stuck on the big balancer bolt in the center of the crank. Is it reverse thread or something? Haynes says it's only 80 ft lbs but it's probably never been off so that would explain why it doesn't want to budge. I had my 16" socket driver wedged against the steering box while trying to rotate the crank clockwise with a 19" crescent wrench on two of the ears of the balancer and it just would not budge. What is the secret here? Oh yeah, and I've heard it's bad to rotate an engine backwards...is CCW facing the crank backwards(i hope)? I've got a friend with a sh!tload of air tools but his compressor is defunct, I might have to break down and buy one...that would be fun...i love the sound of impact guns.

thanks for any advice on this matter...it's turning out to be a more involved process than planned for (as always)
later


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Muddybronco
 

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No its not reverse thread but your not getting true force on the bolt by trying to turn the crank instead of the wrench on the bolt. Try to find some way to wedge the balancer instead but be careful if you use bolts in the balancer pulley bolt holes, easy way to bust your knuckles or crack the balancer.
I once used a big adjustable on one of the flat spots on the balancer and wedged the wrench against something, but since i got an air compressor, an IMPACT is the way to go.
 

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If it's never been off before...maybe it's got lock-tite from the factory. I've always used an impact gun so I don't know what to tell ya, except that he's right. Wedge the crank and apply all your force on the bolt.

If you're facing the crank pully...clockwise is the direction of engine rotation.

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 
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Well, with 156,000 miles on my 87, the cam gear just got stripped, so I am doing pretty much what you are trying to avoid. I have the exact same problem with one of the cover bolts not wanting to come out. When I finally got it out, it had broken. Luckily I had about half an inch sticking out of the block so vice grips got it out. Oh, yeah, an impact gun makes short work of the crank bolt.

Mark Lockwood
82 Trailblazer
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's rare that I come across a situation where I NEED (not just want) air tools and this is one of them. I think I can get it off without them but it's gonna "take some doin". How much torque does the starter make? I could wedge the bar like I already did and just bump the starter, I wonder if that would impact it loose? And if the engine starts that bolt will come out REALLY fast. I'll get it off one way or another, but what does it take to put it back on? Haynes mentioned an installer but then said the bolt could be used instead...? I'll let yall know how it goes.


JEEP, it's what's for dinner.


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Muddybronco
 
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haha, couldnt u just put the tranny in park and put a long pipe on ur breaker bar to crack the bolt loose? that has always worked for me, worst case is someone has to hold the brake peddle if the truck starts rolling;) if u are gonna get a air wrench, i just got the campell hausfield at walmart for like 60 bucks, 380 lb-ft 1/2" drive is really fun. pulled the leaf spring bolts right out of my 84, that had never been out before. took a lot less effort then the one on the otherside turned by the aformentioned pipe and breaker bar. just my insight.

Dominic

"MUD BUCKET" 1984 bronco, 88 302, 32x11.5 , a true ******* in the riceboy heartland of north jersey
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah, the tools are cheap, it's the compressor I'm thinking about. What do you use? I think I want at least 5 cfm at 90 psi so most are around 200 bucks. I've always wondered about the quality of campbell hausfeld stuff because they sell it at walmart, but then I saw one of their compressors on one of those TNN shows so I figured it must be decent. I have a CH pressure washer that I got at wally world and it's great. I used to know a guy with a craftsman compressor and he told me that they aren't covered by the normal lifetime warranty at sears and that he'd had problems with his and trying to get it fixed, so....dunno.

At first I was thinking just put it in park but the park pawl just locks the output, not the input. If it locked the input then you wouldn't be able to start the engine. Now, I might be able to put it in gear and chock the wheels, but the torque convertor would probably just let it spin.

I think I just need a breaker bar that won't bend so easily, because it's absorbing the initial torque that I apply and that's probably keeping it from breaking loose. I need some 3/4" dr. stuff anyway, so off to sears I shall go.

thanks


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Muddybronco
 

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Muddy, do you have a acetylene torch? If you do try heating up the head of the bolt cherry red then try to back it out.
it will fry the front seal behind it and stink like hell but thats the ONLY way i can get the bolts off some of the cams on some of these late model imports. Works great.

NAW, then again probably not a good idea. Flames like that around an engine compartment could prove to be disastrous./wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif
 

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Craftsman compressors are only warranted for 90 days. Putting it in park won't work. It only locks the output shaft and yes... the torque converter will spin.

Putting the dampener back on is touchy. If you plan on using the bolt to press the dampener back on, hit the dampener on with a dead blow hammer or mallet as far as you can first. If the bolt only catches by a couple of threads before it starts to press the pulley on...you'll strip the threads.

Ah hell...just bring it to Joisey...I'll do it fer ya! =)

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah, I got it...no big deal. My timing chain has ~5/8" deflection so I'll be getting a new one of those too. Don't really want to wait on mail so I'll probably go with a NAPA piece (to humor steve). What are the little sleeves in the lower bolt holes for?


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Muddybronco
 

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Little sleeves, You must be referring to the alignment dowels on both sides of the block where the timing cover bolts up i assume?
they just do a good job of holding the gasket in place till you can get the cover on...

 

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Hey Muddy...stupid question...does your cam gear have nylon teeth or steel?
Just wonderin...I know in the 70's and and early 80's they were all nylon (supposedly quieter). Even a stock replacement with a steel cam gear will last longer than the engine.
anyway...happy wrenching.

The trouble with being on top...You always have to look over your shoulder. The best never rest. Fear the FORD thunder!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i drive a ford. plastic parts are for toys. :) Didn't notice, but I will when I take it off. Also, something on the cam sprocket looked off center, but I didn't study it very hard before giving up that day. (105 heat index, bah!) It was like a collar that went around the cam bolt, but wasn't centered? I'll have to look again. What is the best approach to bolting this thing back on and getting a good seal? The kit from autozone (it's fel-pro, give me a break :) ) doesn't seem to be quite right because the holes in the little cork corner pieces didn't line up with the oil pan holes. Will the oil pan flex enough to seal up nicely after the cover is bolted to the block?

I know that's a heap of questions but the only reason I'm doing this is because the seal was leaking, so if it's still leaking when I'm done then I will be mega pissed.

thanks


JEEP, it's what's for dinner.


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Muddybronco
 
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