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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have an '80 CJ-7 with a 350 (330 hp), TH 350, Scout II D44s, SOA with 2" springs, 1" body lift, and 35x12.50 BFG MTs. Since I've now decided to keep my stock '88 Toyota p/u, I can devote my Jeep to wheelin'. It will still be my daily driver (maybe 5-6 miles a day) with the Toy making all longer trips. I'm wondering if Boggers or TSLs would make a huge difference off-road in mud and rocks? Also, what size should I go for without endangering my D44s? Does anyone know someone with any Swampers in good shape for sale? Anyone need some 35" BFGs with 90% tread? Just curious, how many miles should I expect out of Boggers and TSLs? How about the SSRs? Thanx!

 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I am running a set of 35x16.00x15 Boggers on my 79 CJ-7. It has a pretty similar setup that you are running in your jeep now except that I sill have a 30 front(hope to change that soon). You can expect the boggers to wear quicker on the road than the TSL's but in my opinion the Boggers are the way to go in the rocks and dirt, they really get a bite when they are aired down. Your 44's can handle the 35's pretty good. I have been lucky enough not to really break my 30 too bad that it can't be cheaply and easily fixed. When I get my 44 for the front then I think that most of my worries will be over.

 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have to disagree with Peanut on this one. I am originally from Oklahoma as well and the Bogger is a great tire there. I now live in Phoenix(near all kinds of rockcrawling) and am running 35x15.5 SXs. The boggers wear really quickly as a street tire. The entire Swamper line rides like crap on the road. Balancing a set of Swampers is a waste of money. They are the best off road tire you can get though, but for rockcrawling you'll need beadlocks as well as a tire groover to get the most out of them. Since you are from the east, I'd say get the Boggers even after saying all of the above. My reason is that while the SX is the prefered tire in dry climates for it's puncture resistance as well as its better-than-a-Bogger on dry rock traction, the Bogger is better in mud, which I'm sure you see plenty of. WARNING: neither is a good street tire at all. The SSR is somewhat better on the street but it is very puncture prone. The sidewall is nothing compared to the SX. Just my 2 cents.
Sean

 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've been running 35" SSR's for about 5,000 miles and they are a lot more quiet than my SX's. I love my SX's I'm not dis'n them I'm just saying I like my SSR's better. Also on the side was thing according to Petersen's the sidewall of the SSR is just as thick as the SSR, it's just the SSR is mostly on the inside. If anyone wants info on that tire comparison let me know and I'll dig out the mag.

Later,

SandSpyder 1995 YJ Rio Grande, 4.0 HO, 4spd. Auto, 4.56:1 w/ARB's
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
has anyone ran the 38x11 boggers skinny tires I know a few people on this cite before were runng 33x9.50
Are skinnys the way to go in the mud?? or wide tires better
doess weight matter?? I a have a 83cj7 and soa and a 360 v8 (i can clear the 38 no problem)
The reason why I brought this up is because they are close to the same price as the 35x14 inch boggers.

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I may have a lead foot or somthing.I have a set of dana 44 under a scrambler running 35/14.50/15 boggers,and I've managed to mangle every axle in the thing.I love the boggers,but with the 350 and low gears a dana 44 is no where near bullet proof.I think that the bfg's are more forgiving when you start hopping around where the boggers will find somthing to cling on and give to much traction.From what I've seen,the swampers still break enough stuff but tend to spin alittle better

 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The guys in TN really like the way Boggers grip slimy rocks. But, for pure mud, you want TSL's - especially on the front. Boggers are HP robbers & tend to dig in when you lose momentum, where TSL's will continue to pull you forward. And in spite of what you'd think, 36X12.50's will absolutely SPANK 35" TSL's or Boggers in deep mud - especially if it's thick.

Boggers do hook up better on greazy stuff that's realatively shallow. The 38.5X11 Bogger is the tire of choice among Super Stock mud draggers. They don't do as well in deep stuff where the setup is typically 39.5" Swamper front/39.5" Bogger rear. Keep in mind, these Super Stock trucks are making 700HP or more & can really take advantage of the big rubber. A handful of 2,800 lb machines run 39.5" Boggers at all 4 corners & float on top like a "Modified" would. 100 MPH of tire speed helps.

In our 36" Street class, none of the competitive machines have Boggers in the front & only a handful run them in the back - typically 400 HP or more. We had no official points' series this year, but the 36" winner & 2nd place in '98 both had 34X9.50 TSL's - I was 3rd with 38X12.50's. This year, I took the most victories on Q78's (basically 35.5X11) & my closest competitors had 36X12.50's in the front & 35X14.50 Boggers in the back. We run bog-style pits.

So, to sum up, I'd say that the Boggers would be your best bet if you run nasty Tellico-type trails. If your trails are mild & your mud is deep, I'd pick TSL's & preferably narrow ones. If you're worried about how they'll go on the highway, you don't want either. Both suck on-road.

Link to Interco Tires

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
http://G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 

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My vote is for BFG's if you want an all around tire.
I've run 35 boggers and sold them because I don't have enough horsepower to use them ([email protected])

i am running Q78 buckshot mudders (36") and like them very much, (after i had them trued)they are very very load but i think they are a great narrow tire for digging to the bottom to find traction.

i believe they are still the best tire for mud-drags front and rear if you have limited horsepower expecially on a fast track, because they dig straight to the bottom and aren't as heavy as Boggers and Swampers.

just my 2 cents........

3/4tonYJ
My Jeep Page
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Buckshots are great Fast Track tires & you're right, Boggers aren't the way to go even in shallow stuff if you have a small motor. East Beast has a healthy 350, so I didn't mention that. And I should have said that my Q78's are actually TSL's. Around here, the 4-6cyl guys prefer 34x9.50 TSL's for Fast Track and Pit racing, but I'm sure the Buckshots would do well also. And radial Buckshots aren't bad, either. Probably the only radials I'd consider if competition were in my future (haven't seen SSR radials in action, so they might also do well & the narrower "new pattern" TSL radials aren't bad, either).

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I can only assume Sandspyder meant to say that the SSR is just as thick a sidewall as the SX. There is NO WAY this can be true. I've run plenty of trails with guys with SXs and SSRs. I've only seen one really badly cut-but still holding air SX. I've seen plenty of shredded SSRs. The two aren't even remotely in the same league when it comes to puncture resistance. For example, I have a friend who's put splines from a barrel cactus through the sidewall of his SSRs. I've driven through tons of it and only get the needles stuck in the sidewall. Just an example....
Sean

 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have to agree with Sean here. I've not seen SSR's on the trail, but I have some friends with 'em. And while they do offer decent protection for a radial, they can't be as tough as an S/X. There's no way.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
unless you have big HP boggers are worthless. they also lack lateral grip(not good if you have to sidehill or drive in the winter). a common setup here in the NW if to run 36x12.5 SXs front, 35 boggers in the rear. this is a good mud setup as you wont dig down as much or break as many front axles. my pref is the SXs, but the downside to them is the stiffer sidewall.
as far as BFGs go, if you drive mostly on the street they are a good compromise. they are quieter, have much better street manners, and last much longer. they are not a bad mud and rock tire, just not as agressive as a swamper.

dan

I do not intend to offend,I offend with my intent
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Our pure mud machines around here don't run S/X's at all. The reason? More $$, stiffer sidewall, more weight, & just about all S/X sizes are available as standard TSL. And here's sort of a shocker - the standard TSL grips better in mud. Take a look at each in the same size & you'll see what I mean. The S/X's are just a LITTLE less aggressive. Now, having said that, the sidewall of the S/X is fantastic at absorbing punishment & looks pretty cool too. And the difference in mud performance between S/X's & standard TSL's is only one you'd really notice in competition. All of the above suck on the highway, but they're great in their element.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i will agree with you there tex, but that is why we run them on the front. they dont bite as hard. on a good trail ride it is a small sacrifice so that you are a little(depends on driver) less likely to break something up front. for racing the tsl is better especially with a little help from the hot knife.

dan

I do not intend to offend,I offend with my intent
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sean,

As a fellow Arizonan I have a difficult time listening to how you are getting barrel cactus thorns in your tires. Just how is it that you can encounter such a situation and still "tread lightly"? I've lived here well over 20 years and never once have seen a cactus growing on a trail.... or one that couldnt be completely avoided.

Stick to the trails and our sport will continue to have a enjoyable future!

LarryM
85 CJ7, 350TBI ,T19 4spd
'00 TJ Sport
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Blackjack, what you're doing is the same principle as running TSL's up front with Boggers in the back - except taking another step. And if you run 33's, they do make those super wide 15.50's. We don't allow cuts except in the upper classes - Pro Stock with some groups (including mine) - "Modified" & up with others. Do you do much racin'? Care to send me a picture with some specs? I'm trying to fix up my admittedly lame "pictures" page since I was recently informed by a 21-year-old College girl that it sucked. If you'd like to have your truck posted, go to my page & follow the links. I don't have any Jeeps so far & just one Ford.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi guys more questions? What are the advantags of skinnies/wides? Why do I see so many vehicles in the Mags with wide tires? I am currantly running 40x17 gumbo monster mudders and they are wearing out, and i want to sell them while they still have good value, the question is what size should i go to??(i do a variety of offraoding but i would like to concour some mud holes. Are the 34x9.5 close to the 35s? or 33s? or is the actual diameter of the tire is 34s this does not see alot of on road driving just to the pits(so super swampers or whatever are ok) (i think with a smaller tire would help in the HP) i think the whole jeep would like it better but i do not break axles since the one piece amc 20 axles(previous owner installed) my concern is with the 34s is that i do not want to lose the ground clearance of the pumpkin,(although i do not think the clearance is much of an issue as me NEEDING a FRONT LOCKER!! NEXT ON THE LIST!!)
83 cj7 stock 360(out of a 70's cherokee chief), tourqflite 904/d300 and one piece axles amc 20

 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wide tires provide stability & a really great look. Plus, if you go above 38", you can't get skinny tires unless you go to something like 20" medium-truck rims. Wide will give you better floatation, which is okay if you have the HP & reduced weight to take advantage of that. But, skinny tires apply more lbs/sq inch & will generally bite harder. And if there is a bottom to the mud, skinny tires will dig down & hook up where wide ones often will sit on top & push the mud.

34's are almost exactly the same height as 33" TSL's & if both are mounted on the same size rim, the 33's are actually slightly bigger! Neither are as big as a 35" TSL, but not much smaller. 34's generally thump 35's in competition around here & we run pretty deep mud. But, if you have 40's now, I think you might be giving up too much clearance to go down to 34". You might instead consider something like a 38X12.50 TSL or R85 Buckshot Mudder (basically the same size). You can keep your rims if you have 10" rims now, where 34's or Q78's would require at most an 8" rim (ditto for 38.5X11 Boggers). Either the 38X12.50 or R85 will perform better than worn-out Mudders & the slight reduction in height & big reduction in weight should increase your performance all around. If you need a tough sidewall, the TSL S/X is available in a 38x12.50, although you rarely see 'em. BTW, if you decide you don't want to give up your width, 38.5X16 TSL's are about the same size as your current 17X40's & will hook up WAY better.

TEX

/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif Got Mud?
http://G.U.M.B.O. Mud Racing
 
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