Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I never quite understood how they came up with the market research as to what people wanted in a car or truck. We've gone from function to looks in a very short time. I also find it strange that the automakers are charging a hefty premium for SUV's and not for cars. What drives me even crazier are those that pay the bloody price for them without a second thought. I guess that whole status symbol thing has been taken to the extreme. And for cryin' out loud, if you're not going to use 4-wheel drive, please don't buy one!

Hell, I would love to see a 'back to basics' type truck out there. Personally, I think both Toyota, F**d and Chevy would make a killing if they went back to a solid axle truck as part of standard option (instead of special ordering, and you can't even do that with a Toy). But now there's this whole perceived value of things (where people actually think they get what they pay for), and the fact that automakers are getting sued over every little thing that goes wrong with people doesn't help much.

And as far as that whole '70s wholesale prices thing goes? Don't count on getting the good deals. I'd bet the price of one of those suckers would triple from what they were offered in the '70s...

J.R. - http://jrsmail.home.att.net
Wanna buy me a race truck? /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I suppose that the consumer dug themselves in the hole on this one. In the 80s when imports were becoming popular and the big 3 produced a bunch of junk many people would buy a new car every 2 years because they were so crappy. I suppose that the Big 3 thought that their stuff was really popular and selling so well. If just one person in America would offer quality products at a very cheap price without really trying to make a killing on every sale the entire market would turn upside down. Not to mention that that one person probably getting killed or protected very well. I suppose that greed has something to do with all of this.

Greyghost
77 Jimmy
"Smith and Wesson, the original point and click interface!"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

They sell 'em for what they do 'cause they can. When the economy goes sour (and it always does), that'll change. But, I don't quite get the Saturn thing. I've priced Saturns & they're no cheaper than many larger cars - like a Taurus or a stripped Plymouth mini-van - PLUS you can't negotiate the price on a Saturn. I paid $1,000 less for a loaded Chevrolet Malibu (V-6) than I would have for a similarly equipped (but much smaller, 4-cylinder) Saturn. And that wasn't even at "rebate time".

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

We've become a materialistic culture that is a slave to trends. When it became trendy to have a truck or an SUV, they sold like crazy-hence a huge price increase. They make vehicles (trucks) for comfort now, not to go to work. Have you noticed some of the truck adds are targeting women (who happen to be a large truck owning group)because its sexy to have a truck. Just try to bargin with a dealer on the price of a truck and chances are you won't budge him too much because trucks sell and if you won't buy it, the next guy will. I refuse to pay almost as much for a truck as for my home. I will not buy a new chevy because of this (sorry fellas). I'll just keep rebuilding my old one until there is nothing left to rebuild, and when I get tired of it, I just go to the dealer and one look at the price makes me like my truck again.

Mark

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I'd like to see every truck that is being used as a status symbol donated to someone who will actually *use* the 4 wheel drive *off road* or at least something other than just snow. Doesn't help much in snow anyway, so that's not a big reason for having it. Front wheel drive will do just about as good as a 4x4 in snow, and if it gets too deep for the FWD car, you're better off on a snowmobile anyway. People who just buy their status symbol trucks/SUVs are just wasting parts, that otherwise, would most likely be relatively inexpensive. I will never buy anything new anyway, because I like the simplicity of the older stuff to work on. Don't need the $5000 machine to diagnose problems with the computer in it and things like that. Less stuff to break, and that's always why I never liked fuel injection.

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"
/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 GMC Suburban 4x4 and '85 GMC S15 4x4

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

Another thought just hit me about this. We buy a car or truck. It is, techically, OUR truck. But we have to make sure that certain things are maintained and kept on OUR truck. Things like smog devices, which we have to keep on there according to law and maintain. WE pay for smog checks (at least here in CA) on OUR vehicle, else we can't drive OUR vehicle on OUR roads.

Now on to the registration thing. I perfectly understand that we have to pay fees to the DMV to drive OUR trucks and cars on what would be referred to OUR roads. Theorectically, we are paying fees to maintain OUR highways and roadways, so that we can drive OUR vehicles on safe roads. I have no problems with this. My problem with the whole setup is thus. I get to pay a price yearly, which goes down, based on the retail value of my vehicle. A person with a 1970-something car or truck is going to pay less than me (I have a '98 S-10, for example). In other words, I am being punished for driving what some might say is a kindler, gentler, GREENER car or truck, but I pay more for that help. Why can't we have a nice, flat fee?

And to make matters worse, if I am not mistaken, those road fees paid in CA DON'T EVEN GO TO MAINTAINING ROADS. THEY HELP PAY FOR THINGS LIKE SOCIAL SERVICES, ETC. (someone please correct me if I wrong)...

I know I'm on a rant here, but I have to vent this out...

J.R. - http://jrsmail.home.att.net
Wanna buy me a race truck? /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I suppose I'm fixin to light up someone, but what the hey? You can thank all the unions out there for the prices of your vehicles, when you're paying some jerk over $25 to push in screws that you teach a trained monkey to do as well, well add them monkeys add up $$$$$$. The unions accomplished what they sent out to do now get rid of 'em. After getting a first hand experience in seeing how the Teamsters union functions, I believe that Jimmy Hoffa is alive they just have him hid somewhere! I for one could not afford the payments let alone the Insurance on a new vehicle, not that I would buy one anyway.... I'd rather have someelse lose their money I'll buy it used and run the wheels off of it. I have yet to run a vehicle less than 275,000 miles, but I'm getting off the subject the $$$$$$ of new vehicles, you'll never convince me thats theres 35,000 dollars worth of sh## in a new 4X4 Chevy, it just ain't there again you're paying all the monkeys. The Unions are the only people making out, I mean the union leaders and their flunkies, I would think the average person to be smarter than to join a Union but when forced to make a decison on weither to work at a place or not if you don't join, gezzz there ought to be some Constitutional right being violated there....That is one reason I am self employed I listen to no one (except my Wife)(LOL) tell me what to do!!!!!Much less force me into any situation. enough ranting now I'll sit back and wait for the usual union retoric concerning this issue, it hasn't changed in 50 years, so much for progress.....White Knight

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

Gee.....Anyone want to buy a used SUV and pickup? I'd donate them, but I need the money to put a down payment on my new Saturn. Do they make them in front wheel drive? Oops, almost forgot, I'll need the new large Saturn to pull my new snowmobile trailer in case I go to see my folks and it snows. Now that thats settled, what to do with that assault rifle thats collecting dust in the corner......

Mark

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I'm looking for a couple of pounds of C4 that is collecting dust so I can perform some demo ops on the neighbors Expedition. He was ticked off because he had to park it outside during Hurricane Floyd. Oh well as long as somebody thinks that they are getting what they paid for, and somebody thinks they gave somebody something they paid for well all be in trouble. I suppose that it is the cost of doing business.
I figure that after I rebuild the Jimmy I will only have 1/4th the cost of what a new one is. (Plus the satisfaction of many busted knuckles, several hundred gallons of beer, god only knows how many fights with the wife on why I need a NEW aluminum intake and the comraderie of people that enjoy the same interest!)

Greyghost
77 Jimmy
"Smith and Wesson, the original point and click interface!"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I know what you mean. I just finished puting mine back together after a 3 angle valve job, port and polish, new cam timing chain and a few other goodies. The cuts are now just healing on my fingers and I should have the odd leaks and adjustments fixed and made soon. I would be embarrased to tell you about the number of bolts I've broken and how many times I had to put a few things back together twice(experience is another word for suffering). The more I read the more I want to do. My wife is hiding my new Summit racing catalog I just know it. But, everything I do is still cheaper than payments for 5 years, and I know what I have when I'm done.

Mark

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

It's all perseption my friends. When we were kids most of use were riding in the back of station wagons. All a SUV has become is a stationwagon of the 90's for most people the problem comes down to ego and one upping on the Joneses. In the 80's it was the mini van. The fact of the matter is for some reason the very reasonable minded and pratical station wagon has developed some sort of stigmata of not being kewl. Very few people who drive SUV's acctuly use them to their original intent. The original intent was to be for the working people to use to move several people and materials. Well the folks who felt like they were old driving a station wagon like their parrents are jerking off their EGO's by driving a "Rugged" looking SUV. As the rusult those of us who actully need one are forced to pay for the ego stroking and creature comforts them poser SUV drivers wanted. The bottom line is it's cheaper for the auto manufactures to build them all alike with cushy riding suspension on their base platform. Those that acctuly will give up the ride quality to get the ruggedness and ease of modification that solid axle trucks have are a very small percentage and economics says that there is no proffit to even bother offering it as an available option when the vast majority of the buyers prefer the ride quality.
Like the one poster said for people like us it's cheaper to just keep rebuilding them every few years than it is to pay a $500 payment on a new one. I guess even I am somewhat guilty of the ego stroking. I have 2 SUV's (2 K5s) My wife drives one ( At least it gives her a fighting chance when some soccer mom screaming at her kids yapping on the cell phone while jamming a burger down her throat in a vehicle she has no respect for it's mass slams into her. In deffence of my wife she can wheel the beast with the best of them ) the other is a pure pleasure vehicle for back woods jaunts. In my diffence the one I run through the woods is a real budget vehicle. The other has for the most part been rebuilt from one end to the other and right now it would be impossible to regain my investment to sell it. It has another 100K before it should need any major repairs so we will keep driving on till I hit the lottery and even then I have a feeling I would just paint it and replace the interrior and keep on driving it before lumping down $30-$40K to get anything close to what it is cabable of.

Grim-Reaper

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I can't believe you called a K-5 an SUV. I know my '79 will never hold that status. At a $431 initial purchase price, it will probably never exceed $5000. And it will get about 10 mpg with no cats or emissions since I cut all that crap off. The government will not run my entire life from its posh office chair. I won't allow that. And neither will the auto manufacturer. Well, there's my rant and rave for the evening.

laketex
'79 K-5 Blazer
Sherman, Texas

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

Geez people lighten up i know it sucks that a 2wd v8 pickup with power nothing comes in at over 20 grand let alone 4wd(the reason i had to go with a used truck)
but it is a trend for everyone to have a truck or SUV and trends pass it may take a few more years but something new will come along eventually and all your neighbors will have to have that instead and companies will start charging an arm and a leg for that trend (you just have to ride it out)
also on a side note rest assured my mom uses her SUV (97 ford explorer) like it should be she sells medical supplies and she loads that sucker down till the back end is saggin plus my parents use it for camping and light trail use

sorry just had to rant about people ranting

he he
so at least there is one person who is not after a status symbol

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I suppose that people will always be amazed by human nature. I have seen quite a few "SUVs" doing things that they were intended for. I saw a Yukon Denali hauling a landscaping crew of 5 guys and towing a trailer loaded with all of the riding mowers etc.

I've been in the Army for about 7 years now and am still amazed at the amount of Hummers that I see stuck in the woods because the soldiers don't know how to operate the 4 wheel drive system. Two privates were looking for a ride to call the wrecker, afraid of some type of punishment for getting the vehicle stuck. I checked out the situation and locked the Tcase in 4lo and backed right out!

I would love to get one of the Hummer knock off body conversions for the Jimmy! You can buy one of those complete for $15,000. I like the Hummer but I am not very confident in it's 4 wheeling abilities. I'd rather put the conversion kit on my frame and have the solid axles any day of the week!!!

Greyghost
77 Jimmy
"Smith and Wesson, the original point and click interface!"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

There's a guy in Illinois that uses a Cadillac Escalade to tow his mud racer. How's that for a luxury tow vehicle?

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

The reason you see so many Hummers stuck is because no one is taught how to operate the vehicle off road. It does have its limitations, but it is the best off the shelf off roader today. There are too many "couch potato" nintendo generation people who have never had to go off the road and don't know how to drive a 4X4. One time I had to teach a troop how to put the vehicle in hi lock so we would make it back to post-this was in Alaska in the winter. I grew up in the sticks in Pa and had 4X4s all my life and brought the experience with me. I read that some SF dudes were taking classes from some "off road" school to learn how to drive the Hummer to its full potential. Maybe the military would benefit from this type of "school".

Mark

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I can see it now a want ad for the army; Wanted Qualified instructors to teach raw recruits how to offroad in Hummers, free hummer to drive to those qualified,pay to equal experence! Free Dental and Medical Insurance, Chance of Lifetime. Must past Drug Test... HMMMM I wonder how many would sign up?!!!..White Knight

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

When I was taught to drive Hummers in the Marines, we had a 3 day off-road driving class, as well as instruction on how to perform maintenance, etc. We even spent an entire day waterproofing the rig with boiler putty (talk about a pain in the butt!)so we could drive down the loading ramp into the ocean up to our necks. That was pretty cool...

Steve M
1973 K20
"Heavy guns - Reach out and touch someone"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

I was in a reserve unit in Pa and we fielded Hummers in 88. We spent every weekend driving them in some pretty adverse conditions. I successfully forded water up to my belly button (while standing I am 5'9") without a fording kit. I have never been stuck in a Hummer I guess I just prefer live axles and a suspension that flexes. The HMMWV is very stiff and doesn't generate enough power to turn the tires to clean them out. Whenever we go out in the woods I try to train as many people as I can about the 4 wheel system. They are amazed when I tell them that the Hummer when in normal H is only front or rear wheel drive!. Once you lock the Tcase though....

Greyghost
77 Jimmy
"Smith and Wesson, the original point and click interface!"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

SUV = Sport Utility Vehicle. If you look at your registration a K5 should be listed as Utility...This by deffinition makes it a SUV.

Oh by the way you paid to much! I only paid $1 for my 75 and drove it home.

Grim-Reaper

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

Grim - yes & no. The term "Sport Utility Vehicle" was first used to describe the S-10 Blazer when it came out in '83. Full-sizes were simply called Utility Vehicles until some years later when the manufacturers started calling their Full-size Utilities "Full-size SUV". Yeah, I know I'm getting anal here. Just thought I'd jump in for /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif & /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

They were all "trucks" to me, right until the F**d Exploder came into play. Then it all went downhill from there.
/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif

J.R. - http://jrsmail.home.att.net
Wanna buy me a race truck? /wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

A Blazer used to be a...Blazer. The meanest rig I had was a 74 BLAZER (hell, I didn't even know it was a K5 until I ran it for awhile). Then, chevy got fancy and now the blazer is just another SUV. (notice the # of soccor moms driving them?) Just look at what chevy is doing to the Malibu and the Impala now. If they try and name something a Chevelle, I'm gonna puke. Its our own fault because we pay for the "new and improved" cars and trucks. If there were no market, the fancy stuff would go away. Either that or I start buying stock in GM and join em cuz I can't beat em.

Mark

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

Someone (I think some people actually on a BBS actually have) should lump all the trucks that are worth the rubber they roll on into it's own category. And it should not include things such as a Subaru wagon, a RAV4 etc. It should also have a name that has nothing to do with "Sport", "Utility", "SUV", "FAV" or anything like that. They should also meet other requirements such as but not limited to: Reasonable purchase price, decent drivetrains, easily upgradable, (I will not specifically state solid front axle) etc. Finally they should have their own NAME that is also not limited to these specific adjectives: "BAD ASS TRUCKS" Imagine the implications.........BATs heckuvalot better than "Sissy Ass SUV" .....SASUV
That is what I have said. I am also open to any suggestions for different names etc.

Greyghost
77 Jimmy
"Smith and Wesson, the original point and click interface!"

 

Re: Cars and Trucks for the Workin\' Man

They wouldn't build them if there wasn't a demand for them. Try and find any vehicle today that doesn't seem to be expensive. It's just a fact of life, prices go up, hopefully your salary does too. If you can't afford a new truck, then buy a used one or order one that doesn't have alot of options. Does Chevy still make the W/T? That was their attempt at a truck for the working man. If they stopped offering it then I guess people really don't want a stripped down truck. I personally like some creature comforts in my truck and I do find the new Z71 prices to be high, but what are going to do.

Alan
'95 GMC extended cab Z71