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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just reading the anti theft postings, and I have a story...
In May of '96, I was on my way back to the mid west from the Florida Keys. In Miami a front brake caliper locked up, and needed attention in short order. I rented a motel room, and went to the auto parts store. I picked up everything I needed except for one bearing race, and ordered it. It was due first thing the next morning.
I got my tools out, and replaced everything but the race, and got ready for it. While I was cleaning up my tools shortly after dark, a thin black man with a bad complexion and dirty cloths stuck a pistol in my right kidney from behind, and told me he was going to kill me if I didn't give him the keys.
I used a hand full of wrenches to deflect the pistol, and cracked him in the forehead with a dead blow hammer, leaving a depressed skull fracture nearly two inches in diameter, and about an inch and a half deep.

I was detained by the Miami police for a week while they waited to see if the 24 year old crack head-car jacker with over 140 arrests was going to die or not.
He didn't, but he will never color inside the lines again, really enjoys soup through a straw, and can't figure out where his toes go when his shoes are on.

I, on the other hand, just had the last law suit dismissed a month ago, and I have incurred over $270,000.00 in legal fees, been arrested and released twice, had my jeep and trailer with a Harley and an enduro stolen while in jail in Miami, and lost a boat load of business while trying to get over the legal problems.
I recommend avoiding Miami in general, and South Miami Heights (just off the Florida turnpike) in particular.

I don't spend a nickel in Dade County (Miami), and I never will.
I still go to the Keys every year, (Monroe County) and that crap just doesn't happen there.

Next time my anti-theft device will be a 9MM and a shovel.




 
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It is a shame to see that our legal system does not protect the victim but protects the criminal. It makes me think. What will happen to me if I fought and badly injured a criminal who wanted to rob and kill me?

 
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HOW DARE A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN DEFEND THEMSELVES... that's what our legal system is coming to. Protect the guilty, because they'll just get out of jail and commit another crime, thanks to so many wonderful judges/lawsuits.

Punish the innocent, we're the only ones that will actually go anywhere without a fight.

I guess the bright note is that when the world ends on 1/1/00, you won't have to pay those legal fees! /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Jon-YJ94
a work in progress
[email protected]
 
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I have spent many years in South Fl and I agree with you. Never liked going to Miami and avoided it as much as was possible. Moved as far as you can go and still stay in FL. A fraction of the population and the trouble. The Keys are another story. The are beautiful. North Fl. is also a day shorter to any good trail rides than South Fl.

 
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It really is a shame that we can't live in this country without having to worry about who is going to rob or steal from us. I personally, believe in self protection. However, in your case I can't help but wonder if there is not more to the story. I am in law enforcement...and I have learned that to every story there are two sides.....and then what really happened.

Given the same situation, I would have done the same thing. But based on what you told us, I find it hard to believe that you spent a week in jail...unless there is more to it than what your are telling...like maybe, once you had the gun away from him...and it was no longer a threat, you placed the hammer against his head...that changes the picture somewhat....and I bet there were witnesses. Its easy for the anger to take control and we end up doing more than we should.

As for all the legal troubles...blame most of that on the lawyers....An interesting statistic...California has 75,000 sworn peace officers...and 135,000 Bar certified lawyers.

I have been sued twice over totally false charges...and both times the dept settled out of court because it was cheaper than paying the lawyers....basically, the lawyers have a legal version of blackmail..."give me money or I take you to court".....about the only way we are going to solve the problem is to have a law that allows us to go after the lawyer and client who trump up false claims.....

I hope no one has to go through what you did....

John......southern CA
84CJ7,3"lift,32"BFG,4.11's,ARB,Solid Axle's
 
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John, you must know my neighbor Scott... he's a police-o, and has been sued twice.... same deal. Now he gets to sit behind a desk. /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

While there are two sides to every story, and both sides always tell some of the truth, I believe that the there is too much emphasis on criminals rights, and not my rights (or yours, for that matter).

I must work to upgrade the Jeep, eat, etc. They (criminals) just wait for me to complete my upgrades, then steal my possessions.

Criminals don't work... Now, if they just put that much effort into being upstanding citizens... well...

Jon-YJ94
a work in progress
[email protected]
 

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I believe in giving criminals a second chance, or even a third chance depending on what the crime is (for regular homicide not out of self defense, I'd say just fry 'em, if there was no self defense aspect), but 140 second chances is ridiculous. That guy should have been locked away for life... I hate the legal system as it is getting. More and more compassionate for the criminal, and less and less for the victim... "But he was deprived as a child..." So? A lot of rich people were deprived as children too, but instead of getting things the illegal way, they worked their a$$es off and made their money. And with the law getting softer and softer on criminals, less people will obey the law. With the plushness of some prisons (I got to take a tour of a new one in Freeland, MI when they opened it) That one I toured, gave them all the comforts of home, and they even get cable TV?! I know quite a few honest law abiding people who can't even afford that luxury, but we give it away to the criminals??? Well I guess I'll stop now, before the Black helicopters come to take me away... /wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 Suburban 4x4 454, 6" lift, 35x12.5s & '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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Too late, Tim. We're marked for absorbtion into the socialist society that is America, and we will be taken by the black helis in the near future.

If people really want "free" stuff that bad, go check out Russia for a few years. Talk about crime! Its 99% Rusky mob there... Even Canada... I believe that America needs a safety net, and give my time and money freely to causes I warrant are deserving. I do not apprciate government imposed "Self-help" policies...

Speaking of... when a canadian or brit needs quality healthcare, why do they have to come to America? Because Socialized anything doesn't work.

Criminals should be given 3 seeds, a book, and a hose. Tell 'em to make their own food. See what it's like to work... AAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH... I'll bet they'd learn the work ethic (as I post from work...) /wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gifI'm getting on a rant here...

Back to the Landuse board...

Jon-YJ94
a work in progress
[email protected]
 
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/wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gifTeamRush-Got to wonder if you would of been better off if you had killed him???/wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif
/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gifThat way it would have just been self defence maybe??/wwwthreads_images/icons/blush.gif
 
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I'm from Canada and are problems are not nearly as deep when it comes to crimes but it is definately heading that way.
Research has showed that the death penalty for murder is not a deterrent, all I know is that you will not have any repeat offenders and that is good enough for me

Cutch 88YJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is in answer to DDawg16.
I didn't say I was in jail for a week, I said I was detained for a week in Miami. The detectives told me if I left town, there would be warrant issued for my arrest for attempted murder. Then I was arrested TWICE, and transported back to Fla. Both times the charges were dropped. The first time was for battery resulting in serous bodily injury, and the second time was for violating his civil rights.
There were witnesses. Two uniformed private security guards for the motel, my girl friend setting less than 10 feet away, and about a half a dozen crack heads hanging around the telephones in a closed gas station parking lot on the other side of TWO twelve foot razor wire topped chain link fences, that the gunman/car jacker/crack head climbed to rob the tourists.
I hit the guy once, and only once. I gave him CPR with the security guards until the paramedics got there.
The only question was with the gun. It turned out to be a pellet gun that looked like a real gun. I couldn't tell the difference in the dark, but it seems to make a difference to the crack heads in the projects. I would say he is lucky my 9MM was in the lock box in the room already.
As for all the questions the police had, it was my impression that the beat cops were glad to be rid of the looser, and the detectives were through, but saw the light. My problem was with the D.A.'s office, and the local leaders in the projects.
I am in the process of trying to get the arrests expunged from my record, and you wound not believe how hard that is.
I underwrite docu-cam video cameras to the local Sheriff's department, I underwrote three bullet proof vests for my local city police, and I lend and donate scuba equipment to the local police rescue teams, and I work the local state police and sheriffs' camps for at risk youth every year.
I am not giving or donating anything until I get the legal fees paid. My home county is feeling the pinch, and they know why. I tried to donate eather through my companies or personally at least ten thousand a year. They don't like Fla. very much now.
Does this answer your questions?

I will never trust the so called justice system again. Why do you think I should?

 

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Just had a friend (no record no nothin) get hauled across the state for an ID with a witness for a burglery because he had a matching name.
I was'nt with him but I know he was local when this was supposed to happen.
HE SPENT TWO NIGHTS IN JAIL!/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif
Witness said "thats not him" and they haul him back across the state-free to go.
Whats up with that? He does'nt have money to get a lawer but THAT AIN'T RIGHT.
He is also not one to stand up for his rights(it was just a mistake), I was madder/wwwthreads_images/icons/mad.gif than he was. I guess you can't help people that won't help themselves.
I guess thats what most of the people have become/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif

85'CJ7 258 4" runnin33's
 
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The system

A little evening humor...

A group of terrorists burst into the conference room at the
Ramada hotel, where the American Bar Association was
holding its annual convention. More than a hundred lawyers
were taken as hostages.

The terrorist leader announced that
unless their demands were met, they would release one
lawyer every half hour.

Jon-YJ94
a work in progress
[email protected]
 
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ok, this is why I think we need the death penalty. Say its early 1900's ok? If you murder someone, the penalty is death, if you assault someone the penalty is 20 years, if you rob somone its 5 years and so on in decreasing increments. Now, we abolish the death penatly. Suddenly, murdering somone is 20 years, assult is 5, and robbery is punishable by an indian burn and a charliehorse. Make any sense?

MudFlap 87 YJ POS!!
 

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What bothers "us", the otherwise law abiding john/jane Q public, is that it appears that if we defend ourselves.....the burden of "propriety" is placed totally on our shoulders. That is, is doesn't matter that you were beaten, robbed, held at gun point, terroized, tortured, harrassed, shot at, car jacked, ................ i.e. 100% of the crime ...................if you err .000000009% and you maybe, might have, could have, slight possibility used a little too much zeal and used ONE mm too much "corrective action".....you're liable for any negitive outcome and become the criminal......the animal is now a martyr ...
Take Rodney King for example..........no one knows about the two other criminals in the car that just got handcuffed and didn't get struck once. ......But you take a crackhead like Rodney.......who stole a car........ran two red lights and endangered countless law abiding citizens..........stared down and advanced on a CHiP with a gun pointed at him .........was tazered twice .........was an obviously aggresive 260-280 6'4+ madman........and you ask the average 190-220lb cop to use restraint in subduing the monster? ........and all he had to do was lay down and go peacfully. Now officers that did nothing that I wouldn't expect anyone else to do in that situation are serving time for allowing that useless eater animal to live.
If I step "out of bounds".......I give up the right to ask how much of a reaction that I get from it. One can hope that the person that I violate is reasonable in his/her responce.......but that is his/her option .....not mine. Now it's a shame that the crackhead that pointed the pellet gun at your head has brain damage.......but that's just an ocupaional hazzard for him.........HE chose to lead a life of crime......and he is paying the price. Now I don't expect that I'd kill someone for stealing my kids bike.........but if they died springing a booby-trap .....trying to steal the bike......I don't think that I'm the criminal.

I don't want facist law enforcement ..........but let's get real here.
BTW-the death penalty is not a deterant ..........but it is a great economy action for otherwise expensive useless eaters.

GeeAea

 
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I have dealt w/lawyers of all kinds and every one has told me time and again, no witness to testify in court, no problem. I live by those rules when they apply to me. aaron, you did the right thing man and btw did you get your ride back?


Mike

 
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Take the CA Medi-cal fraud. About 10 years ago, there was a "crackdown" on fraudlent claims. They figure it cost CA taxpayers about 500,000,000.00. That's 500 million. Even after the bust, the gov's at medi-cal ignored clearly fraudlent claims. There was one lady that submitted so many fraudlent claims that she was living in a 2 million dollar house, driving a Rolls... She's never worked a day in her life.

Only 10 years later the FBI finds the fraud is back. They're estimating it will cost CA tax payers over 1 BILLION. I would like a % of that back in refund this year... I shouldn't pay for fraud my government ignored. The government employees that ingored/helped the fraud should be sent to jail just like the "criminals"...

Where do we place these types of criminals in the justice system? A minimum security "country club", 3 squares a day, are are released at 1/3 of their sentence for "good behavior".... So, if we give the death penalty to THOSE types of criminals, now that's a deterrent.

Regular crack head/losers have nothing to loose, hence why the death penalty is not a deterrent.

Jon-YJ94
a work in progress
[email protected]
 
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Aaron,
Thanks for the clarification....I appologize if I sounded like I doubted you or was taking any other side but yours. Like someone stated in one of the other posts....next time make sure he is dead.....
What happened to you really surprises me...even here in CA, the same incident would have been a lot easier on you...First...its a felony to use even a 'fake' gun in a robery....if it looks like a gun....it must be a gun....so in your case there would have been no criminal issues.

However, in this great free country...anybody can sue anybody....in most cases the frivolous lawsuits never make it to trial...we only hear about the ridiculous ones....in reality, you might have been better off taking your chances in front of a jury and saved yourself all the initial legal charges...One other contributing factor is what I call the "Deep Pocket" theory.....lawyers go after the pocket with the most money...regardless of fault...

Next time someone wants to sue you...get divorced and give all your property to your wife and kids...give her 100% of your pay....then let them sue you...as soon as they find out you have no money....they will drop the lawsuit.

John......southern CA
84CJ7,3"lift,32"BFG,4.11's,ARB,Solid Axle's
 

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Yes YJ ......that's about the only time that I think the death penalty would be a deterent. For the majority of the murders .....it's not.

You or I find our next door neighbor molesting our kid.......we can't kill him on the spot...so we plan it ....kill him get caught and surrender - life w/o parole only because of the "sympathy" factor .....which is as good as death to otherwise "fully functional" citizens ....punishment or the fear of it never came into the picture in those "murders of passion". You can throw the disgrunted postal worker types in here as well.......they don't care about what happens to them when they do this type of thing.......they just need to quench their flames of rage. They usually afford society the economy of suicide......which somehow frustrates the public......we seem to want our "pound of flesh" and somehow feel ripped off if the kook offs himself before we get to flog him in court. Of course, one would prefer that this person would just off themselves without taking so many down with them......but that would be too easy on the people that pushed an otherwise functional human being over the edge. Still it saves a ton of public cash.

Crack dealer.......killing is like taking out the trash......part of everyday life......he has a life expectancy of only a couple of years anyway......would a death penalty stop him from killing?

Those that kill for profit .....the inheritance .....the embesslment of large sums of cash and get discovered......those that actually go into murder with the expectation of getting away with it. These are the ones that I feel (if you were going to choose) deserve to be put to death the most.....these are gamblers.....they actually thought about it and did it anyway......and sometimes they lose.

All of these types of people kill without the death penalty being a factor in preventing the murder.

But again.........it is a great economy move.......why pay $30,000 + a year for a useless eater?

GeeAea

 
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I work for the legal system in New Mexico, and I am amazed /wwwthreads_images/icons/shocked.gif everyday with the apparent lack of consistency and fairness.
Case in point is a recent event in Santa Fe. A man was arrested on a warrant from New Mexico in Michigan. They extradited,
brought him back to Santa Fe, kept him in jail for a while only to discover he was the wrong guy, same name and DOB. So, the
authorities in Santa Fe cut him loose, bye bye, BUT NO RIDE BACK TO MICHIGAN AND THE GUY HAD NO MONEY. The Santa
Fe County DA said it was not their obligation to give him a ride back home. So the guy ended up staying with his lawyer a couple
of days, one of the airlines finally gave him a 1st class ticket to get home and some of the local citizens gave him some money.
Our legal system at its finest, doing what they darn well please, with impunity.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)
 
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