I'd check the oil pressure gauge first thing.

What is your start up pressure?
Is the bypass spring going south when it warms up?

Cam bearings or someone left an oil gallery plug loose, or missing....

Let us know what you find...

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

The start up pressure is 50 PSI. All the problems occur when the engine oil is high temp is high. Also the oil pressure increases well with the engine rpm, even when warm.

I am pretty sure that the galley plugs were good and tight. The cam bearings I cannot vouch for, because I did not do those myself. I will be buying an electric gauge tonight and installing it. I will let you know what this yields. I talked to a couple of guys I know that build SB chevy's and one said that the nylon tubes for the mechanical gauges are trash. They get soft when the oil gets hot, and they get squishy, and you can lose up to 2 pounds of PSI pressure reading per foot. I have about 6 feet of this tubing between the sender and the gauge. I do get a ticking at idle however, so I am not sure that the gauge is lying. The whole thing is very, very confusing. The fact that noone else who built an AMC V8 had the same problems also worries me. If all else fails, I will run 20w50, and hope for the best.

Thanks, any other options out there

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

When you rebuilt your oil pump, did you check to make sure that it's within tolerances? When I was rebuilding my 360, I took the oil pump cover in to a machinist who resurfaced the cover (to get the scarring out). I'd start with the pump... let us know what you find out.

If I was a horse, they would have shot me years ago... /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

 

Here is the history of the saga I have been through so far. The engine was torn down, and completely rebulit. Bored 30 over, hot tanked, new bearings, polished crank, new cam and gears (installed by machine shop)

When initally starting the engine, I began to break in the cam. After about 15 minutes at 2000 rpm, the distributer gear went out (because the cam drive and the distributer gear were not a match set) This munched the original 360 timing chain cover, as well as the new pump gears I had bought.

Then I installed a used 304 timing chain cover I had in the garage with new pump gears springs, etc. The tolerances for this pump were a little on the lose side, but in tollerance. There was also scoring on the pump walls and on the housing cover. This pump yielded only 4 psi at hot idle. Suspecting a bad timing chain cover, I replaced the timing cover and oil pump cover with brand new ones from 4wd hardware.

Upon installing this (the third one) timing chain cover (brand new) and oil pump housing the hot idle oil pressure has not chainged. It was still anout 5 at 1000 rpm. The clearances for this pump were .0015 cover to gear clearance and the side gear clearance was .002, both well within spec. The pressure everywhere, but at hot idle is great. Therefore, I believe that the pump is not the issue. I am slowly, and frustrationgly eliminating parts from the oiling system until I find the problem. All I hope for is that it is not a cam bearing.

This is the whole story, and you can see why I am so frustrated. This is costing me alot of money, and TIME. I have already missed 2 big wheelin trips in this downtime, and it looks like I am in jeopardy for the next trip on the 4th of July.

break out the brain power. If anyone can help me, I would be indebted to you for life... or at least owe you a 12 pack of your favorite beverage.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

Hey,

If you find out what the problem is let me know. I am having the same problem. I've put about 1000 miles on my motor sense the rebuild it had great oil pressure until I took it out this spring. I changed the oil and put in 10W30 and now I have the exact symptoms that you have. I also chewed up the distributor gear shortly after the rebuild. My biggest problem is that I have been too busy to work on the Jeep and find out what the problem is. So if you find the answer update the post so I know where would be a good place to begin in finding my problem.

Thanks

'77 CJ7 AMC360/T400/Q-trac/D30/D44

 

What oil weight were you running prior to switching to 10w30. Also, what was the oil pressure you were seeing with the previous oil weight.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

There was a problem with aftermarket timing covers. Check that also. My money is still with a mech gauge
with plastic lines, BTW, Hughes aircraft had them on their turbine aircraft and I don't think they'd use them
if they were that bad.

 

I think the timing chain cover is fine, because I say the same symptoms from a stock AMC cover. I also do not question the reliability of mechainical gauges, just MY mechanical gauge. It is old, and might be off. In fact I bought another mechaincail gauge (autometer) and copper tubing. This will atleast remove the nylon tube from the possable issues. Maybe the gauges in the aircraft were calibrated for the specific PSI loss over the length of the tubing. I dought if the gauge I have is that sofisticated. The new one will be a vast improvement in accuracy at least, even if it does not fix the issue. Thanks for the suggection though. Keep em comin. This is like one big cyber-brainstorming session.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif I'm still convinced that the problem is in the oil pump. The end clearance between the gears and the plate should be .0005 according to my notes here. Don't forget, the aluminum expands more than the steel gears do, so the setting should be as close to zero as you can be and still turn the pump with a tool from the top. If you lost the distributor/oil pump drive gear, it may be from the cam walking forward. If the cam grind isn't just right with a slope toward the front of the engine, the lifters will not keep the cam "tucked in the hole". Even a slight scarring of the end plate on the oil pump will account for more than .0005 clearance, so do check that out carefully using plasitgage on bolt-up. Going to the heavier oil would not be a good idea in my view. The lighter oil lubricates better by getting through the clearances, and with the very heavy oil, you can easily fail the oil pump drive if Cousin Leroy/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif revs the crap out of your Jeep when it's cold./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gifAlso, don't forget that even if side and end clearances are good, the GEARS do the pumping. Check each gear set and see how much lash there is./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Trac modified by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif transfer case team.

 

It may be possable that the problem is in the oil pump after reading what you just typed.. Let me get this right. What you are saying is that the clearance between the cover, and the top of the gears, with the gasket in place and bolts torqued to 4.5 ft lbs (54 inch pounds, I used my in lb torque wrench to be accurate)needs to be as close to very, or less than .0005. I tried to check this with plastigauge, and the clearance was too large, so i thought i did it wrong. So then I checked the clearance with a straight edge, as my manual said. I laid the straight edge over the gears, and the gears stuck up above the timing chain cover .0015. So I need to find a gasket that is less than .002 but thicker than .0015, if I am reading what you are saying correctly. CJDave, you might be on your way to a 12 pack of your favorite beverage.... I know I will feel dumb if it turns out the way I checked the clearances was incorrect. I am learning here, so I will get over it. As long as I get it fixed.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Yep, that's what I'm driving at./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif TeamRush had a post recently where he listed some common items that had different thicknesses, like manila folders, etc.. You'll just have to take a micrometer and go hunting/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif Here is a quote from FSRO in Eugene Oregon, an outfit that specialized in AMC/Buick oil pump rebuilds:******* "For these types of pumps to work well, the clearances must be TIGHT. Just adding new gears and a gasket of unknown thickness will not cure any oil pressure problem. The side clearances must be as tight as possible, and the gear to pump cover clearance must be as close to .002" - .000 as possible." *****/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gifUnfortunately, these guys are no longer doing this rework to AMC/Buick pumps. So,....you are looking for the big ZERO on clearances/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Trac modified by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif transfer case team.

 

Yeah, I got that post. I checked some of the manilla folders here around the office, and they all seem to be about .010 or a little thinker. Doing some math (look out!) I think I will need a gasket thickness of .0035. A piece of copier paper here is .003. I am sure I can find paper thick enough, but might not be able to find a manilla folder thin enough.

Teamrush said in that post that the manilla folder was "sealed", so I am wondering if I can use normal paper for the gasket. So, if you are listening...

Teamrush, can I use regular copier paper to make these gaskets too???? Come on back good buddy.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

That is true.
The older AMC/ Buick type pumps used to come with oversized gears, and you had to machine or hone out the housing to fit them.
A lot of people just wedged them or drove them up in there, and let them clearance themselves....
A REALLY BAD IDEA!
If it didn't twist off the distributor drive, break the distributor gear or send a ton of crap into the bearings, it would hold good oil pressure.

Every oil pump we do here takes about five hours to check, machine, and recheck...
And that is a minimum, if the pump is close when we take it out of the box...
AMC pumps are particularly picky, because of the poor cast aluminum housing.

The housing grows at roughly three times the rate of steel, and roughly three times as much as steel. That is going to open up the housing as soon as the oil starts to gain heat, and pass it to the housing.

The starting tolerances are extremely critical.
You want ZERO clearance between the gears and the housing if possible.
You want around 0.0002" to 0.0005" total end play with the gasket installed.
Use plasti-gauge, and bolt that sucker up.
If I were you, I'd do the top first, clean it off, and do the bottom before final assembly...
DON'T FORGET ASSEMBLY LUBE!! WITH CLEARANCES THIS TIGHT, AND POSSIBLE INTERFERENCE FROM MALFORMED HOUSINGS, A GOOD LUBE IS A MUST!

From the sound of it, you are going to have to at the very least use a thinner gasket, and at the most, remove material form the housing side of the oil pump to close up the clearance.
Remember, no gouges are allowed, the end plates must be nearly perfectly smooth.
The sides need to be as smooth as possible, while important, it's not as critical as it is on the end plates.

If you use manilla folders, or some other kind of sealed paper for gasket material, make sure you seal the edges with spray on clear coat.
There is precision thickness gasket material out there, but you will have to special order it.



"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

OK, thinks are looking more and more clear by the minute. Thanks everyone for the help. If this works I will be one happy fella, as will be my Jeepchick. She can only take so many days of 5 hr garage nights. Then she starts getting cranky... Or maybe she just starts to think I will never figure this stuff out... I cannot tell. I am now armed with several pieces of glossy paper, some manilla folders, and such. I will try and figure out what gasket size I need, and then adjust my gasket size from there, until it works. Not exactly as easy as it says in the manual.....

Thank you all again, and I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

I was running 10W40 but grabed the 10W30 only because I had that laying around for changing my car oil. At an idle I think it normally ran about 20 psi. and reved up went somehere around 45 - 50 psi. Now when the engine is warm at an idle it is about 5 psi and climbs to 12 - 17 psi when reved up. Currently when it is cold the pressure looks great, but once it warms up I don't dare run it. The first rebuild cost me enough money without having to do something stupid to the motor.



'77 CJ7 AMC360/T400/Q-trac/D30/D44

 

Here is the update.

I measured the gasket for the oil pump that I was using. It is .0095 thick. When I measured how far the gears stick up above the timing chain cover, the amount was .0015. This makes my effective distance between oil pump cover and gears .008. This will not cut the mustard.

Another thing I checked while I was working in the garage last night was the oil pressure relief spring. In my oil pump adventrures I have bought 2 melling rebuild kits (gears, gasket, and spring/checkvalve). I took out the two different relief springs and measured the free length of them. One measures .071 longer than the other. I was using the shorter one. I switched to the longer one, and installed the new Autometer gauge. I now have about 10 PSI at hot Idle. Not exactly close tolerance manufacturing. I am glad I checked that out.

In my search for different paper thicknesses to make a thinner gasket out of, I have a large selection now. I have some mylar that we make print on at work. it is .0045 thick (.004 thinner than the supplied gasket). I have a "Machine Design" magazine cover... it is .003 thick. I have some magazine pages. They are .0015 thick. Regular copier paper, it is .002 thick. I also have some glossy color copier paper. It is .004 thick. The copier paper is nice, because you can make a copy of the gasket, and then your pattern is already laid out to be cut. I will probably start with the mylar and work my way down, checking everything with plastigauge. I will do this, until I am as close to zero as possable. I will let you know how it turns out on monday, when I get back from a camping/canoeing trip I am leaving for tomorrow morning. I wish I had the internet at home, then I could drop ya'll an update tonight.

Wish me luck.

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif Nice going, Jesse.....you are creeping up on it!/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
Quadra-Trac modified by the crack moonguy/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif transfer case team.

 

Here is the update. I took the oil pump apart, and reset the clearances. I started with a .0045 gasket (original was .0100) Using the plastigauge it gave me a clearance of .0015-.002. So I dropped down in size of gasket thickness to one that was .003 thick. This gives me a gear to cover clearance of 0-.0005, which is right where I need to be. Here is the effect. When the engine reaches 185 (thermostat is a 185 degree thermostat) the idle oil pressure is 10-12. This is good, and I can be happy with this. However, if I let the engine run longer, and runt the engine in park at 3000 rpm for half a minute or so, the oil pressure at idle returns to only around 8psi (when engine temp about 195-200). This is too low for my liking.

Here is my plan. I am going to use 20w50 Valvoline racing oil. This will bump up the pressure, especially when warm, a little over the 10w40, and this oil supposedly has very good high heat temperature characteristics, while still not being a synthetic. Someone has recommended this to me off the local AMC mailing list, which has also been trying to diagnose my oil pressure problem. I also plan on switching to a 160 thermostat. This should help keep the engine temp, and therefore the engine oil temp down. The cooler the oil the better the pressure I run at idle. I am also concerned that there might be so much thick engine lube in the pan that it might be clogging up the screen on the pickup. After the first timing cover got munched, I dropped the oil pan to inspect the rotating assembly. When I dropped the pan there was a nice thick film over the oil pickup from the first start-up and from filling the oil pump with assembly lube. I cleaned it off well. Since then I have set the oil pump up 3 times without dropping the pan. I have changed the oil every time, but I never dropped the pan. I am going to drop the pan and clean the pickup screen nicely.

Hopefully these steps will help me to be able to run the engine. Just thought I would update you guys. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

Jesse


What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

Sounds to me like you need to check the gear teeth to case clearance.
If that checks out...

Have your new timing cover side of the oil pump housing machined about 0.005...
You can always shim out with a thick gasket, and this will verify the bolt surface as straight and true with the gears if a competent machine shop does it.

It sounds like a combination of short gears and fast growing oil pump housing...
---------------------------------

REMEMBER... If there is an air leak on the suction side that gets worse with heat... It will cause the same symptoms...
Just another idea from the peanut gallery....

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

Rather than tear the whole timing chain cover off again to have it machined, I will explore the leak on the suction side. You said that if there is an air leak on the suction side that gets worse with heat, that this will cause the same symptoms. Where do I need to check on the engine to inspect for air leaks. The first thing that comes to mind is the brass oil pressure elbow that sits right behind the alternator. Maybe there is a crack on this that expands with heat.

Seeing how there has been 3 different covers on there, and I am still having the same problem, I am leaning toward the problem not being with the cover.

If you could help me by letting me know what components are on the "suction side" of the oil pump, I would appreciate it very much. I can recheck all those this weekend.

Thanks

Jesse

What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

The 360 AMC engine uses a screw in sump tube to draw oil out of the oil pan.

If there is a crack, or a leak above the oil level (the liquid line in the oil pan) that is allowing air to be drawn into system, that will cause low oil pressure.

That air leak will become worse as the metal expands with heat...
---------------------------------

Did you seal the threads on the pick up tube when you assembled the engine?
Did you inspect the tube for cracks or pits or holes?
Did you install a high volume oil pan and not extend the sump tube?
Could the gallery that delivers the oil to the pump be cracked?
Could one of the pressure side galleries be cracked or have a plug missing or loose?
---------------------------------

If it's one of the more drastic things, you will have to find a custom shop that can do a constant pressure test to locate whats wrong.

I still think you have a clearance that's opening up somewhere when the engine gets hot, and a flow test in a controlled environment may be the only way to locate it.

I am beginning to think if it's not oil pump clearances, it's a clearance problem...
Crack or something loose...
Cracks in the right spots will open up when the engine heats up.
So will some clearances if they are not done correctly.

I hope it's not that, because those can be really expensive...

Let me know what you find, I'm really interested in this problem...
Aaron.

"I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha"

 

Here are some answers to your questions… Hopefully this can help to pin point the problem.

Did you seal the threads on the pick up tube when you assembled the engine?
No I did not seal the pickup tube. I screwed it in until the threads started to bottom out, and then oriented it in a way that would allow the oil pan to fit over. I will unscrew it and screw it back in with some HYLAMAR sealant. It is the kind that is a tooth paste consistency, and does not harden. That way if it falls into the pan, there is no silicone floating around the engine.

Did you inspect the tube for cracks or pits or holes?
The pick-up tube was bought brand new.


Did you install a high volume oil pan and not extend the sump tube?
It is a stock 360 pan. I just fill it up with 5 quarts.


Could the gallery that delivers the oil to the pump be cracked?
The block was fully hot tanked and Magnafluxed for cracks before I put any money into the machining.


Could one of the pressure side galleries be cracked or have a plug missing or loose?
I am fairly certain that the plugs are all tight, however they were not sealed with any sealant.
---------------------------------

I don't think the problem is in the oil pump any more either. I wish that was the problem…. Finding out what is causing it is the hard part fixing it is easy. I will keep you all posted on what I find out.

Jesse


What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif There may be two problems with that. One is that the long suction system on the inlet side of the oil pump may have a problem keeping the pump in oil on cold startups, and the heavier oil may not drain back fast enough at first to refil the pan quick enough. The other problem is that at that low temp, the smog system may not work, as the water temp activated valves will still be closed./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave
Moonguys/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif + Insomnia/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif = Carpal Tunnel /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

 

UPDATE

I have good and bad news. Over the 4 day weekend I had I decided to get down to the bottom of the low 360 oil pressure.

The good news is I found the problem. The bad news is I do not know what caused it to happen, and it aint gonna be cheap to fix.

The problem turns out to be the main bearings. I pulled the oil pan and popped of the main caps one at a time. What I saw made me very upset. The lower halves of the bearings (without oil grooves, except the third main) were scored very deeply into the copper. The scoring seemed to be where the oil passage holes in the crank were. The top halves of the bearings have oil passages in them. They showed no real wear, and no groves to speak of. So I believe somehow the oil got contaminated with some sort of abrasive, like sand, dirt, or metal… something.

To make things worse, the crank is munched on t he journals too. The crank main journals have bad grooving in them too. The groves seem to be raised material though, as oppose to a loss of material, as seen in the bearings.

I have a few questions I am going to try to get answered through you guys and a machine shop.

I had the crank polished, and the clearances were in spec when the bearings were installed. I did not really inspect the crank at all though. I cleaned out the oil passages with a small wire brush, but that is really it. I am not 100% sure the shop polished it, or just charged me for the polishing job. The 360, pre-rebuild had 60 K miles on it, and the bearing wear in those bearings was nothing like this.

I found out this weekend, the first step in an engine rebuild it to thoroughly clean the block with soap and water. I was not aware of this, so it was not done. The cylinder walls were clean, but not the whole block. It was not even rinsed. I figured the machine shop hot-tanked the block so I really did not need to clean it. I did not consider that the machine shop would not clean the block thoroughly after the bored the engine. There could have been a lot of chips left in the block, and they could have been pumped throughout the system.

To make a long story short, this weekend, I yanked the motor, and disassembled it. The only parts needing replaced are the main and rod bearings. The crank will need turned. The block will need to be honed, and cleaned, and possibly hot tanked again. There was small grit even up on the valley pan gasket, and if the oil was pumping the contaminants all through the engine, I can bet that there is still some in the block. I will talk to the machine shop today to find out the pocket book damage. I will be going to a different shop this time. I am upset that they did not mention that I should clean the block, even though they knew I was a first timer at the engine rebuild stuff. I do not blame them for my ignorance, but if I am writing out a $1300 check I expect more, maybe a little bit of advice, so now they lose my future business. I have found a very reputable shop right around the corner from my new house, so I am going there today after work.

The good news is that the cam, lifters, heads, cam bearings, pistons, etc. were not hurt. At least I will not have to front that parts bill again. Thanks again for all the help in trying to find the problem… I am relieved to know what was causing all this, just not pleased with what I found. It is only money and time…

Jesse


What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

 

UPDATE

I have good and bad news. Over the 4 day weekend I had I decided to get down to the bottom of the low 360 oil pressure.

The good news is I found the problem. The bad news is I do not know what caused it to happen, and it aint gonna be cheap to fix.

The problem turns out to be the main bearings. I pulled the oil pan and popped of the main caps one at a time. What I saw made me very upset. The lower halves of the bearings (without oil grooves, except the third main) were scored very deeply into the copper. The scoring seemed to be where the oil passage holes in the crank were. The top halves of the bearings have oil passages in them. They showed no real wear, and no groves to speak of. So I believe somehow the oil got contaminated with some sort of abrasive, like sand, dirt, or metal… something.

To make things worse, the crank is munched on t he journals too. The crank main journals have bad grooving in them too. The groves seem to be raised material though, as oppose to a loss of material, as seen in the bearings.

I have a few questions I am going to try to get answered through you guys and a machine shop.

I had the crank polished, and the clearances were in spec when the bearings were installed. I did not really inspect the crank at all though. I cleaned out the oil passages with a small wire brush, but that is really it. I am not 100% sure the shop polished it, or just charged me for the polishing job. The 360, pre-rebuild had 60 K miles on it, and the bearing wear in those bearings was nothing like this.

I found out this weekend, the first step in an engine rebuild it to thoroughly clean the block with soap and water. I was not aware of this, so it was not done. The cylinder walls were clean, but not the whole block. It was not even rinsed. I figured the machine shop hot-tanked the block so I really did not need to clean it. I did not consider that the machine shop would not clean the block thoroughly after the bored the engine. There could have been a lot of chips left in the block, and they could have been pumped throughout the system.

To make a long story short, this weekend, I yanked the motor, and disassembled it. The only parts needing replaced are the main and rod bearings. The crank will need turned. The block will need to be honed, and cleaned, and possibly hot tanked again. There was small grit even up on the valley pan gasket, and if the oil was pumping the contaminants all through the engine, I can bet that there is still some in the block. I will talk to the machine shop today to find out the pocket book damage. I will be going to a different shop this time. I am upset that they did not mention that I should clean the block, even though they knew I was a first timer at the engine rebuild stuff. I do not blame them for my ignorance, but if I am writing out a $1300 check I expect more, maybe a little bit of advice, so now they lose my future business. I have found a very reputable shop right around the corner from my new house, so I am going there today after work.

The good news is that the cam, lifters, heads, cam bearings, pistons, etc. were not hurt. At least I will not have to front that parts bill again. Thanks again for all the help in trying to find the problem… I am relieved to know what was causing all this, just not pleased with what I found. It is only money and time…

Jesse


What does not kill my wallet, will still make me poorer.
AOL Instant Messager: jessemyers

Jesse, was reading on your posts. You have hit on something that I had happen when I was in the Jeep Dealership years ago. It cost me over $10,000.00 to find this out. We had an engine that we rebuilt and I wanted to make sure you could eat off the engine. In other words very clean. I inspected this motor personally to make sure it was cleaned. We used cleaning solvent which was put in new. What happened is that we had our mechanic clean the cylinder walls with a ball hone and my mechanic would use the solvent to keep the honing moist. My solvent tank had a filtering system on it also so no debris would come though the outlet end (cleaning end) of the tank. I made sure that when the block was cleaned that it was all blown out. Mistake: Always wash a block with soap and hot water after using solvent to hone and clean the block. To make a long story short, we found that the residue from the hone would pass through the filtering system and the honing material from the ball hone would stay suspended with the solvent. It looked like a new engine but when it was air dried, the solvent disappeared but would leave a light residue attached to the walls of the block only to be removed from the wall after engine oil touched it, then it stayed suspended with the engine oil which passed through the engine oil filter and took out the rod, main, and cam bearing in less then 1 hour of running. It took 2 motors and lab work to find out that the honing debri in the solvent was passing through the filter and suspending to the wall of the engine to be un suspended when engine oil touched it, then passing through the engine filter. ALWAYS WASH ANY REBUILD WITH SOAP AND HOT WATER WITH PRESSURE AND BLOW DRY WITH AIR. Hope this helps
Leland

 

/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif Let X equal the number of times the engine block has not been thoroughly cleaned of filings/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif. Let Y equal the number of engines ruined by re-using the same oil pump that was there when it blew and still has "stuff" inside. Let X + Y equal the total number of engine overhauls that had to be re-done/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif That's "Engine Algebra", and it never gets any kinder or cheaper. I have to admire your attitude, however, you're takin' it like a man with no whining/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

CJDave
Moonguys/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif/wwwthreads_images/icons/laugh.gif + Insomnia/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif = Carpal Tunnel /wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif