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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. On the old BBS I had posted a msg indicating that I had a water (anti-freeze) leak which I could not determine where it was coming from. Based on some of the responses I got I decided to replace the water pump. I was going to order one from 4WD ($36.99) but driving home recently on the Van Wyck Expwy (for those of you in the NY area) I noticed that the Pep Boys store was now an Auto Zone store (first Auto Zone store I've seen in NY). I went to Auto Zone and asked for the pump. I payed $22 and got $5 core charge. The pump (which I don't remember what brand) came with a gasket. I also purchased a hi-temp gasket sealer (red stuff, I hope I bought the right stuff). I decided to remove the front grill since I was having some electrical problems. The installation went pretty smooth, I cleaned up the whole front of the engine, etc. It took me about 4-5 hours to complete the job since I was taking my time and cleaning and inspecting the setup of my 258. I would guess that a more experienced person would complete the job in 1-2 hours. I assembled all pieces and heated up the engine....Not one drop of Water !!!!! I was happy as "pigs in mud"....

Now, here is my question, how much anti-freeze or water (can I use a combo of both) should I use in a 3 core rad? What type of gasket sealent should I use on the water pump? How abou the oil pan gasket on an auto transmission, can I use the same high temp sealent?

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to keep some guys posted on my progress and hopefully help some other non-experienced mechanic.

Thanks for all your help and wish me luck since I'm taking my CJ for the emissions inspection tomorrow morning.

John C.

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I'd say just a high temperature RTV for the water pump. That's what I used the last time I did my truck. But as for the auto tranny drain pan, I would recommend just using the gasket and nothing else, at least if it's a synthetic gasket (I'm not sure what, if anything, to use on a cork gasket). On a friend's K5 Blazer, the person he bought it from used RTV to seal the pan to the tranny, and promptly after he bought the truck, the RTV broke down and he had a h*** of a time cleaning it up. I'd say just stick to the gasket itself. Good luck with the emissions test, by the way... Just my $0.02

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 GMC Suburban 4x4 and '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

Thanks for your quick response.

Actually, I have a problem with the auto tranny on my 84 Volvo wagon. I hope you don't mind me asking you a question about a vehicle that is not a 4x4. I recently replaced the gasket and filter on the auto tranny (I do this once a year). This time after installing the new gasket (with no sealent) it started to leak, a lot, about a 8 x 8 inch stain on the floor. I bought another gasket and applied some of that black sealent that I bought from 4WD which I used when I replaced the diff gasket on my AMC 20. Still leaking, this time even worse. So I removed the black stuff and put in another gasket and it still leaks. I've tighten the bolts as much as I could without breaking them but can't figure out what the problem is. Someone had mentioned that the oil pan might be bent or old. What do you think?

Again, sorry for the non-4x4 question but I am desperate since I depend on the wagon to go to work on the weekends.

Thanks.

John C.

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Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

Have you tried checking for warpage on the pan with a straight edge? Are you sure that it's leaking from the pan itself, instead of blowing out a vent hole? Another possibility, theoretically, would be the torque converter might be leaking, or some other type of seal in the transmission. If the pan and the machined surface on the transmission where the pan gets attatched, when checked with a straight edge prove to not be warped or otherwise distressed, it's probably one of the other items I mentioned. That's about all I can think of at this time... Let me know when you get it fixed, if you don't mind...

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 GMC Suburban 4x4 and '85 GMC S15 4x4
 

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Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

As to the antifreeze/water question, I generally use a 50% mix of antifreeze and water. Mix 'em together in a bucket is preferable so you get the mixture the closest to 50% as possible, because with too much coolant it takes too long to warm up, and too much water you risk cracking a head or something similar in the winter. I think they say the maximum mixture of antifreeze they say you should use is 70% and then 30% water. I'm not sure what the minimum is. Just make sure you get that thing nice and full, and that there aren't any air bubbles left in the hoses or radiator.

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 GMC Suburban 4x4 and '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

Thanks again. The section between the tranny and the engine (bellhousing?) has two vents, and I though that the leak was coming from one of the vents. Is this possible? When I look into one of the vents I only see dry parts (clutch, pressure plate, etc). Could I have broken something else by adding too much tranny fluid?

Thanks, I'll keep you posted.

John C.

John C.

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Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

While I'm no Volvo expert, I believe that in addition to the vents on the bellhousing you indicated there are, there is at least one on top of the transmission body itself. Another thing to take a look at, particularly if it may be overfilled, is the dispstick tube thing. (Generally), There will be an O-ring where the tube attatches to the transmission. The O-ring may have just rotted away and as you attempt to add fluid some of it spills out. It doesn't take a ton of auto tranny fluid to make an 8"x8" spot on the floor, especially if it's on a surface it can't soak into. The downside to 70%antifreeze/30%water mix is that there will be a considerable difference in the amount of time it takes to warm up. The highest I'd recommend going would be about 55%-maybe60% antifreeze or so. The winters in NY (to the best of my knowledge) aren't too different from MI where I am. However, I should clear this up: I said in my original reply here, I think: "lower mixtures would be ok if it doesn't get near the freezing point of water" What I meant to say there, was that is what it'd be like with pure water in the system. On the back of the antifreeze containers you get, they most likely have a chart that applies to their specific antifreeze, but as a rule, they're basically the same. Mixtures below about 40%antifreeze/60%water will still be able to go below 32 degrees Farenheit, however, I'm not exactly sure how far. Average temperature in MI in winter, I'd guess would be around 15 or 20 degrees, and I have no problem with the 50%antifreeze/50%water mix, but I'm not sure what the temperatures are there. Also, I don't advise running pure water in any vehicle, at least without some form of rust/corrosion inhibitor. Most antifreeze contains rust/corrosion inhibitors, and in my opinion they are absolutely essential to having the engine (coolant passages)/radiator/water pump, and any other component that comes in contact with coolant last as long as possible. This stuff can plug up because of corrosion, but as long as I have used antifreeze mixed with water, as opposed to pure water, I have never had a corrosion/rust problem. Sorry for the very long-winded post, but, uh... um... well... Ok, so I'm not sorry about it... /wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif Good luck!!!

Tim
"The_Sandman_454"

/wwwthreads_images/icons/cool.gif '79 GMC Suburban 4x4 and '85 GMC S15 4x4
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
About the antifreeze/water mix. In chemistry terms antifreeze/water is called an azeotrope, which means the mixture has different properties than either of the originals. The max you should use is 70:30 because the freezing point of the mixture actually starts to go back up if you exceed this. I usually mix 2/3 to 1/3 in an original antifreeze bottle (relabel it as 2/3:1/3) and store it for use. I'm talking ethylene glycol 2/3, and water 1/3; try to use distilled water. I live in Wyoming where it gets to -40 and I haven't had a problem yet with 2/3:1/3 mix. By the way, the boiling point of the mix really doesn't change that much due to different mixtures. You have to rely on your radiator cap to pressurize the coolant system to keep the mixture from boiling.

 

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Your right about the freezing point going up with too high a mixture. Ethylene Glychol, by itself freezes .. some where above zero and below 32 ....... so it is shipped with 3-7% water. It would be a little hard to sell if you delivered a truck load of frozen antifreeze to Billings Montana. Water is a better conductor of heat ..... but ..... well you know.

GeeAea

 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Sandman

Tightening the tranny pan or engine oil pan requires only about 2-3 ft. lbs of torque, you may need to check warpage on pan as a previous poster indicated and re-install the pan and only torque the pan bolts to a couple of ft lbs.

CB
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Anti-Freeze Leak - Thanks all

Thanks everyone for the responses. I probably over torqued the bolts and bent the pan. I'm gonna try and get a new one and make sure I tightn to specs.
Thanks again all and Happy Jeeping!

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The standard sealer for water pump gaskets I've always used is gasket shellac (Indian Head or something like that is the only brand I've ever seen). It's kinda messy, but I've never seen it leak.

-Dana

Newton's Seventeenth Law of American Life:
For every action, there is an unequal and moronic overreaction.

 
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