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AMC 20: Full Floater or Solid Axels?

8061 Views 11 Replies 4 Participants Last post by **DONOTDELETE**, Nov 2, 1999

Discussion Starter · Nov 2, 1999

Ok guys, here is one that I know will invoke some emotional responses but I am sure we are all mature enough to handle it. I know that there are many who would suggest going to a Dana 44 or 60. However, the AMC 20 is actually a good diff if the flanged axles are replaced.

This xmas I will be pulling the rear end and adding 4.11 (or 4.27) gears, a Detroit locker and either Solid axles (Superior?) or the Warn full floater. I will also be doing some other mods like welding the tubes and making my own shock mounts since I striped mine off on my last outing. I would like to hear from those who have direct experience with either or both systems. My 84 CJ7 is a daily driver and since I am divorced, money is a moderate issue.

I look forward to the responses.......John

84CJ7

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CJ7Taz

· #2 · Nov 2, 1999

I've got full floaters but mine a Summers Bros. If you break something in the rear end, you can drop the
driveshaft pull the axles and drive it away. Adding a twin-stick and rear lock-outs would make it even
easier. Break an axle and you don't drop to the ground.

These are the two andvantages I see over solid axles. Disadvantage is price.

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CJDave

· #3 · Nov 2, 1999

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif You have to believe me when I say I am a real advocate of full floaters....I quit buying GM 3/4 ton pickups when they quit putting the full floaters in....making it a FAKE GM 3/4 ton.....HOWEVER...after looking at our Model 20, I think it would take a SUPER axle truss SYSTEM to recoup the strength needed to hold the floaters that far out, AND I don't think the attachment is strong enough where the floater assembly hooks on to the tubes. I like the big gears of the Model 20, but fear the small tubes. I am still scheming on a good truss system, and the operative word is SYSTEM, since it will take several different cleverly designed pieces to do the job. I do realize the advantages of having a floater...especially for damage mitigation....I once brought a ten-wheeler home with a broken housing on the trailing axle by taking out the axle shaft on that side and removing the driveline to the dual-drive rear axle. It was messy and kind of smokey from tire scuffing, but it made it./wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif

CJDave

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 2, 1999

I agree that the Model 20 is HIGHLY UNDER RATED by many Jeepers. With 1-piece axles and a little welding (rosette welds at the holes in the back of the casting to hold the axle tubes) the Model 20 is stronger than a Dana 44. The problem I have with the full-float conversion is the hubs. You still have a 2-piece axle, you have simply changed the means of connection. Ever blown a hub, I have and I certainly don't care to have two more to worry about. Granted you have taken the weight off of the axle assembly, and have stronger axles to boot, but in my opinion a one piece axle is better. Now how about someone making a 1-piece axle, full-float conversion for a Model 20. I'd buy that in a heartbeat, at least I would if I still had a Model 20.

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jps4ever

· #5 · Nov 2, 1999

The Model 20 is a good rearend with the 1pc axles installed. I had many hard miles on mine. The tubes need to be welded to the housing itself not just in the holes. The R&P in the 20 is bigger than the 44 and is stronger. The tubes and housing on the 44 are stronger than the 20. Not sure I would put a FF on a model 20 either. The model 20 was not made to take that kind of stress. As far as the hubs on the FF go, you can order the kit WITHOUT HUBS. They just "cap" it off where the hubs go. I talked to Warn about this and that's what they told me. Just my .02 worth.

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DanStew

· #6 · Nov 2, 1999

I am going to put the full floater in my Dana 44 rear end (flanged axles). I like the kit because i can unlock the hubs and flat tow my Jeep. Another reason i want the kit, is that i want to be able to access my bearings easier. Right now i have to get the puller and bang the hell out of it to come out. Living in florida means that during the summer months you drive in canals rather than trails. Everything needs to be greased up every time you go out. Thank god it is the fall and winter time.
Dan Stewart
1963 CJ5
"Caloosa Jeepers" Member

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 2, 1999

We had a long discussion on this issue on the old board, you might want to look it up. Bottom line was, I finally called Warn and got the answer from one of their techs. The issue is, yes, bending axle tubes, but that is a problem on many 20s even before the ff, if you don't have your tubes checked and staightened first, you very possibly will have problems. And, they highly recommend a truss, as was mentioned earlier, the 20s tubes are not set up to go ff. Bottom line, I would go one piece axles. The internals are very strong on a 20, marginally more so than a 44. If you are afraid of axle breakage, carry a spare.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

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Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 2, 1999

I think I would make sure you wide track twenty is not already tweaked.If you have done some moderate wheeling it could be bent and the full floater will give you (I hear) major headaches. I ran the genuine gear one piecers and they worked well.they even had a grease zerk to grease the wheel bearings. I also have installed a set of dutchmans and they install a little easier then the genuines. The 20 is a fine diff,but i had problems wearing into the metal on the tubes with my ubolts. A buddy of mine just put in a warn kit in a ford nine inch and it is a sweet system. There is also a guy selling a set of wide track axles on the pirates page. He had a dana 30 and a 44 I think he was located in chico california?

BJ

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Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 2, 1999

I installed a superior axles in my jeep this summer. The Company was great to
deal with. I was very happy with my axles BUT
I to wish it would be easyer to service the axle bearing ,by far
this is my biggest bitch.
Like CJDave the flang on the Mod 20 is thin and not fasten well to
the axle tubes. The tubes are not very thick eather[sp]
There agin I would go with the FF if I thought I could speed the
money,
/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gifCJDave you got to love 14 bolt FF. You could pile a house
ontop of them and they will still keep going /wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif

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CJDave

· #10 · Nov 2, 1999

/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif In defense of the two-piece axle for the full-float system......GM trucks, 1 ton and up to 2-1/2 ton have used a two-piece axle/hub design for years which had the axle with very large external splines...almost a gear you would say...on the hub end, and the reasoning was....if the housing got bent, the axle could float between the differential and the internal spline on the hub, since the fit was real loose and nice and greasy. There was a metal cap to keep the axle from falling out. It was a hell of a system. I have had difficulty keeping bolted axles tight because the housing was bent and the thing just "worked" endlessly, till it loosened the bolts. Those early model (heck, they might STILL use it) GM trucks could be bent like a pretzel and still work without trouble./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif So, there IS some disadvantage to a single piece flanged axle in a floater....much more critical than a non-floater, and much more suseptible to housing misalignment./wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif

CJDave

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Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 2, 1999

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the execelent input. Your comments confirmed what I wanted to do. The following is a summary of your input.

Warn Full Floater: Great kit but not the best match for the AMC 20 due to the weaker tubes.

1 Piece Axels: Unlikely to break, but you can't flat tow unless you disconnect the drive shaft.

Here is my situation....Daily driver with moderate to heavy off-roading 4-6 times a year. I don't need to tow it where I'm going....(can't afford to buy a truck to pull it)...So...I am going with the solid axles, most likely Superior. While I am at it I will check the diff to make sure the tubes are straight and I intend to do some trussing and welding....now all I have to do is find the best prices.....of course, any input on brand is welcome.

Once again, many thanks.....John

84CJ7

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Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 2, 1999

There are several good brands of 1 piece axles out there. I have Moser, but the only reason I bought them was that back in the early
90s when I installed them your choices were Moser or Summers, and Summers was twice the price. I have been happy with the
Mosers, the machine work on them made them look like a work of art.

Brad (from the 4 Wheeling center of the universe, 4 corners USA)

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